A question of logic the Left will avoid

[atlkvb]

Simple really:

Let's say we grant amnesty to all of those illegally entering our country. But in exchange for that amnesty, they are permanently banned from voting. Forever. Cannot vote in any election, or receive ANY public assistance as a result. That's the punishment for breaking our Law.

Do you still want them here?

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

Your question isn't realistic. If we let them in under current laws they are already limited in what they can do or access. Unless granted citizenship, they can't vote.....ever. That is currently the law. As to public assistance, it depends how you classify assistance programs. Many are already restricted or prohibited by law Atl. I would not deny emergency healthcare or restrict access to immunizations.

 

[Keyser76]

Simple really:

Let's say we grant amnesty to all of those illegally entering our country. But in exchange for that amnesty, they are permanently banned from voting. Forever. Cannot vote in any election, or receive ANY public assistance as a result. That's the punishment for breaking our Law.

Do you still want them here?

"Them" lol, oh I see you buy into the ******** that they will sway elections away from folks endorsed by Nazis and the KKK and they don't ever work. When you Trumpers see anyone Hispanic do you automatically assume they weren't born here? Living in WV, it sure ain't immigrants that are sitting on their asses doing dope and getting checks while they screech out Trumps racism.

 

[atlkvb]

Your question isn't realistic. If we let them in under current laws they are already limited in what they can do or access. Unless granted citizenship, they can't vote.....ever. That is currently the law. As to public assistance, it depends how you classify assistance programs. Many are already restricted or prohibited by law Atl. I would not deny emergency healthcare or restrict access to immunizations.

I said it was logic the Left would avoid. Why isn't it "realistic"? Folks coming here legally are granted all the rights to citizenship as a citizen including voting. What's the punishment for coming here illegally and asking for asylum or amnesty? Isn't this what the Left wants? amnesty for them?

OK...what's the punishment for breaking the Law to get here and ask for it?

'Ya can't vote...ever. So, given that punishment to enforce our Law, do you still want them here?

 

[atlkvb]

"Them" lol, oh I see you buy into the ******** that they will sway elections away from folks endorsed by Nazis and the KKK and they don't ever work. When you Trumpers see anyone Hispanic do you automatically assume they weren't born here? Living in WV, it sure ain't immigrants that are sitting on their asses doing dope and getting checks while they screech out Trumps racism.

I'm asking about the folks who enter the country illegally. What is their punishment? I'm suggesting giving you on the Left what you want for them (amnesty) but as a result of breaking our Law to punish them by permanently revoking their voting privilege. They are illegal, but we've given them amnesty...OK. However to enforce our Law they can't vote or receive public assistance ever. Want that to change? Then come here "legally" and it's cool.

So do you still want all of those poor folks coming here with no right to vote or receive public assistance?

 

[atlkvb]

"Them" lol, oh I see you buy into the ******** that they will sway elections away from folks endorsed by Nazis and the KKK and they don't ever work. When you Trumpers see anyone Hispanic do you automatically assume they weren't born here? Living in WV, it sure ain't immigrants that are sitting on their asses doing dope and getting checks while they screech out Trumps racism.

You didn't answer the question....you avoided an answer. Too much logic for you Keyser?

 

[atlkvb]

Your question isn't realistic. If we let them in under current laws they are already limited in what they can do or access. Unless granted citizenship, they can't vote.....ever. That is currently the law. As to public assistance, it depends how you classify assistance programs. Many are already restricted or prohibited by law Atl. I would not deny emergency healthcare or restrict access to immunizations.

My question is simple. If you BREAK THE LAW coming here, you cannot vote ever in any election OR receive any public assistance at all! (Private help is fine, but nothing from taxpayers)

I'm sympathetic to their desire for a better Life, but we must enforce our immigration Laws. There is a process for them to legally come here, follow that and all is well. But sneak into the country illegally, then if you manage to make it here and ask for our amnesty, you get nothing else...you can't vote, or receive ANY public assistance EVER! So the message is don't come here illegally, or come here legally if you want to vote or receive public assistance.

But my question to you Leftists is, what do you on the Left prefer? Amnesty? Fine. In exchange for that they can't vote or receive any public aid. Do you still want them coming here in the numbers they are if that's our policy?

What is their punishment for breaking our Laws if we give them amnesty which is what you on the Left want for them?

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

My question is simple. If you BREAK THE LAW coming here, you cannot vote ever in any election OR receive any public assistance at all! (Private help is fine, but nothing from taxpayers)

I'm sympathetic to their desire for a better Life, but we must enforce our immigration Laws. There is a process for them to legally come here, follow that and all is well. But sneak into the country illegally, then if you manage to make it here we will give you amnesty, but nothing else...so don't come here illegally.

But my question was what do you on the Left prefer? Amnesty? Fine. In exchange for that they can't vote or receive any public aid. Do you still want them coming here in the numbers they are if that's our policy?

What is their punishment for breaking our Laws if we give them amnesty which is what you on the Left want for them?

How about the fact that they have to do the jobs that you and I won't? Maybe work the fields, clean hotels, roof work, landscaping...... There is no realistic process for these poor Central Americans and Mexicans to come here. So stop with that nonsense. You and your ilk don't want them here.

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

My question is simple. If you BREAK THE LAW coming here, you cannot vote ever in any election OR receive any public assistance at all! (Private help is fine, but nothing from taxpayers)

I'm sympathetic to their desire for a better Life, but we must enforce our immigration Laws. There is a process for them to legally come here, follow that and all is well. But sneak into the country illegally, then if you manage to make it here we will give you amnesty, but nothing else...so don't come here illegally.

You are neither sympathetic nor empathetic to anything that doesn't directly benefit you.

 

[atlkvb]

You are neither sympathetic nor empathetic to anything that doesn't directly benefit you.

You didn't answer the question.
(I know, logic to the Left is anathema to your thought process)

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

There is no realistic process for these poor Central Americans and Mexicans to come here.

Yes, in fact there is. There is a controlled process in which one can legally immigrate to this country. They’re trying to circumvent that process and do it illegally and use loopholes created by compounding administrations and this administration is trying to control and address.

 

[atlkvb]

How about the fact that they have to do the jobs that you and I won't? Maybe work the fields, clean hotels, roof work, landscaping...... There is no realistic process for these poor Central Americans and Mexicans to come here. So stop with that nonsense. You and your ilk don't want them here.

What does cleaning Hotels, roof work, landscaping, and working the fields have to do with my question OM1?

It's simple. What is the punishment for coming here if you break our Law? The left wants amnesty for them...OK I'm giving you that.

So what's the punishment? My suggestion is simple. They have no voting privileges..ever. Why? Because they broke the Law. So they can't vote for or receive public assistance...ever.

See, you and the Left won't admit that's the real reason you want them here...to game the system or rig the votes so you can't lose. So I'm using logic to both expose your hypocrisy, as well defeat your strategy arguing for their amnesty to come here and eventually vote DEMOCRAT.

So be honest and tell me that's not what you ultimately want them here for?

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

You didn't answer the question.
(I know, logic to the Left is anathema to your thought process)

Damn......I answered the question in the first response. Current law prohibits aliens from voting and collecting public assistance like Food Stamps. If you are asking if we should prohibit granting them full rights of citizenship if citizenship is granted in the future, no. That would be in complete violation of their constitutional rights....you know that Constitution that you claim to love so dearly.

Your hate for Spanish speakers is not healthy.

 

[atlkvb]

Damn......I answered the question in the first response. Current law prohibits aliens from voting and collecting public assistance like Food Stamps. If you are asking if we should prohibit granting them full rights of citizenship if citizenship is granted in the future, no. That would be in complete violation of their constitutional rights....you know that Constitution that you claim to love so dearly.

Your hate for Spanish speakers is not healthy.

You always accuse me of "changing the subject" or refusing to answer a direct question. I didn't say anything about folks under current current Law. Those folks you mentioned in your response are already here, in many cases with expired Green cards, or are awaiting citizenship status.

I'm talking about folks who violate our Laws...(even if they're already here). What is the solution to that problem? What is their punishment for breaking the Law, and if we grant them the amnesty the Left wants (Feinstein bill) why can't we also stipulate that as a result of them being rewarded with amnesty for breaking our Law, they will also be restricted from ever voting in any of our legal elections or receiving any of our legal public assistance ---and if that becomes our Law do you still want these people coming here in the numbers they are coming while violating our Laws?

It's really quite simple, but you are avoiding an answer as adroitly as you accuse me of it....talking about hotel jobs, and current Law which as you know is totally F'd up which is why we have this problem in the first place OM1!

 

[Shirley Knott]

All I hear is gnashing of teeth, or in keysers case tooth...

 

[atlkvb]

All I hear is gnashing of teeth, or in keysers case tooth...

Now that's funny.

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

Yes, in fact there is. There is a controlled process in which one can legally immigrate to this country. They’re trying to circumvent that process and do it illegally and use loopholes created by compounding administrations and this administration is trying to control and address.

Tell me how many or the percentage of poor, Spanish speaking people were allowed to enter the country in 2017. Your statement is like saying we all can become filthy rich by winning Powerball....sure we could. Not realistic. 1.13 million obtained legal permanent status in the US in 2017.

Total 1,128,194
Family-sponsored preferences (spouses, Children, parents) 231,892
Immediate relatives of U.S. citizens 515,471
Employment-based preferences 138,980

So of the 1.1 million, 886,000 either have close family ties or have a skill/trade we need. 214,000 others were granted legal status for a number of reasons from all the countries of the world. So again, tell me the chance of a poor Mexican or Central American family getting legal status into the US?

I am not saying nor have I ever said we need uncontrolled boarders and unlimited immigration. But there are many on the right and on this forum have a distinct negative bias to Spanish speakers from our neighbors to the south.

 

[atlkvb]

Tell me how many or the percentage of poor, Spanish speaking people were allowed to enter the country in 2017. Your statement is like saying we all can become filthy rich by winning Powerball....sure we could. Not realistic. 1.13 million obtained legal permanent status in the US in 2017.

Total 1,128,194
Family-sponsored preferences (spouses, Children, parents) 231,892
Immediate relatives of U.S. citizens 515,471
Employment-based preferences 138,980

So of the 1.1 million, 886,000 either have close family ties or have a skill/trade we need. 214,000 others were granted legal status for a number of reasons from all the countries of the world. So again, tell me the chance of a poor Mexican or Central American family getting legal status into the US?

I am not saying nor have I ever said we need uncontrolled boarders and unlimited immigration. But there are many on the right and on this forum have a distinct negative bias to Spanish speakers from our neighbors to the south.

You simply won't answer the question on permanently banning their voting privileges if they're granted amnesty for coming here illegally.

Why not?

 

[atlkvb]

I am not saying nor have I ever said we need uncontrolled boarders and unlimited immigration. But there are many on the right and on this forum have a distinct negative bias to Spanish speakers from our neighbors to the south.

And you folks on the Left won't admit you want open borders and no limits on immigration. You don't even really believe in international borders if you're totally honest, but you haven't figured out yet how to sell that.

 

[TarHeelEer]

Your question isn't realistic. If we let them in under current laws they are already limited in what they can do or access. Unless granted citizenship, they can't vote.....ever. That is currently the law. As to public assistance, it depends how you classify assistance programs. Many are already restricted or prohibited by law Atl. I would not deny emergency healthcare or restrict access to immunizations.

LOL

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

LOL

Why the LOL? Factually incorrect?

 

[atlkvb]

Why the LOL? Factually incorrect?

Why no answer to the OP question? Logically inconsistent with the Leftist agenda?

 

[TarHeelEer]

Why the LOL? Factually incorrect?

Factually incorrect. They vote, they receive benefits, the whole lot. It doesn't matter what the law says. It sounds familiar.

 

[atlkvb]

Factually incorrect. They vote, they receive benefits, the whole lot. It doesn't matter what the law says. It sounds familiar.

The Left won't admit this is why they want more of them here.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Tell me how many or the percentage of poor, Spanish speaking people were allowed to enter the country in 2017. Your statement is like saying we all can become filthy rich by winning Powerball....sure we could. Not realistic. 1.13 million obtained legal permanent status in the US in 2017.

Total 1,128,194
Family-sponsored preferences (spouses, Children, parents) 231,892
Immediate relatives of U.S. citizens 515,471
Employment-based preferences 138,980

So of the 1.1 million, 886,000 either have close family ties or have a skill/trade we need. 214,000 others were granted legal status for a number of reasons from all the countries of the world. So again, tell me the chance of a poor Mexican or Central American family getting legal status into the US?

I am not saying nor have I ever said we need uncontrolled boarders and unlimited immigration. But there are many on the right and on this forum have a distinct negative bias to Spanish speakers from our neighbors to the south.

Then prey tell what is THE number of correct immigration recipients? You seem to have a problem with the official number.

Of those numbers listed, how many were from South/Central America?

If we could curb illegal immigration, do you think our legal immigration number would go up? Is it possible we don’t take more from South of the border because we know we already have an influx coming here illegally? I don’t know. Seems plausible. The one thing I do know is that we don’t have a problem of too few illegals.

And I have no feelings of obligation to our neighbors to the south. They certainly have no respect for my country, and they show it everytime they try to come here illegally. I find it appalling that we’ve slipped this far as a nation state where this is even a discussion. Illegal = Deported. It’s simple.

 

[atlkvb]

I find it appalling that we’ve slipped this far as a nation state where this is even a discussion. Illegal = Deported. It’s simple.

This is why I tried to simplify the resolution in my OP. The Left wants amnesty for these folks right? Regardless of their numbers right? Amnesty, for all who can make it here right?

OK...so let's give them that, but as a stipulation let's also include with the amnesty a permanent revocation of ALL voting and public assistance privileges. Still want them coming in here in the same numbers?

Logic the Left continues to avoid.

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

Then prey tell what is THE number of correct immigration recipients? You seem to have a problem with the official number.

Of those numbers listed, how many were from South/Central America?

If we could curb illegal immigration, do you think our legal immigration number would go up? Is it possible we don’t take more from South of the border because we know we already have an influx coming here illegally? I don’t know. Seems plausible. The one thing I do know is that we don’t have a problem of too few illegals.

And I have no feelings of obligation to our neighbors to the south. They certainly have no respect for my country, and they show it everytime they try to come here illegally. I find it appalling that we’ve slipped this far as a nation state where this is even a discussion. Illegal = Deported. It’s simple.

Then prey tell what is THE number of correct immigration recipients? You seem to have a problem with the official number.

Of those numbers listed, how many were from South/Central America?

If we could curb illegal immigration, do you think our legal immigration number would go up? Is it possible we don’t take more from South of the border because we know we already have an influx coming here illegally? I don’t know. Seems plausible. The one thing I do know is that we don’t have a problem of too few illegals.

And I have no feelings of obligation to our neighbors to the south. They certainly have no respect for my country, and they show it everytime they try to come here illegally. I find it appalling that we’ve slipped this far as a nation state where this is even a discussion. Illegal = Deported. It’s simple.

You stated that their is a process. I countered that the process is nearly non-existent for poor immigrants from Mexico and Central America.
INS didn't break down the numbers by the origin of folk entering legally. I did see where 40% come from 6 countries (Mexico, India, China, were three of those 6).

You know illegal crossings are way down and the number of illegals in this country has steadily been decreasing since Obama. Maybe in this regard NAFTA was working as intended??? I don't know.

I have gone on record stating that I would allow those here to stay and tighten the borders going forward. Nevertheless, you can still treat the detained with a little human decency right? Or maybe not. Your statement that "they have no respect for your country" is so off base it is laughable. They aren't trying to get into Haiti or Venezuela. I would say their desire to end in the US shows respect for the country and opportunity it presents.

 

[atlkvb]

I have gone on record stating that I would allow those here to stay and tighten the borders going forward

But you STILL have not answered if they are granted amnesty (provided they came here illegally) would you be OK with a permanent revocation of all their voting rights and rights to receive public assistance? So the Left gets amnesty for them, you want that right?

What is their punishment for breaking our Law?

 

[Mntneer]

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

But you STILL have not answered if they are granted amnesty (provided they came here illegally) would you be OK with a permanent revocation of all their voting rights and rights to receive public assistance? So the Left gets amnesty for them, you want that right?

What is their punishment for breaking our Law?

I have answered it twice. Just because you lack the cognitive skills to respond logically, don't blame me.

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

This is why I tried to simplify the resolution in my OP. The Left wants amnesty for these folks right? Regardless of their numbers right? Amnesty, for all who can make it here right?

OK...so let's give them that, but as a stipulation let's also include with the amnesty a permanent revocation of ALL voting and public assistance privileges. Still want them coming in here in the same numbers?

Logic the Left continues to avoid.

Where have you read that the left wants amnesty for the folks recently detained at the border? You are making this up or quoting some far right source. Basically your stupid original post was destroyed and now you are grasping at air....

 

[atlkvb]

Where have you read that the left wants amnesty for the folks recently detained at the border? You are making this up or quoting some far right source. Basically your stupid original post was destroyed and now you are grasping at air....

Here's a link to answer your first question.
https://www.lee.senate.gov/public/i...-note?ID=EB54C2FE-118B-4C90-87F7-D0794AF78AC1

and you STILL haven't answered my first.

 

[atlkvb]

I have answered it twice. Just because you lack the cognitive skills to respond logically, don't blame me.

OK...so the direct answer to my question in the OP was:
(respond with what you posted as an answer)

 

[atlkvb]

What is their punishment for breaking our Law?

I have answered it twice. Just because you lack the cognitive skills to respond logically, don't blame me.

Please re-post the answer you provided in your response to this post.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

You know illegal crossings are way down and the number of illegals in this country has steadily been decreasing since Obama.

That stat is ******** and has been debunked numerous times.

I have gone on record stating that I would allow those here to stay and tighten the borders going forward.

As have I.

Nevertheless, you can still treat the detained with a little human decency right?

They are.

 

[atlkvb]

Basically your stupid original post was destroyed and now you are grasping at air.

@Original Mountaineer1
Amazing you posted this and called my question stupid and maybe it was. But it sure has managed to mute a decent answer from you hasn't it?

I'm still waiting for your direct answer to this question as stated in the OP:

Quote:
Let's say we grant amnesty to all of those illegally entering our country. But in exchange for that amnesty, they are permanently banned from voting. Forever. Cannot vote in any election, or receive ANY public assistance as a result. That's the punishment for breaking our Law.

Do you still want them here?

I know it's a stupid question, so try a stupid answer at least huh @Original Mountaineer1?

 

[atlkvb]

Your question isn't realistic. If we let them in under current laws they are already limited in what they can do or access. Unless granted citizenship, they can't vote.....ever. That is currently the law. As to public assistance, it depends how you classify assistance programs. Many are already restricted or prohibited by law Atl. I would not deny emergency healthcare or restrict access to immunizations.

@Original Mountaineer1 ...you said you answered this, but I'm giving you another chance. Same question (phrased differently than OP) what is your answer? You say you've answered already but you didn't address the amnesty question, or the permanent voting suspension question.

So we grant them amnesty...which means we don't deport them for breaking our Laws. They have amnesty, not citizenship, but they still haven't paid a price for breaking our Law. I'm suggesting a permanent revocation of their voting privileges (yes it's a privilege) and no access to public assistance (private charity and help is fine)

What's wrong with that? I've given you what you on the Left are constantly screaming for amnesty for "undocumented" aliens. You guys are always talking about "compromise" so in exchange for my giving you amnesty for them, I don't want them voting...ever! If not, what is their punishment for breaking our Laws?

Do you still want them coming here illegally then with the blanket amnesty but no voting and no Welfare programs?