Objectively speaking, we haven't improved...

RU848789

Heisman
Jul 27, 2001
65,420
44,437
113
Sorry, until you get a QB who fits this system in here and some skill players to make plays, trying to judge the OC is useless. Patton, Tsimis, Agudosi etc aren't scaring anyone. Harris is the only weapon out wide right now that fits this system. Patton had his hands on 2 balls today that a senior with his experience should be making. You ultimately might be right, but I have no idea how you can make that call right now.

Completely agree on this point. I really like Mehringer, but without a true dual threat QB (or even a single threat QB, which we don't even have in CL, lol), the play calling really doesn't matter much. Hawk - usually love your posts, but think you're way off on this one.
 

brgRC90

Heisman
Apr 8, 2008
34,957
15,859
0
Did anyone really think a transition to a new offense, with a qb who has never shown much of anything, against a bunch of highly ranked teams, was going to be quick and easy? Lol at people complaining about coaching.
 
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RU4Real

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
50,955
30,734
0
Of course it's an overly simplistic metric. I assumed everyone knew I knew that, but maybe not.

"Vastly improved?" Seriously? Modest improvement, at best, in a couple of units (OL/DL/DBs). I do think we're better coached though, with regard to preparation and conditioning, although that's not showing much today. However, the gameday coaching with regard to TOs, clock usage and having the right calls, is marginally better (much better on penalties though).

I agree that we're not far from being competitive with all but the top 10 teams, but that has to include a much better QB and it's not clear we have that yet.

The team is definitely better than the Flood days. We have NO quarterback and no really good receivers. With Nova and Carroo this team puts 3 scores on tOSU.
 

ArminRU

Heisman
Aug 5, 2008
11,350
12,978
0
Did anyone really think a transition to a new offense, with a qb who has never shown much of anything, against a bunch of highly ranked teams, was going to be quick and easy? Lol at people complaining about coaching.

People love to play the blame game. It's so stupid, especially when everyone knows the answers.
 
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RU848789

Heisman
Jul 27, 2001
65,420
44,437
113
The team is definitely better than the Flood days. We have NO quarterback and no really good receivers. With Nova and Carroo this team puts 3 scores on tOSU.

I can agree with that. Was 56-17 2 years ago with those guys - and Carroo with 100 yards receiving. Can't say I like that we look to have let down a bit this 2nd half, even against their 2nd team. Not happy about that.
 

brgRC90

Heisman
Apr 8, 2008
34,957
15,859
0
Qb is everything in the game today. Look at how good central florida was when they had Blake Bortles and look at how crappy they have been since he left.
 

RU4Real

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
50,955
30,734
0
I can agree with that. Was 56-17 2 years ago with those guys - and Carroo with 100 yards receiving. Can't say I like that we look to have let down a bit this 2nd half, even against their 2nd team. Not happy about that.

When the game is 58-0 the first thing you have to look at are the offensive stats.

We have none.

The defense has been on the field the whole game, we've punted... what? 12 times? That's where the score comes from. It's really more a failure of the offense than the defense.
 
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RUBOB72

All-American
Aug 5, 2004
23,385
7,924
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This team is bad, but there is point in getting all worked up yet. Let's see how we do vs Illinois, Minny, IU, MD and PSU. If we can go 3-2 in those games, I'll view it as progress.
Will not happen unless we can find a QB who can actually be called a QB....the receivers and TE's are not good...the O line was ok in the beginning of the game but OSU's D is outstanding...the D just got worn down and beat up...I believe we fought hard but when you lack talent at the skill positions you will not win against those teams ....2 and 10 looks like it ...thought maybe 4 ...and possibly 5 IF Laviano improved 20 % ...I do like our young secondary guys and several of the linebackers...D line has played ok but how many minutes can you be out on the field ?... 1-2-3 and out is the recipe for blowouts.
 

RUsince52

All-Conference
Apr 3, 2016
6,821
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If you just flat out say that OSU is great, you're right. We all knew that was probably going to end up where it did. But hopefully, we show something against them. Something like 112 yds total offense and LC, 4-12 and yes some of it has to be on him. Except for Odin getting some snaps, nothing, but he did throw a few passes.
Might as well just keep switching QBs because nothing is going to disrupt continuity. Maybe someone will show up by default.
Probably more of the same next week too.
 

RU2055

All-Conference
Sep 9, 2009
3,582
1,693
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Sorry, until you get a QB who fits this system in here and some skill players to make plays, trying to judge the OC is useless. Patton, Tsimis, Agudosi etc aren't scaring anyone. Harris is the only weapon out wide right now that fits this system. Patton had his hands on 2 balls today that a senior with his experience should be making. You ultimately might be right, but I have no idea how you can make that call right now.

Shhh ...... NJHawk is one of the die hard Floodies who hates Ash and his coaches. He will keep repeating this "it's not the talent mantra" over and over again this year. Just watch.
 

RUSK97

All-American
Dec 28, 2007
10,460
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There are folks thinking this is a recruiting fixes the problem and it's not.....the concepts on offense and personnel playing or lack of creativity is beyond recruiting or lack of talent.....The thought that an incoming recruit next year will have the career or productivity of a Janarion Grant, Robert Martin or others is bizarre to even approach that as the problem. We have talent, it's poorly coached and utilized.

We have a concept or coaching problem at OC and until that is repaired or replaced, recruiting won't matter one bit.....Penn State recruits at a much better clip across the board from RU and they have no idea what they are doing either with the best back in the conference with Saquon Barkley........at some point, we have to acknowledge or it would be foolish to think what we are watching is somehow OK or that recruiting or a different QB playing fixes everything.

RU has to do something on offense different.....a poor offensive team like Northwestern has 24 points at Iowa halfway through the 3rd quarter and we scored 7 vs Iowa....it's not talent folks, even most 1-AA or FBS teams can manage a few first downs and points.
Brilliant post. Yes, our QB corps is not good and a good QB will mask the problem a bit. But DM doesn't know what he's doing.
 
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RU2055

All-Conference
Sep 9, 2009
3,582
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Edit: First half scores vs. OSU, followed by final scores...

2014: 35-7, 56-17
2015: 21-0, 49-7
2016: 30-0, 58-0

Objectively speaking, i.e., by the scores, we haven't really improved. Just looks like our defense might be a little better and our offense a little worse. We need a friggin' QB in the worst way. Will be very annoyed if we see CL in the 2nd half. Game's over, let's start playing for the future.

Objectively speaking, it's unbelievably stupid to just look at the score. We were very competitive in this game for most of the first half until the injury happened. We have a long climb back to respectability but the team right now is night and day improved from the Flood days.
 
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RUSK97

All-American
Dec 28, 2007
10,460
6,551
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The team is definitely better than the Flood days. We have NO quarterback and no really good receivers. With Nova and Carroo this team puts 3 scores on tOSU.
Sure, but Nova would also throw 3 pick sixes to match.
 

G- RUnit

All-American
Sep 13, 2004
14,380
7,978
113
Brilliant post. Yes, our QB corps is not good and a good QB will mask the problem a bit. But DM doesn't know what he's doing.

The JMU OC has not been good nor have the special teams. See improvement on D.
 

mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
55,607
51,272
0
Sorry my friend, but the halftime scores against one team across seasons is a piss-poor excuse for an objective measurement of our team's improvement. The only control variable is that it's the same team. After that, it's all uncontrolled variables (OSU's year on year team strength being a big one, injuries being another). Good luck defining OSU's relative team strength across the years you listed without the argument becoming mostly subjective.
 
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willisneverrana43

All-American
Jul 26, 2001
11,018
6,988
113
Edit: First half scores vs. OSU, followed by final scores...

2014: 35-7, 56-17
2015: 21-0, 49-7
2016: 30-0, 58-0

Objectively speaking, i.e., by the scores, we haven't really improved. Just looks like our defense might be a little better and our offense a little worse. We need a friggin' QB in the worst way. Will be very annoyed if we see CL in the 2nd half. Game's over, let's start playing for the future.
Nor should we have expected to. With each year, it became more and more of a Flood team, with this year the most so. It'll take time to swing it the other way and start bringing talent into the program again. Every year with Flood worsened the problem and the time it would take to fix it.
 
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miketd1

Heisman
Sep 26, 2006
59,714
13,916
66
If Dodd were on this roster, we're a 5 maybe 6 win team.

It's that important.
 

NBKnight

Heisman
Jul 8, 2008
24,688
15,598
61
Oh. Good lord another illegal punting formation!! Thats a problem!!! That's not a talent issue gentlemen. If this was Flood.... Hire some coaches with experience. Announcers bragging about OSU hiring "proven" guys! Do it.

The special teams coach is our most experienced coach
 

czxqa

All-American
Oct 31, 2008
8,647
6,890
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Brilliant post. Yes, our QB corps is not good and a good QB will mask the problem a bit. But DM doesn't know what he's doing.
I'm a little torn. On the one hand, I can believe you and G-money. On the other hand, I can believe Urban Meyer and Tom Herman. So hard to choose...
 
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miketd1

Heisman
Sep 26, 2006
59,714
13,916
66
Paknight: you can play single high all game against Rutgers. How can you run against an 8 man box with better talent all over the field?

QB is the great equalizer, especially in college.

I stand by my point.

We have enough talent at the skill spots to steal some points.
 

Perricone7

All-Conference
Jan 26, 2015
1,499
2,110
113
The QB and WR's are just excruciatingly bad right now. It's ugly but the good news is that RU has at least 2 stud WR's coming in next year and it looks like a stud QB too. I've seen enough improvement in discipline, the secondary and tackling to reserve judgment.
 

NBKnight

Heisman
Jul 8, 2008
24,688
15,598
61
Paknight: you can play single high all game against Rutgers. How can you run against an 8 man box with better talent all over the field?

QB is the great equalizer, especially in college.

I stand by my point.

We have enough talent at the skill spots to steal some points.

Just remembering the ND game.
 

RURod

Junior
Dec 12, 2015
284
265
0
Not much positive to game today The D played well the 1st Qr. That's about it. The offense was horrid. The kick returns were dismal (why Hicks?). And I don't get playing Oden. Obviously not ready. Are we going to see Gio again? One play, TD, then gets buried on bench.
 

miketd1

Heisman
Sep 26, 2006
59,714
13,916
66
Just remembering the ND game.
That offense asked Dodd to throw downfield.

This one is practically built for someone like Dodd who could quickly diagnose and throw short balls and screens.

But I hear you in that ND game. Not his finest 3 hours...
 

rufeelinit

All-Conference
May 16, 2010
12,647
4,351
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Its really a matter of perspective and expectations. We are in a division with Michigan, Ohio State and Michigan State. Realistically can we expect the program to bump one of those teams on a year in and year out basis? If not then we are battling PSU, Maryland and Indiana for 4th most years. I want us to get better as fast as possible. I am not inclined to settle for 4th place as our ceiling. This should not take a decade but there could be a couple of lean years after this one. It would be to nice see us overachieve and that certainly was not the case today. You may have thought we did last week but I viewed that as an opportunity lost. Our line play on both sides and our DBs look like the relative strengths of the team. I think our receivers continue to struggle to get open and our QB is subpar. Not sure how much we pin on DM for this but I think it is reasonable to expect him to try to make some adjustments in our schemes or play someone else at QB who might give the team a spark. It is clear we don't have the personnel to run this offense so do you adjust or just keep trying the same stuff despite lousy results?