OT: NL will use DH for EVER :(

[Purple Pile Driver]

It’s all an overpay. $43mm a year over three years for a pitcher who is about to turn 38 years old. Insane!

I love Mad Max, but at that price he can only be deemed a success if he leads the Mets to the Fall Classic. I guess your theory on SP will be put to the test. Sounds like they want Rodon as well. Might have the two best SP’s in the game.

Also, wtf is Texas doing? I guess they were just going to pay Siemen and Seager until it was impossible to say no. Now what. Rest of team is putrid.

 

[corbi2961]

I love Mad Max, but at that price he can only be deemed a success if he leads the Mets to the Fall Classic. I guess your theory on SP will be put to the test. Sounds like they want Rodon as well. Might have the two best SP’s in the game.

Also, wtf is Texas doing? I guess they were just going to pay Siemen and Seager until it was impossible to say no. Now what. Rest of team is putrid.

It's all crazy. The Javy Baez contract is tame in comparison but I think it's absolutely crazy to pay him that kind of money given how inconsistent and undisciplined a player he has proven himself to be. I don't blame Uncle Jerry for keeping his checkbook in his pocket but this is the market you face and have to compete in if you choose to own a MLB team.

 

[xxxbobxxx]

What are folks thinking about the length of the CBA battle? And any predictions on the issues at contest? NL DH? Expanded playoffs? Higher luxury tax? Higher salary floor?

 

[xxxbobxxx]

@chicagocatfan24 I’m thinking this thing stretches into the spring. What are you hearing? Will we have baseball before July 4th?

 

[chicagocatfan24]

@chicagocatfan24 I’m thinking this thing stretches into the spring. What are you hearing? Will we have baseball before July 4th?

Yes they're not not playing 162. Will miss some spring training but spring training doesn't need to go for 7 weeks anyways

 

[xxxbobxxx]

Yes they're not not playing 162. Will miss some spring training but spring training doesn't need to go for 7 weeks anyways

Season doesn’t need 162 either…

 

[DaCat]

Remember when baseball used to be interesting and fun? I just saw this tweet and I could name every single player off the top of my head. Anyone else?

 

[NUChicago]

Remember when baseball used to be interesting and fun? I just saw this tweet and I could name every single player off the top of my head. Anyone else?

I was close (followed the American League), but i remember tracking the home run leaders, pitching W-L, and saves every day in the Sun-Times. I explained to my kids what a card catalog was and they looked at me with a "really???" look.

 

[Alvious]

I think there will be a deal in 3-4 weeks. No games lost.

 

[AdamOnFirst]

Remember when baseball used to be interesting and fun? I just saw this tweet and I could name every single player off the top of my head. Anyone else?

Baseball is absolutely as interesting and fun as ever. Take a look at the quality of athletes playing today vs past eras. Wade Boggs would look like a fat drunk next to the elite athletes of today's game.

The game didn't get smaller, you just got bigger.

 

[DaCat]

Baseball is absolutely as interesting and fun as ever. Take a look at the quality of athletes playing today vs past eras. Wade Boggs would look like a fat drunk next to the elite athletes of today's game.

The game didn't get smaller, you just got bigger.

Steroids.

 

[AdamOnFirst]

Steroids.

Greenies! Spitballs! Spiking!

Baseball has always been a game rife with cheating. GO re-read Ball Four. Bouton finishes his chapter on greenies with an extremely prescient line to this point, elaborated further on as such:

Were you shocked and surprised at the revelation that lots of ballplayers are taking steroids?

Jim Bouton: No, not at all. How could I be surprised? In the 1970s, half of the guys in the big leagues were taking greenies, and if we had steroids, we would have taken those, too. I said in "Ball Four," 'if there was a pill that could guarantee you would win 20 games but would take five years off of your life, players would take it.' The only thing I didn't know at the time was the name.

 

[TheC]

Baseball is absolutely as interesting and fun as ever. Take a look at the quality of athletes playing today vs past eras. Wade Boggs would look like a fat drunk next to the elite athletes of today's game.

The game didn't get smaller, you just got bigger.

Not to extend this thread another 32 pages, but one thing the old man in me is not as crazy about is how important the home run has become. Strikeouts are way up as they are a more acceptable risk for the payout of the big fly. I miss the station to station baseball where you manufactured runs by getting on base and getting over. While I can go either way on whether bunting is a good strategy or not, I do wish we had more singles and doubles and runs scored due to great baserunning rather than waiting around for someone to knock it out of the park.

 

[NUCat320]

Not to extend this thread another 32 pages, but one thing the old man in me is not as crazy about is how important the home run has become. Strikeouts are way up as they are a more acceptable risk for the payout of the big fly. I miss the station to station baseball where you manufactured runs by getting on base and getting over. While I can go either way on whether bunting is a good strategy or not, I do wish we had more singles and doubles and runs scored due to great baserunning rather than waiting around for someone to knock it out of the park.

Joey Gallo has 158 home runs and 169 singles for his career, 415 total hits. Amazing! (Also, 885 strikeouts.)

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/SO_season.shtml

 

[AdamOnFirst]

Not to extend this thread another 32 pages, but one thing the old man in me is not as crazy about is how important the home run has become. Strikeouts are way up as they are a more acceptable risk for the payout of the big fly. I miss the station to station baseball where you manufactured runs by getting on base and getting over. While I can go either way on whether bunting is a good strategy or not, I do wish we had more singles and doubles and runs scored due to great baserunning rather than waiting around for someone to knock it out of the park.

Probably the only way to accomplish a return to this is A> radically dejuice the baseball to invent line drives B> nerf pitchers, likely by lowering the mound and/or other actions to avoid destroying offense in general (cut strikeouts a ton, pitcher stuff is too difficult to hit) and C> Outlaw the shift to make it actually possible to hit line drives for hits instead of having no choice but to elevate it over the shift.

 

[TheC]

Probably the only way to accomplish a return to this is A> radically dejuice the baseball to invent line drives B> nerf pitchers, likely by lowering the mound and/or other actions to avoid destroying offense in general (cut strikeouts a ton, pitcher stuff is too difficult to hit) and C> Outlaw the shift to make it actually possible to hit line drives for hits instead of having no choice but to elevate it over the shift.

The shift is one of the most infuriating new developments in baseball. It makes perfect sense and I'm amazed it took this long for teams to figure out to do it, but it has completely changed the game.

It has also altered the tv viewing experience. The most common way we take in the game is from that center field camera over the pitcher's shoulder. You would get to see the ball off the bat and could sometimes guess the outcome solely based on how it first looked. A hard ground ball or line drive past the pitcher was a hit 95% of the time. Now, it often ends up in the glove of the SS or 3B who has shifted over. I still haven't adjusted to that yet!

 

[chicagocatfan24]

The shift is one of the most infuriating new developments in baseball. It makes perfect sense and I'm amazed it took this long for teams to figure out to do it, but it has completely changed the game.

It has also altered the tv viewing experience. The most common way we take in the game is from that center field camera over the pitcher's shoulder. You would get to see the ball off the bat and could sometimes guess the outcome solely based on how it first looked. A hard ground ball or line drive past the pitcher was a hit 95% of the time. Now, it often ends up in the glove of the SS or 3B who has shifted over. I still haven't adjusted to that yet!

Teams shifted Babe Ruth. It's been around forever, it's just that it's EXTREMELY prevalent now. Take a look at this video:



Aside from the fact that it's basically the holy grail of baseball footage... they were shifting him. If the shift beats the hitter constantly, then the hitter should learn to stay inside the baseball and work opposite field.

Someone else said baseball is as entertaining as it's ever been. Though the players are better now than ever before, I disagree... the steroid era was the best era of my lifetime. I was GLUED to the TV for any given game those years. Watching a juiced up Eric Gagne throwing 100MPH fastballs to a juiced up Barry Bonds and the 1998 HR chase was must watch TV to me.

For the first time starting in the 2020 corona season, I'd think to myself "Jesus Christ, pitch the ball." I think pitchers take WAY too much time between pitches. The mound visit rule, the shot clock between innings they got, etc. haven't done a thing to speed up the game. Pitchers need to get the ball and throw the ball. Gone are the days of Mark Buehrle 1 hour and 45 min games....

 

[Troy4L]

Teams shifted Babe Ruth. It's been around forever, it's just that it's EXTREMELY prevalent now. Take a look at this video:



Aside from the fact that it's basically the holy grail of baseball footage... they were shifting him. If the shift beats the hitter constantly, then the hitter should learn to stay inside the baseball and work opposite field.

Someone else said baseball is as entertaining as it's ever been. Though the players are better now than ever before, I disagree... the steroid era was the best era of my lifetime. I was GLUED to the TV for any given game those years. Watching a juiced up Eric Gagne throwing 100MPH fastballs to a juiced up Barry Bonds and the 1998 HR chase was must watch TV to me.

For the first time starting in the 2020 corona season, I'd think to myself "Jesus Christ, pitch the ball." I think pitchers take WAY too much time between pitches. The mound visit rule, the shot clock between innings they got, etc. haven't done a thing to speed up the game. Pitchers need to get the ball and throw the ball. Gone are the days of Mark Buehrle 1 hour and 45 min games....

Pitch clock is gonna be added in the next fews years imo

 

[AdamOnFirst]

The shift is one of the most infuriating new developments in baseball. It makes perfect sense and I'm amazed it took this long for teams to figure out to do it, but it has completely changed the game.

It has also altered the tv viewing experience. The most common way we take in the game is from that center field camera over the pitcher's shoulder. You would get to see the ball off the bat and could sometimes guess the outcome solely based on how it first looked. A hard ground ball or line drive past the pitcher was a hit 95% of the time. Now, it often ends up in the glove of the SS or 3B who has shifted over. I still haven't adjusted to that yet!

I don’t personally dislike the shift. I like the modern game a lot.

 

[xxxbobxxx]

I watched the Astros beat the Sox by simply hitting the ball to open space. And legging out close plays. The home run, like the 3 pt shot in BB, can disappear for stretches. You have to be able to make the basic plays to win the game.

 

[NUCat320]

Teams shifted Babe Ruth. It's been around forever, it's just that it's EXTREMELY prevalent now. Take a look at this video:



Aside from the fact that it's basically the holy grail of baseball footage... they were shifting him. If the shift beats the hitter constantly, then the hitter should learn to stay inside the baseball and work opposite field.

Someone else said baseball is as entertaining as it's ever been. Though the players are better now than ever before, I disagree... the steroid era was the best era of my lifetime. I was GLUED to the TV for any given game those years. Watching a juiced up Eric Gagne throwing 100MPH fastballs to a juiced up Barry Bonds and the 1998 HR chase was must watch TV to me.

For the first time starting in the 2020 corona season, I'd think to myself "Jesus Christ, pitch the ball." I think pitchers take WAY too much time between pitches. The mound visit rule, the shot clock between innings they got, etc. haven't done a thing to speed up the game. Pitchers need to get the ball and throw the ball. Gone are the days of Mark Buehrle 1 hour and 45 min games....

Great Buehrle analysis.

https://grantland.com/features/mark-buehrle-surprising-success/

Dude was the best.

 

[StreamCat]

Teams shifted Babe Ruth. It's been around forever, it's just that it's EXTREMELY prevalent now. Take a look at this video:



Aside from the fact that it's basically the holy grail of baseball footage... they were shifting him. If the shift beats the hitter constantly, then the hitter should learn to stay inside the baseball and work opposite field.

Someone else said baseball is as entertaining as it's ever been. Though the players are better now than ever before, I disagree... the steroid era was the best era of my lifetime. I was GLUED to the TV for any given game those years. Watching a juiced up Eric Gagne throwing 100MPH fastballs to a juiced up Barry Bonds and the 1998 HR chase was must watch TV to me.

For the first time starting in the 2020 corona season, I'd think to myself "Jesus Christ, pitch the ball." I think pitchers take WAY too much time between pitches. The mound visit rule, the shot clock between innings they got, etc. haven't done a thing to speed up the game. Pitchers need to get the ball and throw the ball. Gone are the days of Mark Buehrle 1 hour and 45 min games....

That is still not the shift they use today. The shortstop is still on his side of 2nd base.

 

[xxxbobxxx]

That is still not the shift they use today. The shortstop is still on his side of 2nd base.

As much as everyone hates the shift, I think the blame is misplaced. Too many hitters only want to pull the ball and secure extra base hits. That's were the big money contracts come from. That problem starts at the organizational level. The Astros demonstrated that if you take what is given, you can win consistently. Every time a team moves everyone far away from third base against a left handed hitter, I wonder where is the bunt. Not a good, soft, to the grass bunt - but simply making simple, solid, non-swinging contact aimed to the left side. There is nobody there. Nobody. Base hit. Every time. Maybe a double if the hitter has speed too.

It is not sexy. Would start driving fans nuts. But if a team simply said, hit away from the shift or sit - a young team not full of stars might find success. In a copy cat world, that would force other teams to start pushing the hitting away from the shift and sacrificing power until the shift becomes less drastic.

I agree that the pitchers are dominate but not by that much. Much of the strikeout rate comes from swinging for the pull hit. Again, big risk / reward with power numbers driving paydays.

I also think speeding up the game by pitching fast only helps a team. I can't believe that more pitchers don't follow Buerhle's example. Keeps your defense interested, batters off balance, fans engaged.

 

[1060Ivy]

Bunts give away outs.

I believe your stating is that bunting against a drastic shift is what teams should do which is still a bit too simplistic.

Teams set up shifts based on historical evidence that demonstrates batter is unlikely to bunt or if there’s a better than X% chance of a bunt they’ll tether the 3rd basemen and warn pitcher of probability

 

[xxxbobxxx]

Bunts give away outs.

I believe your stating is that bunting against a drastic shift is what teams should do which is still a bit too simplistic.

Teams set up shifts based on historical evidence that demonstrates batter is unlikely to bunt or if there’s a better than X% chance of a bunt they’ll tether the 3rd basemen and warn pitcher of probability

Yes, they do. Specifically because most hitters are trying to pull the ball. Higher bat speed means contact w higher exit velocity. Few hit behind the runner or try to go the other way. And so the shift works as it plays for the pull.

If you simply push the ball the other way as lead off hitter, you get on base. Can’t really shift as effectively once base runners introduced. But if situation still allows, then push the other way again - station to station. Eventually, other team can’t shift and runners on base w no outs.

You sacrifice the home run in these early at bats. But done enough, they will lead to some runs. Eventually, teams will copy the approach and reduce their own use of the shift. But this whole premise requires team play which does not induce big contracts So… need a bad team with a bunch of non stars to employ and prove it would work.

 

[AdamOnFirst]

Bunts give away outs.

I believe your stating is that bunting against a drastic shift is what teams should do which is still a bit too simplistic.

Teams set up shifts based on historical evidence that demonstrates batter is unlikely to bunt or if there’s a better than X% chance of a bunt they’ll tether the 3rd basemen and warn pitcher of probability

The issue with bunting against the shift is bunting isn't trivially easy to do.

Bunting has been proven to be a bad idea such a high majority of the time, and it's an activity which practicing doesn't materially help career prospects, so the result of that is a lot of guys aren't very good at doing it in the scenarios where it actually make sense. It is far from simple to just lay a bunt down the line or chop it down the line at will, especially since pitchers are aware the shift is going on and are busting the players in parts of the zone where they have a hard time doing anything but pulling the ball.

Joe Mauer used to do it sometimes and it rocked, but it's not easy.

 

[xxxbobxxx]

Will hoerner even start for the cubs this year? Looks like his teammate will be a starter. Hmmmm. Wasn’t there a debate about these players at some point? Wasn’t there even a bet?

 

[Hungry Jack]

Remember when baseball used to be interesting and fun? I just saw this tweet and I could name every single player off the top of my head. Anyone else?

John “Tonight, Let it be” Lowenstein on that leader list!

 

[corbi2961]

How are our local Sox fans feeling now about the decision to non tender Rodon and pick up Kimbrel’s option?

 

[NUCat320]

Maybe we can edit the thread from ‘for 2020 season’ to ‘FOR FOREVER’.

This thread’s been around almost long enough for its velocity to recover post-Tommy John, though probably without its pre-surgery command.

Spencer Torkelson for AL ROY.

 

[Hungry Jack]

Maybe we can edit the thread from ‘for 2020 season’ to ‘FOR FOREVER’.

This thread’s been around almost long enough for its velocity to recover post-Tommy John, though probably without its pre-surgery command.

Spencer Torkelson for AL ROY.

Like Frank Tanana, it went from pure heat to junk balls in about 2 seasons

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

How are our local Sox fans feeling now about the decision to non tender Rodon and pick up Kimbrel’s option?

Not paying for Rodon, too much of an injury risk. Kimbrel is a bum, but should bring something back.

 

[chicagocatfan24]

How are our local Sox fans feeling now about the decision to non tender Rodon and pick up Kimbrel’s option?

Complete mismanagement not extending rodon a QO. Kimbrel I don't care about. I was fine bringing him back, I was fine trading him.

 

[NUCat320]

@FeralFelidae Thanks

I wonder if Tatis will get some run as DH this season. Hitting is tough on the wrist, of course.

 

[TheC]

As a Reds' fan who is watching his team enter tanking mode yet again, I am looking to officially adopt another team to root for this season. Right now, I am leaning toward the Blue Jays. Anyone want to argue for others? (Note: I ain't rooting for the Cubs or Cards, so that will save some of you some time)

 

[NUCat320]

As a Reds' fan who is watching his team enter tanking mode yet again, I am looking to officially adopt another team to root for this season. Right now, I am leaning toward the Blue Jays. Anyone want to argue for others? (Note: I ain't rooting for the Cubs or Cards, so that will save some of you some time)

Get in on the ground floor of the Tigers.

- Young pitching with some promise demonstrated in ‘21 (Mize, Skubal, Manning). Skubal is a TTO pitcher, whiffs and walks and whams.

- Exciting potential rookies in Riley Greene and Spencer Torkelson.

- Strange as heck story in Jonathan Schoop’s conversation from shortstop to overpaid power hitting first baseman.

- Good manager in Hinch, with a willingness to optimize his roster.

- Javy Baez is fun to watch and a bit wacky.

- Good baseball town.

- You can enjoy it when they beat the Guardians, whom you no doubt despise (an in-state rival thing, I presume).

Man, is it true that the Reds tried for one year, or for two?

 

[TheC]

Get in on the ground floor of the Tigers.

- Young pitching with some promise demonstrated in ‘21 (Mize, Skubal, Manning). Skubal is a TTO pitcher, whiffs and walks and whams.

- Exciting potential rookies in Riley Greene and Spencer Torkelson.

- Strange as heck story in Jonathan Schoop’s conversation from shortstop to overpaid power hitting first baseman.

- Good manager in Hinch, with a willingness to optimize his roster.

- Javy Baez is fun to watch and a bit wacky.

- Good baseball town.

- You can enjoy it when they beat the Guardians, whom you no doubt despise (an in-state rival thing, I presume).

Man, is it true that the Reds tried for one year, or for two?

I thought about the Tigers, simply because both my boys are in Michigan now and that is the team they could go watch. Both boys, sadly, are Reds fans. They had a bad upbringing.

But I want a team that will win this year. Are the Tigers really ready to compete? If I'm going to be a bandwagon fan, then I don't want to suffer more losing. I can do that with my own teams.

The Reds did make sort of an attempt to spend some money and make a run in 2020, then the whole world shut down and the cheapskate owner probably felt totally burned.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I thought about the Tigers, simply because both my boys are in Michigan now and that is the team they could go watch. Both boys, sadly, are Reds fans. They had a bad upbringing.

But I want a team that will win this year. Are the Tigers really ready to compete? If I'm going to be a bandwagon fan, then I don't want to suffer more losing. I can do that with my own teams.

The Reds did make sort of an attempt to spend some money and make a run in 2020, then the whole world shut down and the cheapskate owner probably felt totally burned.

Tigers are the best team in their division not named the White Sox.

 

[chicagocatfan24]

Get in on the ground floor of the Tigers.

- Young pitching with some promise demonstrated in ‘21 (Mize, Skubal, Manning). Skubal is a TTO pitcher, whiffs and walks and whams.

- Exciting potential rookies in Riley Greene and Spencer Torkelson.

- Strange as heck story in Jonathan Schoop’s conversation from shortstop to overpaid power hitting first baseman.

- Good manager in Hinch, with a willingness to optimize his roster.

- Javy Baez is fun to watch and a bit wacky.

- Good baseball town.

- You can enjoy it when they beat the Guardians, whom you no doubt despise (an in-state rival thing, I presume).

Man, is it true that the Reds tried for one year, or for two?

The tigers are gonna be real bastards this year. I think around 80 wins, but next year look out. The youth they have is awesome. Torkelson is going to be a star. Watching him and Vaughn duke it out for 1B supremacy in the AL central is gonna be really fun for the next decade

 

[xxxbobxxx]

How are our local Sox fans feeling now about the decision to non tender Rodon and pick up Kimbrel’s option?

Feeling good. I am very curious to see how Rodon does this season. As for Kimbrel, same.