And the expected Gary Patterson response..
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Can we bring back Emmitt Till? Can we undo the beatings John Lewis took? Of course not.
The first step in fixing a problem is to admit to it. It seems to me that many white people in this country can't admit to the problem.
The thing I'm heartened by right now is that more white people are now admitting to the problem and want to work to fix it.
We're finally at a point that more people want to change things than don't.
Apparently that makes many on this board upset.
No amount of admission or recognition of the past will ever be enough to the limp wristed race baiting dregs who need racial division so they have a platform.
Lol...I don't know what anecdote you're talking about
Our opinions of those things are probably the same.
I'm not a big fan of either. Nor is most other people that want our racial problems to get fixed.
Picking out bad anecdotes doesn't reflect what's going on in the big picture.
And you never told what opinions of mine you don't like. Although you did assume...
Uh...yeah. those things suck.
But if you're more concerned about these one-off stories than you are about 400 years of persistent racial violence i think you're priorities are misplaced.
You act like stepping on a piece of dog poop is the same as doing laps in a sess pool.
Agree wholeheartedly. And the solution is so simple. It is a matter of treating people with dignity and respect. That is all that is required. We can do this, can't we?
That would have been dumb.
He's an adult and a leader of young men.
We should expect more of a coach than a player.
In all your posts you're conflating two totally separate ideas. What you see as inequality of opportunity is really inequality of outcome. This has more to do with class values than color of skin. That's why the same problems you see in the inner cities you also see in Appalachian white communities.
Sure, we know about Emmitt Till. We know about John Lewis and the Selma march. MLK, Rosa Parks, Adae Mae Collins, Denise McNair, Carole Robertson, Cynthia Wesley, and the list goes on. What do all those names have in common? They all happened in the 50's and 60's.
People fought to end that injustice. White folks and black folks. Laws like the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Brown v. BOE, and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 as well as a host of others since have virtually eliminated the inequality of opportunity you repeatedly have brought up.
Today, we have George Floyd. Michael Brown. Ahmaud Arbery. All reported on ad nauseam in the court of public opinion. But, have you heard about David Jackson? Mark Gassett? Zach Randalls? Ricky Ellsworth? Haley Hutchison? Bet you haven't. And why not?
Because it doesn't fit in the narrative. The narrative that whites are racist and blacks are all impoverished, mistreated, under educated, criminal nincompoops who are incapable of living a good life and making correct decisions for themselves without the benevolence of the "woke" white man.
You are right. People should be upset. Upset to know there are people out there who continue to see blacks this way, and in their "wokeness" continue to perpetuate the myth so they can feel a sense of superiority over those who don't feel that way.
Or, of course, you can just call them racist.
"Name me a single word that is offensive regardless of context. It doesn't exist."
Words aren't just collections of written letters on a piece of paper. They have meaning.
The meaning, the definition of the n word, its origin, how it has traditionally been used makes it an inherently offensive word.
I do believe its not offensive in your mind. But that says much more about you than that word.
You'd be correct if this was a little league coach. Maybe even up to the high school level but even that is stretching it.
These are two adult men. One was angry because he felt he deserved a starting position or more playing time that he was "promised" but hasn't received. He stated as such in his original post. He saw an opportunity to get back at the person he felt was keeping him from that playing time so he took to social media.
Both sides have since apologized even though Patterson did nothing more than use a word out of context and a frustrated kid took out his anger in social media.
You're just using a fallacy called false authority.
What you are promoting is censorship. The belief that if one finds a word, groups of words, or ideas offensive then no one should be able to speak or hear them.
If what you inferred above about him is true in your eyes, then what does someone who promotes censorship say about them?
I appreciate your thoughts.
There are a few important issues I have with some of your premises...
First of all...the idea that opportunities are equal is not even close to true. Many blacks are still stuck in low income, low education environments as a result of the lasting legacy of racist public policies and racist social structures.
I appreciate your comparison to Appalachian poverty but you just can't deny the affect Jim Crow, red lining, lack of job opportunities have specifically targeted black communities. Yes...even since 1964. Obviously a written law did not stop racism.
To say inequality of opportunity is virtually eliminated is not even close to true.
I'm not sure who those names are but I'll guess they are white people killed by black people.
May some black people kill white people because they are racist? Sure...some black people are racist.
So now what? Now that that fact is established what do we do? Nothing because there are bad folks on " both sides"?
Its not about black vs white. It's about racists vs not racist.
Can we agree that all racism is wrong? I'm on board!
What bothers me is folks that look at the whole history of the country and somehow still think that white America is the victim somehow.
That to me is mind boggling.
I think every college coach in the country would say more should be expected of him than of the young men who's parents they have promised to help develop as adults.
This is a poor argument.
Sadly, I don't think so anymore.
We have created a "throw away" society. You and I are "older". We remember when things were built to last. When something broke down, you called in a repairman to fix it. Not today... your washing machine goes out after 3 years of service you're better off going to get another one because to repair it costs as much as a new one. Televisions? Forget about it.
The same goes for us, too. The family is the nucleus of this society. Look at where we are now. No fault divorces. 80% of blacks born out of wedlock. Children being raised by strangers in day cares from birth. Thousands of abortions every year. Children being exposed to garbage on television and computer screens at increasingly earlier and earlier ages by people we normally wouldn't allow in the front door. Churches empty. Our elderly locked away in nursing homes. It just goes on and on. And it all boils down to what's most convenient for "me". I can't be inconvenienced...
This is where we first learn how to treat people with dignity and respect. But, we've thrown it all away like yesterday's newspaper. Until we fix this, nothing else will even matter.
None of this is correct.
I never said those words should be made illegal to say...or people who say them should go to jail. I love the 1st Amendment as much as you.
But that doesn't mean that as a society there isn't a common understanding that the n word is inherently offensive.
You don't need to think that...but your in the minority in that thought.
You can make that word a regular part of your conversation if you like. Good luck with that.
Expect more than reprimanding the person who used the offensive language?
This 20/20 after-the-fact condemnation of people's actions is guaranteed to find fault, as no one is perfect. As a member of a minority, as early as grade school i have heard my close friends use offensive terms. They are still my friends. Why? Because i always have considered the context in which the offensive term was used and the intent of the person who used it. I would talk with my friends and explain why the term involved is offensive. To a person, once i do that, they have never used that term again. Intent is the key. i have no trouble jumping with both feet on someone who knows what they are saying is offensive, but i just can't see hurting (rather than educating) someone who didn't mean to so offend.
When Patterson used the n-word (based on what has been made public), he didn't just pop the word out of nowhere to demonize or trivialize the player. He used what the player himself said as a teaching opportunity to point out to the player what he should not have said. And i do not like Patterson. He's a good coach on X's and O's, but i think he's an *******, and i'm still mad at him for the cheap shot by his team that effectively ended Clint Trickett's career.
or...Or...ORR...maybe they just feel strongly that "All men are created equal" and they just want "liberty and justice for all" and are very perplexed why some people get so mad at them for pursuing those things.
Its weird.
No argument here. If you look at my first post you'll see I started on here pointing out that the TCU kid totally over reacted and he was brought back by older leadership both coaches and players.
If all the anger on this thread stems from GP apologizing...well that a pretty tiny price to pay to fix the situation.
Hell...he came out of this better than he was. Upperclassmen and former players had his back and the kid looked like a chump. I'm going to guess there won't be another freshmen making Twitter noise in that program for a long time.
Let's take this point by point.
Your point about blacks stuck in low income and low education environments we both agree with. That it is because of some Jim Crow law from 1953 isn't close to being correct. If it was, then blacks in the Southern inner cities like Atlanta, Charlotte, New Orleans or Houston would have it much worse than those in the Northern cities like New York, Chicago, LA, or Detroit where Jim Crow didn't exist. Can you justify that with any facts or figures? I don't think so but I'll leave that ball in your court.
But, let's look at what COULD be the cause of low income and low education. First, nearly 80% of black children are born illegitimately. Being raised, primarily by a single mother, on public assistance, with multiple other children in the household, wouldn't that play a part. The government has essentially taken over the role of the black male. Growing up without a proper male authority figure and role model, how would that affect the young black male? When a young black girl sees her mother constantly seeking a male to assume that role, bearing children and watching them leave, what effect does that play on how the black girl sees herself? On how the black man sees the black girl?
Education comes from your values. Often societal values. Middle and upper class people see education as a way to improve your life and make connections you will utilize later on. With the lower class, they tend to see their lives as hopeless so education becomes something you have to put up with until you can get out. A pseudo prison per se.
If you can point out specific spots of unequal opportunities, I'll jump right in there and help you fight it. But, you can't just say what happened 60 years ago still happens today but not back it up. It's purely anecdotal. Its akin to saying Jiff peanut butter tastes better than Peter Pan because I say so.
Yes, those were names of white people killed by blacks. You've never heard their names because their names aren't important to the narrative that must be fostered. A narrative that has become politicized based on isolated examples being described as the norm.
What does "its not about black versus white; its about racists versus non racists" mean? Racist in thought or racist in deed? What definition is being used? Can there be one without the other? Can you eliminate both? Now, you're getting into motive.
The prevalence in education today in dealing with the Civil Rights Movement is extremely misleading because it overgeneralizes white people as racists while overlooking the positives and overgeneralizes black people by putting them on pedestals while overlooking their foibles. You can't judge people of the day by today's beliefs and opinions. Times were different and beliefs were different.
Of course they will say that. But, that wasn't the argument. You're trying to frame it your way and that isn't the correct one. This incident was nothing about "developing into adults". This was about an adult who acted childish because he didn't get his way and has since both admitted and apologized for it.
Again, you're trying to frame the argument. And, again, you're doing it incorrectly.
Censorship isn't about illegality or jail. It's about denying people the right to say something before it is said.
Afterwards, you can then pass summary judgement on them like you did with the poster who disagreed with you over the word by inferring that he was somehow "lesser" than you.
A word, like most words, could be offensive in their context. Same could be said about a Robert Maplethorp painting or a Larry Flynt magazine. However, the courts have ruled time and time again that its in the eyes of the beholder and that because you're offended doesn't mean it can't be produced or stated.
Race bait, race bait and race bait some more. Lucky for you that bad things happened to a black man so you could get in your pedestal and virtue signal to your hearts extent and let the world know just how much you care and how wrong the rest of us are.
Its sad really.
What you should have typed is All Lives Matter. Including the black lives wearing MAGA hats.
Terrorism is defined in the Code of Federal Regulations as “the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives” (28 C.F.R.
No assuming or asking needed. You expressed your opinion in the post I originally responded to. And those “bad anecdotes” are great examples which show we are not simply “being asked to respect each other’s opinions and feelings” as you put it. But I appreciate that at least you are not a fan of those tactics.
If you truly believe what you just stated, then the riots are not justified correct? I know that racism is alive in America, it just does not have the impact that it had in the 60's. Income inequality is a much larger issue than racism...and they both share common ground. As Condi Rice said yesterday, she has no idea how a gov. can impact racism, but they can give low income minority students the ability to have a choice to get a quality education...something the left and the teachers unions have spent millions making sure it never happens.
As it pertains to D1 sports, it practically non existent but here we are...firing people who have spent their entire lives working with low income minority student athletes and giving them some much needed structure to have a chance at life. To prove this point, Troy U had more athletes receive pell grants than any other college in AL. That means that most of the kids that went to Troy lived below the polverity line...WVU has its fair share also.
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I don’t agree with your assertion that black lives are not valued the same. Floyd would be alive today if he’d not been hopped up on ILLEGAL narcotics, if he’d not tried to conduct an ILLEGAL transaction, if he’d not tried to ILLEGALLY resist arrest, if he had not ILLEGALLY refused to cooperate with an officer’s commands.
It seems the only person not valuing his life was him. And frankly, being honest, race is irrelevant to my position. Interchange the positions on the matrix of aggrieved and it’s still the same for me. I don’t value a person’s life with that little character. Society is likely better off without someone like that running the streets and committing crimes on a daily basis. If you cannot live within the confines of acceptable societal behavior, you have no value to society. It’s just that simple.
Now, acknowledge that the body cam footage showed zero racial angle.
the first step is to forgive. Blacks need to forgive. Then we can move on to reconcile. Reconciliation will not occur until forgiveness occurs.
Why would I care about **** that happened before my time? It’s not my debt.