DOJ has not found fraud that would reverse Biden win over Trump, Attorney General William Barr says

mule_eer

Freshman
May 6, 2002
20,439
59
48
Sorry for your loss, but the ACA is the opposite of personal responsibility. The ACA is the expansion of Medicaid, as the exchanges were a just a little part of the ACA...everything they touched was a failure....insurance companies got paid, Pharma sold more drugs... They promised preventive care, but that was the 1st thing went out the window. everyone with decent health insurance paid 40% more for people who continue to use the ED as a primary care doctor...healthcare went backwards.
Thanks. It was a shock, and my wife is still a little messed up by it with the holiday season upon us. Her dad was a big Christmas guy - went all out decorating, getting lots of family time together, etc.

I think you make a fair point about he Medicaid part of ACA. I think the basic idea is to legislate responsibility though. I'm not trying to champion that as the final solution (not that final solution Coop), but I think the basic tenant is at least a start. A good argument can be made that some of the plan restrictions were too aggressive. The initial implementation was garbage. It has a lot of flaws. I think the root of it is personal responsibility though.
 

mule_eer

Freshman
May 6, 2002
20,439
59
48
what the hell is wrong with you...this is why the US is divided...
I was kind of surprised the late-term abortion ban didn't pass in CO. Maybe I'm in a bubble in a more conservative area of the state, but the proposal was to place a soft ban at 22 weeks, anything after had to be to protect the life of the mother. I thought it was a reasonable proposal, but it was shot down, and the vote wasn't too close.
 

oceantide83

Redshirt
Jan 6, 2005
12,637
20
0
Explain to me how the ACA isn't about personal responsibility? You must pay for health insurance so that the state and other consumers don't have to eat the cost of the care you can't pay for.

With respect to your personal responsibility argument, my FIL died this summer. He was in his late 50's, no sign of any health issues. He was recently retired, more active than your average 25-year old, exercising every day. He didn't smoke, didn't drink, and was only a couple of years removed from running half marathons. He had a massive heart attack and died a few minutes after walking into the house to eat lunch. What about a kid born with a congenital heart defect? What about a kid who develops type I diabetes? What about a family that gets into a bad car accident that is someone else's fault? Those aren't a lack of personal responsibility. Those are just bad luck. Some of those have medical costs that are enough to bankrupt most people.
I don't know why you're bringing up the ACA with regards to my argument about people needing to take personal responsibility for their own health. That should be the case regardless of if there were an ACA or not. Take care of your own health so you don't have to visit the doctor. Common sense. If EVERYBODY did this, then healthcare costs would go down dramatically. Of course there are people who can't do anything about certain health issues and those aren't the ones I'm referring to. I'm referring to everybody who CAN take personal responsibility for their health. America is the most obese country on earth. You can't tell me that the majority of people couldn't take much better care of themselves than they currently do. Most people do not have health issues they can't do anything about.
 

NYC_Eer

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2010
10,631
48
0
did not read...but this is like trying to prove that the mob was a legit crime organization... maybe we need to get serious and bring a RICO mentality into the fold. I do agree it won't be proven but moving forward our elections should be taken seriously in the blue states.
Nevada, Georgia, Wisconsin, Arizona and Michigan are blue states?
 

Pospecteer

All-Conference
Dec 8, 2006
36,502
3,161
113
Thanks. It was a shock, and my wife is still a little messed up by it with the holiday season upon us. Her dad was a big Christmas guy - went all out decorating, getting lots of family time together, etc.

I think you make a fair point about he Medicaid part of ACA. I think the basic idea is to legislate responsibility though. I'm not trying to champion that as the final solution (not that final solution Coop), but I think the basic tenant is at least a start. A good argument can be made that some of the plan restrictions were too aggressive. The initial implementation was garbage. It has a lot of flaws. I think the root of it is personal responsibility though.

I lived through this at my old job. They talked a mean game of preventive medicine, working with patients to educate them and all things proactive. My company (big Pharma) was at the table and it expanded their patient population which increased profits. Our marketing teams geared up for better patient education and then it all fell apart. We cut 30% of our workforce, make more money and expanded our patient mix...my insurance went up 40% with major reductions in reimbursement. My sister who got medicaid had 10X the insurance I had and I was making much more than the avg citizen.
 

oceantide83

Redshirt
Jan 6, 2005
12,637
20
0
False argument.....businesses have continued to raise prices and automate their businesses while the minimum wage has stayed low. I am one that is willing to pay more if it makes peoples lives better.
You are willing to pay more but what about those people who get paid higher minimum wages but have to pay higher prices for goods and services now?
 

wvjeff

Freshman
Dec 10, 2007
2,689
64
48
You are willing to pay more but what about those people who get paid higher minimum wages but have to pay higher prices for goods and services now?
I make 4 times the minimum wage.....a loaf of bread costs me 2 dollars and costs someone that makes minimum wage it costs them 2 dollars.What is your point?
 

Pospecteer

All-Conference
Dec 8, 2006
36,502
3,161
113
Nevada, Georgia, Wisconsin, Arizona and Michigan are blue states?

have you ever heard that politics is local...and everything is local? 95% of the issues are in the inner cities of those states...it's pretty easy to look at a map and understand how easy it is to cheat in a densely populated area.

It's funny that in Philly they had a majority mail in ballots in an area where most don't even have physical addresses...yet in rural areas, people who use mail services elected to do it in person....please explain that.
 

Pospecteer

All-Conference
Dec 8, 2006
36,502
3,161
113
I make 4 times the minimum wage.....a loaf of bread costs me 2 dollars and costs someone that makes minimum wage it costs them 2 dollars.What is your point?

the point is you're poor and most likely on Medicaid.
 

oceantide83

Redshirt
Jan 6, 2005
12,637
20
0
again.....your argument of protect them in the womb and **** em when they are born shows just how pathetic republicans are.......a two year old goes hungry because mom and dad are lazy and you see that as "personal responsibility" silliest **** I have ever heard.
Yes, personal responsibility. Stop fornicating, stop having unprotected sex with your spouse, if you don't want to potentially have a child to support and take care of. Don't murder a child for the sake of convenience. How sick is that? Those who support abortion are no better than Hitler.
 

oceantide83

Redshirt
Jan 6, 2005
12,637
20
0
I make 4 times the minimum wage.....a loaf of bread costs me 2 dollars and costs someone that makes minimum wage it costs them 2 dollars.What is your point?
 

DvlDog4WVU

All-Conference
Feb 2, 2008
47,242
3,304
113
honest question DvlDog, don't you think if there was fraud like you list that it would be easy to prove? Trumps legal team has now been in court 40 times and are 1-39 and many of them have been in front of GOP appointed judges and some that were appointed by Trump.

If you read some of the legal proceedings, I know in at least two of them the judge specifically asks if they are alleging fraud and the attorneys say "no". So, in public they are saying there are all kinds of fraud but in a court of law where they can be disbarred for lying, they are honest and say no.

It just seems to me if all of these allegations they are throwing out are true, they should be easy to prove. And affidavits where people say things like, "I saw something that looked shady", are not credible.
I haven’t read the legal briefs that have been submitted. Why wouldn’t they be easy to prove? That’s pretty simple. It requires the State election boards to coordinate with each other validate it. Moreover, fraud would be an admission of failure on the part of the Secretaries of State. They’d effectively be acknowledging they failed at one their primary responsibilities. I’ll break them down:

“Signature matching issues, double voting in surrounding states, dead people voting, ballot harvesting, and a slew of other irregularities.”

You can’t honestly say the voter rolls are up to date. With mass mail-in voting, that alone introduces fraud. There is no way to know who is actually casting the vote. It introduces the opportunity for ballot harvesting and there is no way to really catch that. I know for 100% certainty that my best friend received ballots for 3 states, FL, TX, and MD because he showed me. How they found him in MD is beyond my understanding. Another friend also received ballots from TX and MD. There is no way to validate if he voted in all three or two, respectively, because of the voter rolls. The states, because they’re responsible for conducting their elections and establishing the security of them, but they’d either have to A. Collectively coordinate, or B. Actually look. In either case, they don’t have the resources to do it nor did they. Trump’s legal team has to use the publicly available information to base their lawsuits on or whistleblowers. They’ve allegedly found issues of double voting. That covers ballot harvesting and fraudulent voting.

Dead people voting, back to the voter rolls.

Signature matching: We actually saw the state of PA blocking this ability. How do you challenge ballot signatures from 5-10 feet away? Look at the statistical data coming out of GA on previous elections and this one? They’re statistically light years a part with this one being down. If the state poll watchers, any state for that matter, wasn’t able to do signature matching due to the COVID restrictions, how can we say for certain that ballot harvesting didn’t occur?

The mass unsolicited mail-in voting introduced massive fraud opportunity. Anyone saying it didn’t is a fool. Period.

You’re just going to convince me that that many people voted for Biden when Trump made gains in all but one of 40 key election prediction markers. Minority support, blue collar, specific counties, etc. No doubt he lost ground with suburban women, not to that level. Not to mention that he eclipsed Obama’s record setting vote, and Biden beat him still by however many million? Pffft.

There are a lot of software related irregularities that are worth investigating and a ton of people with sworn affidavits.

Back to the state canvassing and recounts, all they’re doing is re-validating what they already had. Garbage In Garbage Out. They weren’t challenging or attempting to validate the claims Trump’s team has been making.

So, unless Sidney Powell’s lawsuits go somewhere, it’s all over but the crying. I’d just really like to see Voter ID, and if that meant creating transportation vouchers to the DMV for the urban people and olds to get it, fine. Give them a full 2 year election cycle to get their IDs, if they don’t by then? Tough ****. 1 party wants them, the other doesn’t. We all know why.
 

DvlDog4WVU

All-Conference
Feb 2, 2008
47,242
3,304
113
I make 4 times the minimum wage.....a loaf of bread costs me 2 dollars and costs someone that makes minimum wage it costs them 2 dollars.What is your point?
Are you a Bernie supporter, do you just hate small businesses or just ignorant of how money works?

We’ve already seen the $15 minimum wage have negative impacts, killing both businesses and jobs. If you raise the minimum wage, the prices for the goods goes up in order for the business to maintain their margins. In the case small businesses, they don’t operate on the kind of margin or have the base to absorb it.
 

wvjeff

Freshman
Dec 10, 2007
2,689
64
48
Are you a Bernie supporter, do you just hate small businesses or just ignorant of how money works?

We’ve already seen the $15 minimum wage have negative impacts, killing both businesses and jobs. If you raise the minimum wage, the prices for the goods goes up in order for the business to maintain their margins. In the case small businesses, they don’t operate on the kind of margin or have the base to absorb it.
again.....businesses continue to raise prices and automate their businesses while paying minimum wage.....so ignorance would be that portion of your argument.
 

wvjeff

Freshman
Dec 10, 2007
2,689
64
48
Yes, personal responsibility. Stop fornicating, stop having unprotected sex with your spouse, if you don't want to potentially have a child to support and take care of. Don't murder a child for the sake of convenience. How sick is that? Those who support abortion are no better than Hitler.
those who want them to starve and be sick are no better than hitler.
 

Airport

All-American
Dec 12, 2001
86,320
7,052
113
again.....businesses continue to raise prices and automate their businesses while paying minimum wage.....so ignorance would be that portion of your argument.
Business are there to make money. People without any skills are at the mercy of businesses viability to hire them. If their skill level is $8/hr and the business is mandated to pay $15, they won't hire that person.
 

Mntneer

Sophomore
Oct 7, 2001
10,192
196
0
Prove it and punish the convicted.

This is not what Trump and his legal Dream Team are saying.

Proving it is almost impossible. We all know elections are bought, hell we're from WV after all, and we all know that parties will try bending and breaking the rules when and where they can. Was it enough to give Biden the WH? Is it possible that groups used mail in voting as a way to harness votes from people who would have otherwise not voted? I certainly think so. But, it's impossible to prove, so at this point people just need to accept it and move on.
 

DvlDog4WVU

All-Conference
Feb 2, 2008
47,242
3,304
113
again.....businesses continue to raise prices and automate their businesses while paying minimum wage.....so ignorance would be that portion of your argument.
You don’t understand supply chains, I see.
 

DvlDog4WVU

All-Conference
Feb 2, 2008
47,242
3,304
113
those who want them to starve and be sick are no better than hitler.
Again, a $15 minimum wage is going to put more of them out of work and increase a push for automation. Then, you’ll next be talking about a living stipend. All because of poor decisions by that of the parents starting long before the decision to **** without a rubber or birth control. So now, they’re our responsibility to raise? They’re foregoing their parental responsibilities, can we take the children?
 

DvlDog4WVU

All-Conference
Feb 2, 2008
47,242
3,304
113
i do understand excuses and corporate greed.
Yep, Bernie supporter. Corporate greed. Hahahaa, they employ people. Good luck on calling small businesses greedy. They barely get by, and they’re our biggest employment block. Also, the ones that you’re advocating putting out of business.
 

wvjeff

Freshman
Dec 10, 2007
2,689
64
48
Yep, Bernie supporter. Corporate greed. Hahahaa, they employ people. Good luck on calling small businesses greedy. They barely get by, and they’re our biggest employment block. Also, the ones that you’re advocating putting out of business.
they are greedy......I probably wouldn't feel that way if they at least had the decency to pay taxes. I work for a billion dollar company that paid slightly under the 21% but the businesses need to cough it up.
 

Mntneer

Sophomore
Oct 7, 2001
10,192
196
0
i do understand excuses and corporate greed.

Ever try to run a business? Even the 17 year old kid in my house makes more than minimum wage... working FAST FOOD. So who are you kidding with this minimum wage argument? I bet you're one of those types that gets on Facebook and blasts people for using the self check out lines at a grocery store.
 

wvjeff

Freshman
Dec 10, 2007
2,689
64
48
Yep, Bernie supporter. Corporate greed. Hahahaa, they employ people. Good luck on calling small businesses greedy. They barely get by, and they’re our biggest employment block. Also, the ones that you’re advocating putting out of business.
yep Trump supporter there are greedy businesses whether you acknowledge it or not. Just like there is a finished election whether you acknowledge it or not.
 

wvjeff

Freshman
Dec 10, 2007
2,689
64
48
Ever try to run a business? Even the 17 year old kid in my house makes more than minimum wage... working FAST FOOD. So who are you kidding with this minimum wage argument? I bet you're one of those types that gets on Facebook and blasts people for using the self check out lines at a grocery store.
not at all...people are free to do what they want.
 

DvlDog4WVU

All-Conference
Feb 2, 2008
47,242
3,304
113
yep Trump supporter there are greedy businesses whether you acknowledge it or not. Just like there is a finished election whether you acknowledge it or not.
Define greed? Dumbest argument ever. I bet your company is publicly traded, isn’t it? Ever make the connection to their stock price and shareholders, 401ks? Etc? Keep posting, you’re proving what a moron you are for everyone to see. Billion dollar businesses aren’t small businesses. Again, you’re taking about crippling our largest employer base.

The people subject to minimum wage? Why are they there? They failed in their lives by their own choosing and decision making.
 

wvjeff

Freshman
Dec 10, 2007
2,689
64
48
Define greed? Dumbest argument ever. I bet your company is publicly traded, isn’t it? Ever make the connection to their stock price and shareholders, 401ks? Etc? Keep posting, you’re proving what a moron you are for everyone to see. Billion dollar businesses aren’t small businesses. Again, you’re taking about crippling our largest employer base.

The people subject to minimum wage? Why are they there? They failed in their lives by their own choosing and decision making.
businesses need to pay taxes....the argument that they employ people is ignorant....pay taxes. You are definitely showing that you are a moron.......if the tax rate is 21% businesses should be paying that. Since you don't know the definition of greed...uncontrolled longing for increase in the acquisition or use: of material gain (be it food, money, land, or animate/inanimate possessions. So yes, companies that don't pay taxes. don't pay their workers and raise their prices.....exactly fits that definition.
 

oceantide83

Redshirt
Jan 6, 2005
12,637
20
0
those who want them to starve and be sick are no better than hitler.
... if you're trying to take a jab at me with that one, I never said I wanted them to starve and be sick, so WRONG again. I want parents who WANT children to have children. I do not want two irresponsible people participating in risky behavior to have a child they DON'T WANT. That is why I preach personal responsibility. If you don't want a child, then don't participate in activities that would lead to having one. Not a hard concept to understand for those with comprehension skills.
 

DvlDog4WVU

All-Conference
Feb 2, 2008
47,242
3,304
113
businesses need to pay taxes....the argument that they employ people is ignorant....pay taxes. You are definitely showing that you are a moron.......if the tax rate is 21% businesses should be paying that. Since you don't know the definition of greed...uncontrolled longing for increase in the acquisition or use: of material gain (be it food, money, land, or animate/inanimate possessions. So yes, companies that don't pay taxes. don't pay their workers and raise their prices.....exactly fits that definition.
Are you basing the 21% on gross earnings or net? Factoring in any itemized operating expenses? Let’s put it to a very simple scenario.

Let’s say I own a charter fishing business. I charge $2500 a day for my charter 160 days a year bringing my revenue to $400k. Is that what you think I should be paying 21% on?

Now, what if I told you that my daily operating costs were $1500 for fuel, bait, ice, and food? That leaves $1000 a charter. My $400k just went to $160k. Pay a Captain, $60k . Down to $100k. Figure half of that for dock fees, insurance, and MX costs for the boat and tackle.

$50k, is that what I should be paying 21% on?

Now extrapolate that out to large businesses. They’re reducing their corporate taxes by internal investments. The entity, if you think about it is paying a lot of taxes. All of the people they’re employing are paying income taxes. The CEOs turning profits (taxes) for their shareholders (taxes), your 401k (taxed when you retire), and oh, providing healthcare? All services these evil corporations are providing.

You people are dangerous to this country.
 

wvjeff

Freshman
Dec 10, 2007
2,689
64
48
Are you basing the 21% on gross earnings or net? Factoring in any itemized operating expenses? Let’s put it to a very simple scenario.

Let’s say I own a charter fishing business. I charge $2500 a day for my charter 160 days a year bringing my revenue to $400k. Is that what you think I should be paying 21% on?

Now, what if I told you that my daily operating costs were $1500 for fuel, bait, ice, and food? That leaves $1000 a charter. My $400k just went to $160k. Pay a Captain, $60k . Down to $100k. Figure half of that for dock fees, insurance, and MX costs for the boat and tackle.

$50k, is that what I should be paying 21% on?

Now extrapolate that out to large businesses. They’re reducing their corporate taxes by internal investments. The entity, if you think about it is paying a lot of taxes. All of the people they’re employing are paying income taxes. The CEOs turning profits (taxes) for their shareholders (taxes), your 401k (taxed when you retire), and oh, providing healthcare? All services these evil corporations are providing.

You people are dangerous to this country.
net is fine.....but you have companies that aren't paying that.
 

wvjeff

Freshman
Dec 10, 2007
2,689
64
48
Are you basing the 21% on gross earnings or net? Factoring in any itemized operating expenses? Let’s put it to a very simple scenario.

Let’s say I own a charter fishing business. I charge $2500 a day for my charter 160 days a year bringing my revenue to $400k. Is that what you think I should be paying 21% on?

Now, what if I told you that my daily operating costs were $1500 for fuel, bait, ice, and food? That leaves $1000 a charter. My $400k just went to $160k. Pay a Captain, $60k . Down to $100k. Figure half of that for dock fees, insurance, and MX costs for the boat and tackle.

$50k, is that what I should be paying 21% on?

Now extrapolate that out to large businesses. They’re reducing their corporate taxes by internal investments. The entity, if you think about it is paying a lot of taxes. All of the people they’re employing are paying income taxes. The CEOs turning profits (taxes) for their shareholders (taxes), your 401k (taxed when you retire), and oh, providing healthcare? All services these evil corporations are providing.

You people are dangerous to this country.
again.....excuses......you make a 1 billion net profit and pay no federal income tax is a good thing......********. But let the government provide something free to a needy person and people lose their mind,,,,,lol.
 

oceantide83

Redshirt
Jan 6, 2005
12,637
20
0
again.....excuses......you make a 1 billion net profit and pay no federal income tax is a good thing......********. But let the government provide something free to a needy person and people lose their mind,,,,,lol.
Why do you assume it has to be the government that has to help the needy?
 

DvlDog4WVU

All-Conference
Feb 2, 2008
47,242
3,304
113
again.....excuses......you make a 1 billion net profit and pay no federal income tax is a good thing......********. But let the government provide something free to a needy person and people lose their mind,,,,,lol.
The Government is not a thing. It’s us. The great society failed, miserably. We have almost 60 years of data to back it up. Here you are with a “hold my beer”.

Socialism failed and your logic is that it failed because we didn’t have enough. So, add more socialism, that’ll fix it! And when you put more on the dole because you kill small business? UBI to the rescue!! More socialism!! It’s absurdly illogical. You think you’re fixing a problem, which is admirable, but you and the rest of the Utopian Bernie Bots are morons because you don’t understand the downstream impacts of your stupidity.
 

wvjeff

Freshman
Dec 10, 2007
2,689
64
48
The Government is not a thing. It’s us. The great society failed, miserably. We have almost 60 years of data to back it up. Here you are with a “hold my beer”.

Socialism failed and your logic is that it failed because we didn’t have enough. So, add more socialism, that’ll fix it! And when you put more on the dole because you kill small business? UBI to the rescue!! More socialism!! It’s absurdly illogical. You think you’re fixing a problem, which is admirable, but you and the rest of the Utopian Bernie Bots are morons because you don’t understand the downstream impacts of your stupidity.
well you and the rest of the "know it all" people sure like that socialism when it comes to subsidies for businesses. More doled out in corporate welfare than to the needy but kid yourself.