If the Cat's win out and they could certainly do so, their record would be 10 and 2. That would make them on a par with the 95 team although the 95 squad played one less regular season game. I think this really a rhetorical question but which team do you think is better. I would say the 95 team because the receivers, kickers, quarterback and even the back (Autry) were all better. The defense I would say is a draw. Can you make a case for this years team though?
Something to ponder
- Thread starter mybrotha
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Can't say that I can, mybro. Not that it isn't close enough for this point to be legitimately debated, but a couple of reasons come to mind. First, the schedule we went through in '95 was probably tougher than what we had this year. I don't recall what their record was, but I believe Penn State was a stronger team in '95 than they are today (and in '95 we beat them a bit more decisively as well). IMO, the '95 wins at ND and at Michigan were at least the equivalent of this year's Stanford win at home. Also, both years featured strong Iowa teams, and the results of our games with them could hardly be more different. Then, too - as much as I like our current defense - I'd posit that the '95 defense was the best in school history. Gonna be a few years 'til Northwestern leads the nation is scoring defense again. Lastly, in looking at the respective individual units, most are fairly comparable . . . yet in the ones that DO show an edge, that edge tends to go toward the '95 team. I'd say that the freshman version of Thorson is roughly as effective as the junior version of Steve Schnur (though each in their own way). This year's team is certainly deeper in the backfield than the '95 outfit, but it'd be pretty tough to sit Darnell Autry very much, even for JJ. I'd say our OL was better in '95 than the current version, too (even if not by a landslide). Most would probably agree that our strongest position group this year is our DB's, but the '95 group is, to me, the group by which all future NU defensive backfields will be measured. And individually, in addition to Autry, there are a number of other positions at which we had someone in '95 who was better than any of their current counterparts (i.e., Bates, Fitz), and other than John Kidd, Paul Burton was our best punter in the modern era. I like Jack Mitchell, but it'd be hard to take him over the Valenzisi/Gowins combo. And staying with special teams, it's probably fair to call it a wash between Brian Musso and Shuler/Vault on punt returns. Although Musso is probably my all-time favorite Wildcat, the explosive potential of our current pair shouldn't be shortchanged. Pretty sure we'll see some other interesting observations in this thread . . .
NU rose bowl...I'd agree on everything but two areas. First Brian Musso I think was much better than Shuler on punt returns. Musso as I remember didn't return kicks because Ismaeli was the guy there. I'd give the edge to kick off returns to Vault but punts definitely go to Musso. Btw I'm a huge Musso fan as well. As for the secondary I have to disagree there as well. VanHoose and Harris to me are a notch better than Ray and I can't remember the other corner. I think both VanHoose and Harris will play on Sunday's. Godwin is very good and Henry is a beast. Everywhere else I would agree and I think Shnur in 95 was definitely better than Thorson this year. However, Steve had a better O line as you pointed out and MUCH better receivers to throw to.
the 95 team would kick this team just like iowa. this team better be careful who they play in a bowl at 10-2. our offense is awful against decent comp. A bowl could be quite embarrassing.
Seriously? And you wonder why it seems difficult for NU to build excitement around the program?
At first I felt like there is no comparison. The 95 team were champions and we will not even be champions of the west. The 95 team D was best in the nation; can't touch that.
but just for conversations sake,
If this team wins out (not likely) and ends up 11 and 2 (bowl win), they will have played 4 games we cannot yet judge. In my fantasy NU dreamland, the D continues to be dominant and we win 4 more games because the O comes together. Four solid wins would change my impression of this year's team. It would also change some of the statistics, The D might shut out a couple of more teams, JJ might rush for 800 yards over 4 games, Thorson might go on a tear and complete 75% of his passes over four games; break some other kind of one game records, Vault runs back 3 more kickoffs; sets a record.
Thing is, if they win out it will be for a reason and they would look more impressive at the end than they look now.
If I met my wife when I was 15 and she was 12, she would have been taller, I'm 4 inches taller now.
Respectfully disagree. The 1995 team, irrespective of the final record of the 2015 team, was just flat out better. Records aside, the old "eye test" tells me the 1995 Cats were better on offense and defense. The only possible place the 2015 edition excelled was at kick-off returns.
Just for grins I watched the 1995 game vs. Penn State again. That was a great defensive performance.
We are in a very different era, but the 1995 team was better. Much more physical with more playmakers.
We are in a very different era, but the 1995 team was better. Much more physical with more playmakers.
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why wouldnt i be serious?
look, if you think this team would have a chance against the 1995 team then thats your opinion. 1995 beat a much better iowa and michigan team. in the meantime say hello tothe Easter Bunny for me.
Disclaimer - perhaps this team has players with hight vertical leaps, 40 times etc. But relative to competition, it is not close. That team dominated defensively until they ran into K Johnson. We were ranked #3 in the country going into the rose bowl.
I really respect JJ and I think Thor will do great things, but now they are like the soph Schnur and Soph Autry.
The DBs on that team were amazing. Ismaeli couldnt crack the lineup.
Kicker punter punt return OL even WR not close. DL and LB were some our best players ever.
This team at 11-2 might not be better than 2012 or 2008
I really respect JJ and I think Thor will do great things, but now they are like the soph Schnur and Soph Autry.
The DBs on that team were amazing. Ismaeli couldnt crack the lineup.
Kicker punter punt return OL even WR not close. DL and LB were some our best players ever.
This team at 11-2 might not be better than 2012 or 2008
I agree with Deering.
While meaning no disrespect to the 1995 team, the 2015 squad has four games remaining, and hopefully they will do amazing things. I think you have to let the season run its course until a definitive judgment can be made.
Wow, cranky Turk this morning. I would say for sure 95 and 96 were better but just for fun who from the 2015 team would start on the 95 team. Van Hoose and Harris for sure. I think Walker (sorry Fitz), Lowery is better than Rice or Dailey (Rice still my favorite Wildcat though) Vitale would start on the 95 team even if it was at fullback (love and miss me some Matt Hartl). I honestly think Jackson is better than Autry but Autry had a much better o-line (sorry if that is heresy for some) The receiver group, ugh 2015, Bates and Musso were very good. Schnur made plays when we needed them through the air, Thorson has made plays with his feet but he is not there yet overall. In terms of outside backers and interior D-line I do not have a strong opinion either way, someone help me out!
No way. The 1995 team was ranked #3 in the nation. They were B1G champs. Our offense could pass the ball.
We'd also have to win a bowl game against a Power 5 conference champion.
It's not even close.
1996 team was strong offensively. Defense probably wasn't as good as this year's team.
Interesting post. The strength of 2015 is the defense, but 1995/6 were our best ever.
I would take basically the entire 95 offense over the 2015 offense. Thor may one day be the best QB to play at NU (I hope) but he's obviously not there yet.
I think 95/96 Fitz clearly was better than 2015 Anthony Walker. When Walker is a junior/senior and becomes All-American and national defensive player of the year (twice) then we can talk.
Lowry would've started in 95 at DE. But Rice still starts in the interior. :/
Corners are even, though I think Matt Harris is outstanding and probably would've started in 95.
Musso is the better punt returner, though I like Shuler a lot back there too. Vault is the better kick returner.
My opinion is that the 1995 team is clearly better and stated as such on this very thread. My reaction was more to your insistent pessimism, then wondering why it's difficult for people to get excited about the program.
Ok, I'll play and make the case. The 1995 team was better vs 1995 teams than the 2015 team is vs 2015 teams. That is almost un-debatable. However over the course of the last 20 years, the game has evolved. Training methods have evolved. We have a nutritionist. The products companies make as far as weight gainer, recovery drinks, protein... are better too. As such, I would say the current team is most likely stronger and faster than the 1995 team. Teams also have far superior technology available to them. Instead of splicing film together, coaches are able to put a series of plays together on an app. Players can slow it down, rewind... They can take tablets on the bus to games. Coaches break down film riding home from the games. High school coaching has also gotten a lot better with game planning and scheme. As such, kids are starting from a higher level than they were 20 years ago. In other words, today's players have more knowledge than they did 20 years ago.
The actual game of football has changed too. Spread offenses came in. This caused a lot of reshuffling of how offenses and defenses are composed. You need a lot more speed in today's game, especially at the linebacker position. As great as Fitz was, I believe he would be too slow to play linebacker in today's game.
I would argue if you line up a top 40 2015 team, they would beat the crap out a top 10 1995 team.
The actual game of football has changed too. Spread offenses came in. This caused a lot of reshuffling of how offenses and defenses are composed. You need a lot more speed in today's game, especially at the linebacker position. As great as Fitz was, I believe he would be too slow to play linebacker in today's game.
I would argue if you line up a top 40 2015 team, they would beat the crap out a top 10 1995 team.
I really respect JJ and I think Thor will do great things, but now they are like the soph Schnur and Soph Autry.
That's high praise. Autry was a soph in 1995. He finished in the top five for Heisman that year.
That's high praise. Autry was a soph in 1995. He finished in the top five for Heisman that year.
Not even close. The D is very good and probably more athletic, but got totally gashed against MI and IA. The O is way too inconsistent - no clutch WR a la Bates and Musso, and less consistent running game a la DA1 rushing for 100+ yards every game.
That actually kinda makes sense to me. I'd love to hear what MRCAT has to say about that though.
Well, sure they would - those '95 guys are on the other side of 40, fer Chrissakes!
Pfffffffft. I think Matt Rice was lucky to play D1 ball. He must have had pictures of Barnett French kissing a mule.
Rice only got penetration behind the LOS because he smelled terrible, like a skunk ape. Opposing linemen were gasping for air by the time the QB finished the play call. If the QB audibled, the lineman would pass out and fall forward, at which point Rice would step aside, do a little swim move, and then go after the ball.
Funny thing is, Rice would have been drafted had it not been for a Michigan lineman tipping off NFL scouts. He basically said, don't let Rice into the locker room. There is not enough Bon Ami and Lysol on the planet to get that stench off him. The Michigan lineman, unlike most Michigan players, was smart. He knew about Rice's block-destroying odor, and doused himself with Old Spice before the game, negating the fumes emanating from Rice's jersey. I think he held Rice to 3 TFLs and only 2 guard asphyxiations that day.
Yeah, that Rice guy. What a character.
At the end of the day, you still have to strap it on and play the game on the field. Fitz may be too slow to play today's game, but he was too slow to play in 1995 too. It was his brains, instincts, and toughness that set him apart from the Kevin Hardy's of the world and allowed him to be recognized as the best college defensive player in the country... two years in a row.
Yes, Fitz was great, smart, instinctive.... all that stuff. He would be told to put on weight and play DE in todays game or told to lose 15 lbs and hopefully speed up. I don't see Fitz running with slot receivers like Mike Dudek (when healthy). Fitz was incredible in 1995. The game has changed.