The baker won...
- Thread starter WVUCOOPER
- Start date
I honestly don’t know. There are plenty of rulings out there that are head scratchers. Do some of them (judges) let their personal beliefs cloud their judgment on applying the law? I would hope not.
I get it. There is always dissenting opinions in politics. I’ve always listened to those that want the opposite of me politically....if anything, just to learn about people. I understand the religious passion. I understand it more from those that practice the religion with the same passion of which they defend it. The fierce defense of a religious dominance over the nation and law is what I struggle to understand.
I don’t think anyone should be forced into performing a service for others. I’d like it if people just simply got together and forced the baker out of business through boycott. Not because he is wrong in his beliefs, and certainly not because he’s Christian.....but because his judgement and reasoning for refusal is unAmerican.
Now I get that it sounds judgemental to expect others to accept something that goes against what they see as the word of God. Yet, Christians accept these deviations from the righteous everyday. Very few of the Christians I’ve known have ever truly lived for a world that only embraces the pure as shifted through the filter of the Bible. That acceptance though, imo, is what America is all about. Sure, it was religious believers seeking a world where they wouldn’t be persecuted by other believers that believed something different....but it’s the same concept. We can function under a system of law that allows for liberty of belief. That, today, must also allow for non believers as well.
No church could replicate that scene prior to your invasion, correct? There was certainly a guiding consciousness in that moment for you, correct? Despite that moment not being tied to a certain doctrine, it has helped you come to a vision of the world, your place in it, and inner peace. Should your experience be less protected by our laws. Maybe homosexuality is reached through that same type of revelation.
My point is that no matter what, in America, we should all put the process of acceptance above all else. The gay couple should have walked away and found a baker that didn’t believe their existence was immoral. Not because that belief isn’t archaic and bigoted, but because they are Americans. The baker should have baked the cake. Not because he accepts homosexuality as moral, but because he is an American.
In America, any certain religion, no matter how popular, shouldn’t dictate the law.
The rest of your post certainly doesn’t jive with this. Why can’t you accept his lack of acceptance? You’re dictating a one way street. Im not even on this guy’s side but I see the contradiction easily. The fact is, his belief system demands acceptance and respect the same as mine, yours, and the two gentlemen who wanted a cake.
I asked earlier:
Should a predominantly gay bakery be forced to bake a cake for the Westboro Baptist Church which says “God Hates ****”? Hell no, but that would be discriminatory because of their religious beliefs. Right? How about something less divisive, like “Celebrating Traditional Marriage”? It’s an interesting question, but I guarantee it would be tested.
Sometimes you should just accept there is going to be hatred and bigotry and not stand on ceremony. This was one of those cases, but at the same time, who am I or you to judge his beliefs? He’s entitled to them and guaranteed as such by the Constitution. I’ve maintained, this was a case where no one wins.
"The baker did NOT refuse to SELL the couple a cake. He sold that same couple many cakes. But he refused to custom make a cake specifically designed for a same sex marriage. Justice Ginsburg is being intellectually dishonest here."
I did not know that.
I did not know that.
That’s why I said the couple should have just found a baker that was willing and accepted the bakers views.
The difficulty when examining this case and it’s relevance to law, imo, lies in what the nature of homosexuality is for someone like the baker. If, for example, the baker was a KKK member refusing to bake for an African American couple, due to his religious views, would the same protection apply?
To me this case can’t be about protecting Christians, or else the precedent is set to allow other bigotry and discrimination. It should simply be about the individual liberty to refuse commission. The lines get blurry when looking at issues of race-gender-religion .....homosexuality, to me, is no different.
And no to all of your questions...in my opinion, an artist or craftsman should have the ability to refuse commission for any reason.
But without forced desegregation in the South how much longer would an entire group of Americans have been held back? So I get the desire to force acceptance— but you’re right, you can’t force acceptance, and the blowback just makes it worse anyway.
Whichever way the believer wants it to work for the most part, from what I’ve seen.
Usually midterm elections act as a counter to the party in power. If they run on a platform of clawing back tariff power, they'd get my vote.
I have no idea how the nation is going to vote, FFS, the last election the 2 parties nominated Hillary and Donnie.
That's the best response I've received so far Coop (I've asked several on the Left) so essentially you are saying if the Democrats win back the House in a "wave election" they will do so by NOT running on any major legislative proposals or offerings, simply by being a 'counter' to Republicans in power. Counter to what?
For instance the '94 "wave election" was based on the 'Contract with America'. The 2010 "wave election" was based on widespread opposition to the ACA and Republican promises to repeal and replace it.
However Democrats will win the coming predicted (in the media) "Blue Wave" election without any such mandate?
OK
The question was do they win back the Congress running on this agenda? Leftist Democrats would vote against higher taxes on Foreign goods that hurt American manufacturing? That's what the voters want to see from Democrats?
Yes but the media keeps feeding us polling that indicates a "big blue Wave" is coming in the Fall. Are you saying they're lying or you don't believe them?
3 responses to what I thought was a straightforward response. If you are determined to argue with someone over the midterms, can I ask you to please find someone else? I give.
Homoesexuals equate their sexual preferences to race. I can't change the color of my skin, they most certainly can change who they sleep with or prefer to sleep with. It's choice vs Birthright. I always ask those who say being "gay" is not a choice...that they're born that way... OK...show me the 'gay chromosome'?
None of them can point to a "gay gene" that would have to be inherent pre- birth if their sexual preferences are a matter of their natural birth.
That Gay couple (and Homosexuals in general) are in reality trying to force their Lifestyles into normalcy by having the Culture admit that what they do is not only normal, but beautiful...enlightened even...freedom inspiring if you will. That's the real reason they picked on that cake baker, to force him to accept their Gay Marriage against his Religious convictions.
In addition we are to not only think of it (gay) as normal, but even better, more liberating, and therefore more socially acceptable and Truthful about how we all actually are or should be without the needless sexual repressions from organized Religion that simply stigmatize a more unrestrained exhibition of one's personal pursuit of sexual pleasures.
I've had many Gay folks admit this is what they're ultimately all about. Homosexuality can't be a 'Sin' as Christians call it... because not only were they born that way (God made me Gay) but it's a more honest expression of true sexual desire which God also gave them. (This is what they argue to me)
Only problem is...Almighty God doesn't lie and is NOT the author of confusion. He would not contradict his own words and call something 'Sin' that is in fact natural. Homosexuality is NOT normal. All Gay people first reject the Word of Almighty God before they justify using him as an excuse to perform their 'Sin'...which in fact is willful disobedience. All folks who either accept Homosexuality or claim it to be normal either reject Almighty God's actual existence or the infallibility of his Holy Word...or both.
Fact.
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I know...I just like proving how you folks on the Left "ain't got no game".
Spastics.
I'm the way I want our Mountaineers to get when they go up by a double digit lead on teams. Step on their throats! Embarrass 'em!
Well then, you’re just a little kid then aren’t chaI know...I just like proving how you folks on the Left "ain't got no game".
Spastics.
I'm the way I want our Mountaineers to get when they go up by a double digit lead on teams. Step on their throats! Embarrass 'em!
I'm coming down the court...with the rock in my hand...coming at YOU boomer!!!!!
Daring you to show me "what 'cha got" to stop me as I drive to the hole and rise up to slam dunk right in your weak Leftist face?
Take THAT!!!!!
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Really? Let’s see...the latest “game” you’re “bringing” is asking liberals on this discussion board what the democrats are going to use as talking points to win the midterm elections, right?I'm coming down the court...with the rock in my hand...coming at YOU boomer!!!!!
Daring you to show me "what 'cha got" to stop me as I drive to the hole and rise up to slam dunk right on your weak Leftist face?
Take THAT!!!!!
Whoa...you’re such a bad man.
You talk more crap boom. I asked you the same question! If 'ya got something, let's hear it. If not....go over to that corner & sit down before I dunk on you again!
Want some more of this boom?
I don't see a "Blue Wave" coming. I think the media is lying. Democrats don't have a compelling message...except hate...unbridled hatred for Trump.
Can they improve on his record? Are the American people upset with his job performance? Do they prefer what the Democrats are offering, if so what is that?
Voters prefer Nancy Pelosi to Donald J Trump? Voters regret voting for Trump? He hasn't made the Left rudderless? They have a legislative plan they are articulating that's better than Trump's effort to devolve power out of Washington and 'drain the swamp' to make America great again?
Voters know this?
You do too?
OK...show me what 'cha got, tired of hearing 'bout this Damn big "Blue Wave" Where is it coming from? Based on what? Don't just talk sh*t...show me!!!!!
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1) I’ve never once referred to a “blue wave”I don't see a "Blue Wave" coming. I think the media is lying. Democrats don't have a compelling message...except hate...unbridled hatred for Trump.
Can they improve on his record? Are the American people upset with his job performance? Do they prefer what the Democrats are offering, if so what is that?
Voters prefer Nancy Pelosi to Donald J Trump? Voters regret voting for Trump? He hasn't made the Left rudderless? They have a legislative plan they are articulating that's better than Trump's effort to devolve power out of Washington and 'drain the swamp' to make America great again?
Voters know this?
You do too?
OK...show me what 'cha got, tired of hearing 'bout this Damn big "Blue Wave" Where is it coming from? Based on what? Don't just talk sh*t...show me!!!!!
2) if the media (that is most major networks) were discussing a Democrat win during midterms, it was probably prompted by polling numbers they or other orgs put in the field
3) I think some Democrats will run the resistance message to win in their districts. Some will run on the environment. Some will run on anti-protectionist policy. Some will run on specific relating to that specific area. My Governor race features a Dem candidate running on attacking inequalities for women and universal pre-k education, among other issues. This “fit on a hat” message that you’re looking for isn’t always the best way to speak to voters, imo.
If all you said is true (and I believe you make some good points here as far as local races) then all talk of a "Blue Wave" which is all we've been hearing about for the past six months in the MSM is total BS. You're either confirming they're FOS or you are.
Read my post "The Left ain't got no game" and see how much of what that political analyst has wrong? I know it's a Fox news piece, but he's a Democrat who is quoted in it....so it's OK for you to read it.
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CNN ran an article like a week two weeks ago talking about the Democrats didn’t have the mojo they once thought. I don’t know where that fits amongst your internal dialogue of superiority, but it seems relevant to what you’re posting.
I wish I could brag, but folks a lot smarter than me have known there is no "blue wave" out there. What's amazing to me is how many Leftists...many of them on this board...still believe that tripe.
Read their posts. @Keyser76 , @moe @bamaEER @countryroads89 @MountaineerWV @Original Mountaineer1 ... at various times they've all predicted a backlash against Trump coming in the Fall.
