Haymaker Forest in Morgantown

[rog1187]

Anyone following this - city council wants to purchase a 40-acre tract of land for $5.2mil to preserve green space in the city of Morgantown. It borders one or more of the council members property and they stand to see an increase in their land value if the purchase goes through. Morgantown does not have a current stream of money identified to pay for the entire purchase. Supposedly there are developers that want to put residential structures on the piece of property but are willing to sell. I understand it's pretty steep property and I wonder how practical it is for residential development.

 

[Boomboom521]

I’m not aware of the area. I just wanted to say great post. No left or right.....just keeping government in check. Good local stuff

 

[rog1187]

I’m not aware of the area. I just wanted to say great post. No left or right.....just keeping government in check. Good local stuff

I understand the desire/need for green space within city limits. There are plenty of parks in Morgantown, but I'd classify them as in fair to poor condition and would rather money be spent to bring those up to great before buying land that may or may not be used as much as the current parks.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

That's a badass name. City Council sounds crooked AF. I'm stunned.

 

[Boomboom521]

I understand the desire/need for green space within city limits. There are plenty of parks in Morgantown, but I'd classify them as in fair to poor condition and would rather money be spent to bring those up to great before buying land that may or may not be used as much as the current parks.

Agreed. Balance is key, development isn’t always a bad thing

 

[The Elf]

After growing up in WV and then attending WVU, I moved to NJ. The town I moved to was very densely developed with housing, townhouse and apartment complexes....along with shopping centers and office complexes. They finally decided to buy this little patch of green space that was about the only spot left in the entire town. I then moved to PA (continuing to work in NJ), about 16 years ago. I went back of to that NJ town about 5 years ago and couldn’t believe how much more development had taken place. I didn’t even realize there were even big enough spots to put another structure, but they did it. That once nice town is now just a complete concrete **** hole.
The town I live in now in PA is beautiful. The entire county buys up the development rights to large tracts of land continually....have since I moved there. In most cases, they do not actually buy the land, but just buy the development rights. They will pay a farmer $1M (for example) and he is still allowed to farm the land as well, but gives him incentive not to sell the farm to a developer for $1M. If/when he eventually sells the property, it is understood that property is being sold w/o development rights. The towns and county have issued several rounds of bond sales to pay for this and each time the people vote to the support it by a wide margin.
Not all of the land is turned into “parks”; although some of it is. It just remains some sort of green space, instead of another housing or office complex.
I love it personally. They have done this with thousands of acres. I can assure you I would much rather live here than my old town in NJ.

 

[dave]

Anyone following this - city council wants to purchase a 40-acre tract of land for $5.2mil to preserve green space in the city of Morgantown. It borders one or more of the council members property and they stand to see an increase in their land value if the purchase goes through. Morgantown does not have a current stream of money identified to pay for the entire purchase. Supposedly there are developers that want to put residential structures on the piece of property but are willing to sell. I understand it's pretty steep property and I wonder how practical it is for residential development.

They literally claimed the green space would help prevent flooding. They said that.

 

[rog1187]

After growing up in WV and then attending WVU, I moved to NJ. The town I moved to was very densely developed with housing, townhouse and apartment complexes....along with shopping centers and office complexes. They finally decided to buy this little patch of green space that was about the only spot left in the entire town. I then moved to PA (continuing to work in NJ), about 16 years ago. I went back of to that NJ town about 5 years ago and couldn’t believe how much more development had taken place. I didn’t even realize there were even big enough spots to put another structure, but they did it. That once nice town is now just a complete concrete **** hole.
The town I live in now in PA is beautiful. The entire county buys up the development rights to large tracts of land continually....have since I moved there. In most cases, they do not actually buy the land, but just buy the development rights. They will pay a farmer $1M (for example) and he is still allowed to farm the land as well, but gives him incentive not to sell the farm to a developer for $1M. If/when he eventually sells the property, it is understood that property is being sold w/o development rights. The towns and county have issued several rounds of bond sales to pay for this and each time the people vote to the support it by a wide margin.
Not all of the land is turned into “parks”; although some of it is. It just remains some sort of green space, instead of another housing or office complex.
I love it personally. They have done this with thousands of acres. I can assure you I would much rather live here than my old town in NJ.

After growing up in WV and then attending WVU, I moved to NJ. The town I moved to was very densely developed with housing, townhouse and apartment complexes....along with shopping centers and office complexes. They finally decided to buy this little patch of green space that was about the only spot left in the entire town. I then moved to PA (continuing to work in NJ), about 16 years ago. I went back of to that NJ town about 5 years ago and couldn’t believe how much more development had taken place. I didn’t even realize there were even big enough spots to put another structure, but they did it. That once nice town is now just a complete concrete **** hole.
The town I live in now in PA is beautiful. The entire county buys up the development rights to large tracts of land continually....have since I moved there. In most cases, they do not actually buy the land, but just buy the development rights. They will pay a farmer $1M (for example) and he is still allowed to farm the land as well, but gives him incentive not to sell the farm to a developer for $1M. If/when he eventually sells the property, it is understood that property is being sold w/o development rights. The towns and county have issued several rounds of bond sales to pay for this and each time the people vote to the support it by a wide margin.
Not all of the land is turned into “parks”; although some of it is. It just remains some sort of green space, instead of another housing or office complex.
I love it personally. They have done this with thousands of acres. I can assure you I would much rather live here than my old town in NJ.

there are no plans to turn it into a park that I’m aware of - just green space. To me the issue is the cost, council member conflict of interest, current space they can’t maintain, etc.

 

[rog1187]

They literally claimed the green space would help prevent flooding. They said that.

I heard that - how does that work? I listened to the one council member this morning on WAJR and he wouldn’t answer legit questions and was a total ***.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

I heard that - how does that work? I listened to the one council member this morning on WAJR and he wouldn’t answer legit questions and was a total ***.

There was a Pro Publica study about Houston's constant flooding, and I believe lack of green space was a (if not the) major issue. That said, this sounds like a shady deal for council members.

 

[The Elf]

They literally claimed the green space would help prevent flooding. They said that.

That is actually possible as well. I am not familiar with that particular piece of land, but ground and vegetation allow for water/rain absorption. If you rip out all of the vegetation and pave over everything, then the rain runoff becomes an issue. My town has an ordinance that a certain percentage of all lots need to be water pervious. I think their percentages are too stricter, but it does make sense to some degree.

 

[moe]

That is actually possible as well. I am not familiar with that particular piece of land, but ground and vegetation allow for water/rain absorption. If you rip out all of the vegetation and pave over everything, then the rain runoff becomes an issue. My town has an ordinance that a certain percentage of all lots need to be water pervious. I think their percentages are too stricter, but it does make sense to some degree.

^^^This^^^

 

[dave]

That is actually possible as well. I am not familiar with that particular piece of land, but ground and vegetation allow for water/rain absorption. If you rip out all of the vegetation and pave over everything, then the rain runoff becomes an issue. My town has an ordinance that a certain percentage of all lots need to be water pervious. I think their percentages are too stricter, but it does make sense to some degree.

It is green space now. Buying it wont prevent flooding. Developing it poorly might but theere are already rules that developers have to follow to improve drainage if they develop it.

 

[dave]

^^^This^^^

You are a moron moe. The city cant buy land to block development.

 

[The Elf]

I am not here to argue and I don’t really give a **** what they do in Morgantown....I live hundreds of miles away. I am also not saying it isn’t some crooked deal for some council member. All I did was provide a couple of instances where something similar was done and it made sense. No idea if this makes sense. I can tell you that the area out by Mountaineer Field is starting to look like the concrete ******** I referenced in NJ.
One last thing on the runoff. If you develop the land and even “improve” the drainage.......that may still result in all of the rain going down some storm drain, not actually going back into the ground and replenishing the ground water supply. This is obviously an issue if people are relying on well water. Perhaps they are not in this case/area, but it is a potential issue...depending on how people source their drinking/house usage water supply.

 

[The Elf]

You are a moron moe. The city cant buy land to block development.

My county does it all of the time with tax payer consent. Why can’t they?

 

[dave]

I heard that - how does that work? I listened to the one council member this morning on WAJR and he wouldn’t answer legit questions and was a total ***.

Much like the Elf stated, impervious space (asphalt, concrete and gravel) cause water to flow longer on the surface and not soak into the ground. Depending on the surface, grass, wooded areas, exposed dirt etc all have different levels of absorption and that absorption slows the amount of time it takes for a rain event to fully reach the watershed outfall (get to the creek or river). So it can help flooding.

The lie is that any development is already required to not increase the outfall of the watershed and probably requires them to actually retain water to decrease flooding potential.

 

[dave]

My county does it all of the time with tax payer consent. Why can’t they?

Because they are not the county.

 

[The Elf]

Because they are not the county.

I believe my township does it as well, in addition to the county. If a farm is for sale, why can’t a township buy it even if they just let it sit, so a developer doesn’t buy it and build 50 houses it?

 

[bornaneer]

Much like the Elf stated, impervious space (asphalt, concrete and gravel) cause water to flow longer on the surface and not soak into the ground.

One of the contributing factors in the recent Ellicott City MD flooding.

 

[dave]

One of the contributing factors in the recent Ellicott City MD flooding.

Meh...

Impervious land + underdesigned drainage facilities.

Impervious land is not detrimental unless there is poor planning or construction coupled with it.

 

[dave]

I believe my township does it as well, in addition to the county. If a farm is for sale, why can’t a township buy it even if they just let it sit, so a developer doesn’t buy it and build 50 houses it?

They said they cant do that.

 

[Mog]

I heard something about this on the radio the other day. One big point of contention seemed to be that the city was going ahead with the purchase without having a property assessment done, so there was some feeling they would be paying way too much money.

 

[op2]

After growing up in WV and then attending WVU, I moved to NJ. The town I moved to was very densely developed with housing, townhouse and apartment complexes....along with shopping centers and office complexes. They finally decided to buy this little patch of green space that was about the only spot left in the entire town. I then moved to PA (continuing to work in NJ), about 16 years ago. I went back of to that NJ town about 5 years ago and couldn’t believe how much more development had taken place. I didn’t even realize there were even big enough spots to put another structure, but they did it. That once nice town is now just a complete concrete **** hole.
The town I live in now in PA is beautiful. The entire county buys up the development rights to large tracts of land continually....have since I moved there. In most cases, they do not actually buy the land, but just buy the development rights. They will pay a farmer $1M (for example) and he is still allowed to farm the land as well, but gives him incentive not to sell the farm to a developer for $1M. If/when he eventually sells the property, it is understood that property is being sold w/o development rights. The towns and county have issued several rounds of bond sales to pay for this and each time the people vote to the support it by a wide margin.
Not all of the land is turned into “parks”; although some of it is. It just remains some sort of green space, instead of another housing or office complex.
I love it personally. They have done this with thousands of acres. I can assure you I would much rather live here than my old town in NJ.

I'm torn. On one hand that sounds good but OTOH people have to live somewhere. The town I live in constantly preaches about the environment and keeping things green and helping those with less money by keeping housing affordable but the end result is a physically green town with expensive housing where a lot of people have to drive to work from far away, chugging CO2 into the air as they go. It's great for the people that can afford to live there but I don't see that it's good for the environment or affordability.

I wonder what the optimal amount of green space is such that the people living there have some nice green stuff to look at but it's not so much that it's pushing people out.

 

[dave]

I heard something about this on the radio the other day. One big point of contention seemed to be that the city was going ahead with the purchase without having a property assessment done, so there was some feeling they would be paying way too much money.

The rax appraisel is 1.2 million I think and they are paying 4 tomes that. It seems high.

My issue is they are paying 1 million up front and putting a bond levy on the ballot for the rest. What if it fails? Its like they are holding the city residents at gunpoint. Pass our levy or go bankrupt.

 

[The Elf]

I'm torn. On one hand that sounds good but OTOH people have to live somewhere. The town I live in constantly preaches about the environment and keeping things green and helping those with less money by keeping housing affordable but the end result is a physically green town with expensive housing where a lot of people have to drive to work from far away, chugging CO2 into the air as they go. It's great for the people that can afford to live there but I don't see that it's good for the environment or affordability.

I wonder what the optimal amount of green space is such that the people living there have some nice green stuff to look at but it's not so much that it's pushing people out.

That’s kind of the running joke around here. Everyone wants their house to be the last one built. Let me build my house, then we shouldn’t allow anymore development.
I have a 40 minute commute each way into NJ. I can’t imagine a more beautiful 40 minute commute than the one I have nearly all of it through Bucks County farmland. Perhaps something in Colorado, but that is a different kind of beautiful.....as well as areas of WV.
We certainly pay for it with property taxes of ~$9k a year, but I’ll take it.

 

[dave]

I wonder what the optimal amount of green space is such that the people living there have some nice green stuff to look at but it's not so much that it's pushing people out.

The standard is 15% of acreage. Morgantown already has that much not including privately owned green space and not including WVU green areas.

 

[mule_eer]

I'm torn. On one hand that sounds good but OTOH people have to live somewhere. The town I live in constantly preaches about the environment and keeping things green and helping those with less money by keeping housing affordable but the end result is a physically green town with expensive housing where a lot of people have to drive to work from far away, chugging CO2 into the air as they go. It's great for the people that can afford to live there but I don't see that it's good for the environment or affordability.

I wonder what the optimal amount of green space is such that the people living there have some nice green stuff to look at but it's not so much that it's pushing people out.

Boulder CO did that. They are closed to additional houses in the city limits. You can buy an overpriced dump of a house, tear it down and build new. That's insanely expensive though, mostly due to the rule. Also, towns started popping up immediately outside of Boulder city limits. They build like gangbusters out there, then everyone has to drive into Boulder.

 

[Boomboom521]

Boulder CO did that. They are closed to additional houses in the city limits. You can buy an overpriced dump of a house, tear it down and build new. That's insanely expensive though, mostly due to the rule. Also, towns started popping up immediately outside of Boulder city limits. They build like gangbusters out there, then everyone has to drive into Boulder.

But it’s a hell of a beautiful fvcking city

 

[Mog]

Boulder CO did that. They are closed to additional houses in the city limits. You can buy an overpriced dump of a house, tear it down and build new. That's insanely expensive though, mostly due to the rule. Also, towns started popping up immediately outside of Boulder city limits. They build like gangbusters out there, then everyone has to drive into Boulder.

On a side note, I listened to Gordon Gee speak earlier this week. He said he'd like to see Morgantown become to Pittsburgh what Boulder is to Denver- a relatively close college town that has a ton of tech companies based there.

 

[dave]

On a side note, I listened to Gordon Gee speak earlier this week. He said he'd like to see Morgantown become to Pittsburgh what Boulder is to Denver- a relatively close college town that has a ton of tech companies based there.

Be nice if they could get fiber to everyone. Or at least something to compete with Comcast.

 

[rog1187]

Boulder CO did that. They are closed to additional houses in the city limits. You can buy an overpriced dump of a house, tear it down and build new. That's insanely expensive though, mostly due to the rule. Also, towns started popping up immediately outside of Boulder city limits. They build like gangbusters out there, then everyone has to drive into Boulder.

Morgantown and Mon County have weak to zero zoning regs. I don't have an issue with protecting green space...this particular issue is more about timing and cost. Especially when Morgantown has so many other green spaces/parks that could use that money for much needed repair.

 

[Mog]

Be nice if they could get fiber to everyone. Or at least something to compete with Comcast.

I have seen where this company is rolling out in some neighborhoods.

My experience with Comcast has actually been pretty good as far as service goes. I'm overdue for playing the call and threaten to cancel to get a lower rate game, though.

 

[The Elf]

Morgantown and Mon County have weak to zero zoning regs. I don't have an issue with protecting green space...this particular issue is more about timing and cost. Especially when Morgantown has so many other green spaces/parks that could use that money for much needed repair.

I think you should begin a grassroots volunteer effort to repair the parks in association with next year’s MLK Day of Service initiative. I believe it would be good for your soul.....and the community.

 

[bornaneer]

I have seen where this company is rolling out in some neighborhoods.

My experience with Comcast has actually been pretty good as far as service goes. I'm overdue for playing the call and threaten to cancel to get a lower rate game, though.

A call sometimes works. I cut the TV cord with Comcast 18 months ago. I kept the high speed internet. After I cut the TV they were charging me $93 a month for Blast. I called to cancel and they gave me a $59 deal for a year. When the deal expired I called and without even asking for another deal they offered me a $49 a month for two years for the same Blast internet.

 

[rog1187]

I think you should begin a grassroots volunteer effort to repair the parks in association with next year’s MLK Day of Service initiative. I believe it would be good for your soul.....and the community.

I work on the fields/spaces I use...non of which are in Morgantown. When I see some sort of effort on the city of Morgantown to make it a priority I might change my mind. The town I utilize now has made it priority so they get my effort.

 

[dave]

I have seen where this company is rolling out in some neighborhoods.

My experience with Comcast has actually been pretty good as far as service goes. I'm overdue for playing the call and threaten to cancel to get a lower rate game, though.

I dont have a problem with comcast wifi. I just hope there is some competition for the good of customers.

Comcast just shut off my internet because their analytics showed that noise in their system originated near my house. I go without service for 2 days until their tech shows up and checks the lines at my house and to the box in my yard. Completely clear so he removed the block. I have never had issues with bad connection except when their folks just blocked me for no reason.

 

[The Elf]

I work on the fields/spaces I use...non of which are in Morgantown. When I see some sort of effort on the city of Morgantown to make it a priority I might change my mind. The town I utilize now has made it priority so they get my effort.

I was just funnin’ w/ you.

 

[rog1187]

I was just funnin’ w/ you.

I know. It's frustrating though to go to other towns across the State and in other areas and see how things can be. Morgantown should have the best or near the best in the State, but the city leadership has and is inept.

 

[rog1187]

@jray1350 you involved in this?