What the Left is missing about poor Blacks

[atlkvb]

Enterprise zones don't work. Charter schools don't do a better job than public schools.

There is enormous data on both that shows this.

If they don't work (enterprise zones) why do Democrats oppose them? Why not just let the Republicans set them up to fail so Leftists can say "see told 'ya"?

If charter schools don't work, why are parents signing up on wait lists to get their kids into the few that are operating?

Where enterprise zones are allowed, they are wildly popular and successful. Same with charter schools. That's why Leftists oppose both.

 

[wvu2007]

Now to be sure, I've been posting about this Trump initiative since almost the day he's taken Office. I serve on his Minority outreach business advisory panel which is a component of this. We help identify small business ventures, procure seed funding for them, as well as help them with applying for tax free enterprise zones and writing effective business plans to present to investors. It's called the "Reducing poverty in America by promoting opportunity and Economic mobility" Executive order.

Or quite simply the "work opportunity" act. I know it's not reported, and very little of it is known, but we've been at it now for over a year and I'm telling you it's making a HUGE difference with Black voters. What I can't figure out, is why the Left isn't for this? What better way to improve the economic fortunes of minorities in this country, than through meaningful work and entrepreneurship?

Excerpt from article:
"The executive order directs federal agencies to review the some 80 federal anti-poverty programs, consolidate where there is redundancy and overlap, and look to reform by applying the principles of hard work and self-sufficiency. Let's make sure that every dollar spent goes to those truly in need and that those dollars are spent to maximize the likelihood that the recipients will get on their feet and become independent, productive, income-earning citizens"

Dr. Ben Carson through HUD is applying these principles in his work to reform that agency, and Education Secretary Dr. Betsy DeVos is using a similar approach in her drive to increase school choice for poor Parents.

It's not about how much money you spend on the poor, it's about how effective the money you spend is

Full article:
https://townhall.com/columnists/sta...lly-important-antipoverty-initiative-n2471814

Excellent!

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

No the only thing these people are concerned about is getting these kids out of failing Government run schools. I thought Leftists were "Pro choice"? Why can't Parents pick the school of their "choice"?

Where in rural Appalachia will residents have a choice?

 

[atlkvb]

Where in rural Appalachia will residents have a choice?

With virtual classrooms they will have many more options.
https://www.connectionsacademy.com/georgia-virtual-school

 

[MountaineerWV]

Where in rural Appalachia will residents have a choice?

We are going to trust the education of our youth to computer technology via "digital classrooms"??? Yeah, that'll fix the problems and "motivation" that is lacking in many students these days. Could you imagine what we would be like in high school if we were taught this way......

Now, technology in the classroom......GREAT! But using technology to "teach"........no thanks.

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

With virtual classrooms they will have many more options.
https://www.connectionsacademy.com/georgia-virtual-school

sure.......and these kids will surely get there sleep

 

[wvu2007]

sure.......and these kids will surely get there sleep

Don't you even go their!

 

[Shirley Knott]

Same thing. Self sufficiency. But the Right isn't opposed to poor folks working instead of collecting Welfare checks. Leftists are.

I don't think the leftists are against welfare for the poor, as long as they are collecting welfare they can be controlled in their voting choices...

 

[atlkvb]

sure.......and these kids will surely get there sleep

For as many excuses and "yeah but" answers you guys throw out to insist these kids can't learn why aren't you looking for reasons they can learn?

It reminds me of what Bush called the "soft bigotry of low expectations". Suppose we had your attitudes about feeding them? Housing them? Getting goods or other services to them?

You'd rather argue for the failed education system that's failing them now, insisting nothing else can/will work? I reject that.

We send billions around the world trying to help people more destitute than Appalachain Americans recover and survive yet we cannot reinvest money we are already spending on these people to find more efficient and effective ways to get better results for them?

Why?

All to protect Democrat politicians handing out Democrat run "crumbs" to poor people so they can keep their Democrat power over other people's money to pay for the handout crumbs!

Nancy Pelosi called taxpayers keeping their own money "crumbs". Yet the real "crumbs" are these Democrat run transfer payments using taxpayer's money designed to keep folks in Appalachia and inner cities trapped in poverty, sub standard schools, Welfare, hopelessness and despair.

There is a better way and President Trump is challenging Federal providers of this public assistance to find it. You folks on the Left who claim to care so much about the poor don't care as much about them as you do about protecting Democrat power and politicos who weild it.

 

[atlkvb]

We are going to trust the education of our youth to computer technology via "digital classrooms"??? Yeah, that'll fix the problems and "motivation" that is lacking in many students these days. Could you imagine what we would be like in high school if we were taught this way......

Now, technology in the classroom......GREAT! But using technology to "teach"........no thanks.

As I said earlier in the thread. Classroons can be set up anywhere. We can use existing schools, homes, churches, abandoned buildings, even build new schools. We don't lack resources, we lack effective uses of our resources.

We don't demand excellence. We excuse and allow failure. Introducing vouchers to create competition in education energizes poor Families and arms them with the means to find alternatives to the substandard choices they have depending only on poorly run Government education. We can offer them better choices and virtual classrooms, charter schools, or alternate private schools funded through vouchers transferring the money directly to them instead of through Government bureaucrats as a solution for better choices.

 

[boomerwv]

If they don't work (enterprise zones) why do Democrats oppose them? Why not just let the Republicans set them up to fail so Leftists can say "see told 'ya"?

If charter schools don't work, why are parents signing up on wait lists to get their kids into the few that are operating?

Where enterprise zones are allowed, they are wildly popular and successful. Same with charter schools. That's why Leftists oppose both.

Can you support those statements with data? I can mine.

 

[atlkvb]

Can you support those statements with data? I can mine.

Yes. Black parents support school choice vouchers overwhelmingly and I have not seen polls indicating otherwise. Enterprise zones are currently operating successfully all over the country and where they are not it's because Democrat party bosses in inner cities restrict their operations.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

I'd love to get my electricity from another company.........can I do that?

In fact, you can. It will be provided by your current provider but you can purchase it from a variety of sources. All you have to do is go through the quarterly offerings and pick the cheapest one. Might save you $10-20 a month, but, it’s something.

 

[boomerwv]

Yes. Black parents support school choice vouchers overwhelmingly and I have not seen polls indicating otherwise. Enterprise zones are currently operating successfully all over the country and where they are not it's because Democrat party bosses in inner cities restrict their operations.

Enterprise zones.

http://www.aei.org/publication/do-enterprise-zones-really-work-to-lift-inner-cities/

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2014/01/10/Enterprise-Zones-Bipartisan-Failure

http://calaborfed.org/issues/cut_waste_fraud_and_abuse_in_enterprise_zone_tax_giveaways/

Charter Schools

http://www.data-first.org/questions...egular-public-schools-in-student-performance/

Vouchers

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/02/...surprise-researchers-as-devos-era-begins.html

To sum it up, Enterprise Zones don't work, charter schools are on average no better than public schools, and vouchers actually harm students using them.

 

[atlkvb]

Enterprise zones.

http://www.aei.org/publication/do-enterprise-zones-really-work-to-lift-inner-cities/

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2014/01/10/Enterprise-Zones-Bipartisan-Failure

http://calaborfed.org/issues/cut_waste_fraud_and_abuse_in_enterprise_zone_tax_giveaways/

Charter Schools

http://www.data-first.org/questions...egular-public-schools-in-student-performance/

Vouchers

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/02/...surprise-researchers-as-devos-era-begins.html

To sum it up, Enterprise Zones don't work, charter schools are on average no better than public schools, and vouchers actually harm students using them.

I will respond to each of these. We'll be offering "dueling data" but I will try to respond with facts rebutting the assertions in your links OK?

Let me read them all, pick out the fallacies and link you to rebuttals that clearly show charter schools are popular and do work, and enterprise zones are equally as popular and also work well where they are allowed.

While I'm reseaching can you tell me why Black Parents hold positions on wait lists to get into Charter schools, or why investors & entrepreneurs enthusiastically embrace enterprise zones if neither works as you posted here?

 

[MountaineerWV]

So, if it's against your "belief" then those facts are "fallacies".......you are so full of yourself.

 

[MountaineerWV]

In fact, you can. It will be provided by your current provider but you can purchase it from a variety of sources. All you have to do is go through the quarterly offerings and pick the cheapest one. Might save you $10-20 a month, but, it’s something.

Bullsh!t

 

[atlkvb]

So, if it's against your "belief" then those facts are "fallacies".......you are so full of yourself.

It's not about my "belief" MWV. I don't know how many Black parents or Families you know but I know many... in fact several. Almost all of them both embrace and utilize charter options or Private schools. Most pay on their own but a few could use vouchers to improve their options.

I'm finding impressive data doing my research to directly confront @Boomerwv's assertion that they don't work. I know better and I'm hoping my research demonstrates that to him.

As for the enterprise zones, none of the data he cited shows "non performance" of business or employment where they are allowed to operate. At the worst his data shows "no difference" which is absurd because where there were once no jobs and then suddenly there are jobs how can that be measured as "no difference"?

Leftist politicians mix data from metropolitan areas in with data from enterprise zones to diffuse the impact of businesses in those targeted distressed areas. It's a clever way to say they don't make an overall difference, but nowhere are they either rejected by the communities that request the designations as 'non performing' or produce 'no difference' in those communities.

 

[MountaineerWV]

It's not about my "belief" MWV. I don't know how Black parents or Families you know but I know many...several. Almost all of them both embrace and utilize charter options or Private schools. Most pay on their own but a few could use vouchers to improve their options.

I'm finding inpressive data doing my research to directly confront @Boomerwv assertion that they don't work. I know better and I'm hoping my research demonstrates that to him.

Whatever "research" you put together, the opposite can also be found. I guess your "research" isn't full of "fallacies".......opcorn:

Facts are that the overall data done by third parties show that charter schools are no better off than public schools.

 

[atlkvb]

Whatever "research" you put together, the opposite can also be found. I guess your "research" isn't full of "fallacies".......opcorn:

Facts are that the overall data done by third parties show that charter schools are no better off than public schools.

Well to me there's data, and then there's what Parents who actually utilize the options do. You do not find poor Black Parents either opposed to Charters or refusing to attend them in preference to Public schools. You just don't see that.

What you do see MWV is organized opposition to Charter schools primarily from Teacher Unions, but also from politicians who simply refuse to allow Parents to decide where those dollars go instead of allowing themselves to direct where those dollars go. That is essentially the main argument here. Who gets to spend the money...bureaucrats or Parents?

Arguing Charter schools don't work, or don't work any better than Public schools is not born out by Parents who are not part of any "polling data".

 

[dave]

What is the Right missing about poor Whites? lol.

Apparently we didnt teach you act to act

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Bullsh!t

Lol, it’s not, but ok.

 

[MountaineerWV]

Well to me there's data, and then there's what Parents who actually utilize the options do. You do not find poor Black Parents either opposed to Charters or refusing to attend them in preference to Public schools. You just don't see that.

What you do see MWV is organized opposition to Charter schools primarily from Teacher Unions, but also from politicians who simply refuse to allow Parents to decide where those dollars go instead of allowing themselves to direct where those dollars go. That is essentially the main argument here. Who gets to spend the money...bureaucrats or Parents?

Arguing Charter schools don't work, or don't work any better than Public schools is not born out by Parents who are not part of any "polling data".

So, you accept these type of "polling"???? Interesting.......then if you take the opinions of these people as "factual information", then you must also think that Trump is doing a horrible job as president since his polling numbers have been historically low........opcorn:

 

[MountaineerWV]

Lol, it’s not, but ok.

Ok, you are right.....it's just plain horsesh!t......

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Well to me there's data, and then there's what Parents who actually utilize the options do. You do not find poor Black Parents either opposed to Charters or refusing to attend them in preference to Public schools. You just don't see that.

What you do see MWV is organized opposition to Charter schools primarily from Teacher Unions, but also from politicians who simply refuse to allow Parents to decide where those dollars go instead of allowing themselves to direct where those dollars go. That is essentially the main argument here. Who gets to spend the money...bureaucrats or Parents?

Arguing Charter schools don't work, or don't work any better than Public schools is not born out by Parents who are not part of any "polling data".

Make no mistake, his opposition to it is borne from his affiliation with the school system.

Another argument you will hear is that they aren’t held to the same standards.

I pay to send my kids to private school because I can. I’d love to give inner city parents the option to do the same.

 

[dave]

Lol, it’s not, but ok.

You are correct of course.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Ok, you are right.....it's just plain horsesh!t......

I concede it may not be in your area. I assumed you could do it everywhere but I don’t know. I do it every quarter as it’s offered in my area. It takes about 5 mins. I had a friend of mine from Constellation show me.

 

[atlkvb]

on your ideas that charter schools are no better than Public schools

Charter Schools

http://www.data-first.org/questions...egular-public-schools-in-student-performance/

A study among 8 Public school districts (including Atlanta) that show charter schools outperform their Public counterparts.

Highlights:

• “After considering the per-pupil funding differences across the two sectors, Atlanta public charter schools produced an average of 2.16 more points on the NAEP reading assessment and 2.26 more points on the NAEP math exam for each $1,000 in funding than Atlanta [traditional public schools].”

• “In Atlanta traditional public schools, average NAEP scores were 257 for reading and 272 for math, and per-pupil revenue was $16,429. In Atlanta public charter schools, average NAEP scores were 258 points for reading and 273 for math, and per-pupil revenue was $14,490.”

The report concludes that “public charter schools result in a bigger bang for fewer bucks than traditional public schools … Since educational resources are limited, charter schools look to be an especially attractive vehicle for delivering education to students more productively.”

Full report:
https://georgiaopportunity.org/repo...MI1sTCpITF2gIVgoJpCh3RiwUbEAAYAiAAEgIaIvD_BwE

more....(primer)

http://blog.acton.org/archives/9800...MI1sTCpITF2gIVgoJpCh3RiwUbEAAYAyAAEgJ2avD_BwE (links provided inside web page)

more...

Stanford National charter school study (most comprehensive done to date)

Summary conclusions:

"The analysis of the pooled 27 states shows that charter schools now advance the learning gains of their students’ more than traditional public schools in reading. Improvement is seen in the academic growth of charter students in math, which is now comparable to the learning gains in traditional public schools. On average, students attending charter schools have eight additional days of learning in reading and the same days of learning in math per year compared to their peers in traditional public schools. The range of impacts of each scenario on the overall quality of the charter sector is striking. The new average levels of growth range from .016 standard deviations (which equates to 12 days of learning) under Scenario A to nearly .05 standard deviations under Scenario B, a substantial gain of 36 more days of learning per year than in comparable TPS(traditional public schools)

Full analysis:
http://credo.stanford.edu/documents/NCSS 2013 Final Draft.pdf


Latest Department of Education Study showing charter schools outperfomring TPS (Traditional Public schools)

excerpt:
Florida’s charter school students performed better on state exams and made greater learning gains than their peers in traditional public schools in 2015-16, and racial achievement gaps were smaller in charter schools, according to a new state report


https://www.edreform.com/2017/04/ac...-schools-outperform-traditional-public-shows/

It should be noted that as the trend toward charters grows, compiling data from the newer schools is more difficult to measure them long term against more data from TPS(traditional public schools) However as more data is collected and compared, charter schools clearly outperform their TPS counterparts.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

on your ideas that charter schools are no better than Public schools



A study among 8 Public school districts (including Atlanta) that show charter schools outperform their Public counterparts.

Highlights:

• “After considering the per-pupil funding differences across the two sectors, Atlanta public charter schools produced an average of 2.16 more points on the NAEP reading assessment and 2.26 more points on the NAEP math exam for each $1,000 in funding than Atlanta [traditional public schools].”

• “In Atlanta traditional public schools, average NAEP scores were 257 for reading and 272 for math, and per-pupil revenue was $16,429. In Atlanta public charter schools, average NAEP scores were 258 points for reading and 273 for math, and per-pupil revenue was $14,490.”

The report concludes that “public charter schools result in a bigger bang for fewer bucks than traditional public schools … Since educational resources are limited, charter schools look to be an especially attractive vehicle for delivering education to students more productively.”

Full report:
https://georgiaopportunity.org/repo...MI1sTCpITF2gIVgoJpCh3RiwUbEAAYAiAAEgIaIvD_BwE

more....(primer)

http://blog.acton.org/archives/9800...MI1sTCpITF2gIVgoJpCh3RiwUbEAAYAyAAEgJ2avD_BwE (links provided inside web page)

more...

Stanford National charter school study (most comprehensive done to date)

Summary conclusions:

"The analysis of the pooled 27 states shows that charter schools now advance the learning gains of their students’ more than traditional public schools in reading. Improvement is seen in the academic growth of charter students in math, which is now comparable to the learning gains in traditional public schools. On average, students attending charter schools have eight additional days of learning in reading and the same days of learning in math per year compared to their peers in traditional public schools. The range of impacts of each scenario on the overall quality of the charter sector is striking. The new average levels of growth range from .016 standard deviations (which equates to 12 days of learning) under Scenario A to nearly .05 standard deviations under Scenario B, a substantial gain of 36 more days of learning per year than in comparable TPS(traditional public schools)

Full analysis:
http://credo.stanford.edu/documents/NCSS 2013 Final Draft.pdf


Latest Department of Education Study showing charter schools outperfomring TPS (Traditional Public schools)

excerpt:
Florida’s charter school students performed better on state exams and made greater learning gains than their peers in traditional public schools in 2015-16, and racial achievement gaps were smaller in charter schools, according to a new state report



https://www.edreform.com/2017/04/ac...-schools-outperform-traditional-public-shows/

It should be noted that as the trend toward charters grows, compiling data from the newer schools is more difficult to measure them long term against more data from TPS(traditional public schools) However as more data is collected and compared, charter schools clearly outperform their TPS counterparts.

Weird, these articles seem to indicate charter schools are working. That’s bizarre.

 

[dave]

Weird, these articles seem to indicate charter schools are working. That’s bizarre.

What would stanford know?

 

[atlkvb]

Weird, these articles seem to indicate charter schools are working. That’s bizarre.

Amazing isn't it? and you know something else DvlDog? Most of these studies have no more than a few year's data. Charters are opposed in so many areas by Teacher unions and face so many more restrictions in others, it's often difficult to get reliable data. But where they are operating without restrictions (here in Atlanta for instance) they flourish and crush TPS (traditional Public schools)

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Ok, you are right.....it's just plain horsesh!t......

Here ya go. If you live in WV then you don’t have an option.

http://competitiveenergy.org/consumer-tools/state-by-state-links/

 

[atlkvb]

On your suggestion that enterprise zones do not work:

Enterprise zones.

http://www.aei.org/publication/do-enterprise-zones-really-work-to-lift-inner-cities/

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2014/01/10/Enterprise-Zones-Bipartisan-Failure

http://calaborfed.org/issues/cut_waste_fraud_and_abuse_in_enterprise_zone_tax_giveaways/

Comprehensive study on 70 different enterprise zones:

excerpt:
"It measures zone performance in terms of the difference in the percent changes in employment and business establishment between zones and their regions. Next, it conducts a survey to investigate how zones are structured and managed. Combining survey results and zone performance data, it uses regression models to identify determinants of zone success. Finally, it includes case studies of three zones, all with an above-average performance to further validate previous statistical findings and to provide insights on the operation of 'successful' zones.

Successful zones are typically those which are small, actively managed, with a simple program structure, located in a growing region, and with some basic location advantages".

Full study:
https://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/vi...psredir=1&article=1015&context=penniur_papers

more....

Ohio enterprise zones (a comprehensive analysis)

excerpt:
The Ohio enterprise zone program was created in 1981, making it one of the oldest and most well-established programs in the country. It is also an expansive program, with 381 active enterprise zones in distressed and non-distressed areas. As importantly, Ohio has an excellent statewide database with the cumulative cost of incentives and benefits from investment and employment at the level of both the enterprise zone and individual firm


Full analysis:
http://www.skidmore.edu/~bturner/Who Benefits When Enterprise Zones Are Zoned-Out.pdf

more....

How to design effective enterprise zones

excerpt:
This body of experience at the state level bolsters the contention that a federal enterprise zone program, with its more powerful tax incentives, could have a decisive effect on the economy of America's inner cities.

Full analysis
https://www.heritage.org/taxes/report/how-design-effective-enterprise-zone-legislation

(to be sure...there are of course competing analysis that argue against the success of enterprise zones. They mostly argue no improvement in the areas where the zones are designated. The raw data however indicates where they are offered and not restricted either by local ordinance or legislation they are enthusiastically embraced and in fact do work to improve the areas so designated)

Polls on charter schools and enterprise zones

75% of millennials support school choice
https://www.the74million.org/articl...ity-of-americans-like-trumps-20-billion-plan/

Black parents overwhelmingly support school choice

• The American Federation for Children National School Choice survey (Jan. 2016) showed 76 percent of African-Americans support school choice.
• BAEO poll (Aug. 2015) showed the majority of African-American voters surveyed support charter schools – Tennessee 67%, Louisiana 65%, New Jersey 65%, Alabama 54%.
• Parents for Educational Freedom in North Carolina poll of African-Americans (June 2016) found 56% favor public charter schools and 59% favor school choice.

Link:
https://www.federationforchildren.org/african-american-support-charter-schools/

Black people support vouchers, Black leaders don't
https://www.theroot.com/black-people-support-vouchers-black-leaders-don-t-who-1795711457

On enterprise zones;

American's views on Socialism vs Capitalism are little changed

excerpt:
"Even though Bernie Sanders, a self-described "Democratic socialist," has generated strong support for his presidential campaign, Americans' image of socialism is no better now than it was six years ago'

Link
http://news.gallup.com/poll/191354/americans-views-socialism-capitalism-little-changed.aspx

The Impact of enterprise Zones on urban manufacturing estblishments

excerpt:

"by exploiting the establishment‐level data to examine gross as well as net changes, the analysis finds that zones have a positive effect on the outcomes of new establishments and a negative effect on the outcomes of previously existing establishments'.

link
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/pam.20006

(in the interests of fairness one can link to just as many studies indicating enterprise zones do not work. However the raw data does not indicate 'non performance' where they are allowed to operate, in fact it is the opposite. They are then evaluated using shifting measurements but never given credit for providing economic opportunities where none previously existed, and that is their primary purpose)

 

[atlkvb]

So, you accept these type of "polling"???? Interesting.......then if you take the opinions of these people as "factual information", then you must also think that Trump is doing a horrible job as president since his polling numbers have been historically low........opcorn:

No quite the opposite. The "polls" show Trump is wildly unpopular correct? Yet, among his supporters or in districts where his support was strong last election those polls do not show the same resistance to his policies.

There is a disconnect among those States where he ran strong and remains popular, and most of those polls which show him disliked by more than half of those polled. If those polls are accurate, surely his support in areas that elected him would reflect those numbers yet they don't. Why not?

 

[atlkvb]

Idiot? I remember the old saying that my parents once said...."you can lead a blind horse to water, but you can't make him drink".........Get it?

You can also lead a thirsty horse to water, but a few might be too stupid to realize what it is.

 

[boomerwv]

On your suggestion that enterprise zones do not work:



Comprehensive study on 70 different enterprise zones:

excerpt:
"It measures zone performance in terms of the difference in the percent changes in employment and business establishment between zones and their regions. Next, it conducts a survey to investigate how zones are structured and managed. Combining survey results and zone performance data, it uses regression models to identify determinants of zone success. Finally, it includes case studies of three zones, all with an above-average performance to further validate previous statistical findings and to provide insights on the operation of 'successful' zones.

Successful zones are typically those which are small, actively managed, with a simple program structure, located in a growing region, and with some basic location advantages".

Full study:
https://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/vi...psredir=1&article=1015&context=penniur_papers

more....

Ohio enterprise zones (a comprehensive analysis)

excerpt:
The Ohio enterprise zone program was created in 1981, making it one of the oldest and most well-established programs in the country. It is also an expansive program, with 381 active enterprise zones in distressed and non-distressed areas. As importantly, Ohio has an excellent statewide database with the cumulative cost of incentives and benefits from investment and employment at the level of both the enterprise zone and individual firm


Full analysis:
http://www.skidmore.edu/~bturner/Who Benefits When Enterprise Zones Are Zoned-Out.pdf

more....

How to design effective enterprise zones

excerpt:
This body of experience at the state level bolsters the contention that a federal enterprise zone program, with its more powerful tax incentives, could have a decisive effect on the economy of America's inner cities.

Full analysis
https://www.heritage.org/taxes/report/how-design-effective-enterprise-zone-legislation

(to be sure...there are of course competing analysis that argue against the success of enterprise zones. They mostly argue no improvement in the areas where the zones are designated. The raw data however indicates where they are offered and not restricted either by local ordinance or legislation they are enthusiastically embraced and in fact do work to improve the areas so designated)

Polls on charter schools and enterprise zones

75% of millennials support school choice
https://www.the74million.org/articl...ity-of-americans-like-trumps-20-billion-plan/

Black parents overwhelmingly support school choice

• The American Federation for Children National School Choice survey (Jan. 2016) showed 76 percent of African-Americans support school choice.
• BAEO poll (Aug. 2015) showed the majority of African-American voters surveyed support charter schools – Tennessee 67%, Louisiana 65%, New Jersey 65%, Alabama 54%.
• Parents for Educational Freedom in North Carolina poll of African-Americans (June 2016) found 56% favor public charter schools and 59% favor school choice.

Link:
https://www.federationforchildren.org/african-american-support-charter-schools/

Black people support vouchers, Black leaders don't
https://www.theroot.com/black-people-support-vouchers-black-leaders-don-t-who-1795711457

On enterprise zones;

American's views on Socialism vs Capitalism are little changed

excerpt:
"Even though Bernie Sanders, a self-described "Democratic socialist," has generated strong support for his presidential campaign, Americans' image of socialism is no better now than it was six years ago'

Link
http://news.gallup.com/poll/191354/americans-views-socialism-capitalism-little-changed.aspxink;

The Impact of enterprise Zones on urban manufacturing estblishments

excerpt:

"by exploiting the establishment‐level data to examine gross as well as net changes, the analysis finds that zones have a positive effect on the outcomes of new establishments and a negative effect on the outcomes of previously existing establishments'.

link
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/pam.20006

(in the interests of fairness one can link to just as many studies indicating enterprise zones do not work. However the raw data does not indicate 'non performance' where they are allowed to operate, in fact it is the opposite. They are then evaluated using shifting measurements but never given credit for providing economic opportunities where none previously existed, and that is their primary purpose)

In urban areas, where there are lots of students, charter schools could have more promise. Private schools often are for profit enterprises that don't provide the services they claim. Same issue happening with for profit universities really

As far as Enterprise zones go, I think the problem is that they are leveraged by corporations without providing much benefit to people in the area. workers are brought in or jobs are simply lost elsewhere, so it is an overall wash.

I would rather see more focus on developing local businesses that serve the community and are owned and operated by local residents.

This isn't in a vacuum though, issues such as policing, access to quality healthcare, and environmental racism/justice have to be addressed as well. It's not only about jobs.

 

[atlkvb]

In urban areas, where there are lots of students, charter schools could have more promise. Private schools often are for profit enterprises that don't provide the services they claim. Same issue happening with for profit universities really

As far as Enterprise zones go, I think the problem is that they are leveraged by corporations without providing much benefit to people in the area. workers are brought in or jobs are simply lost elsewhere, so it is an overall wash.

I would rather see more focus on developing local businesses that serve the community and are owned and operated by local residents.

This isn't in a vacuum though, issues such as policing, access to quality healthcare, and environmental racism/justice have to be addressed as well. It's not only about jobs.

That's a fair point, but the bottom line is where enterprise zones are set up jobs do come in and replace structural unemployment. The data is mixed as to their overall impact, but as one of the links I provided indicated (why I offered it) enterprise zones work best where businesses are targeted, small, located in areas where diversity is rich, and some of those other things you mentioned are also present.

By any measurement, enterprise zones are better alternatives than Government transfer payments (Welfare) or no economic activity at all.

 

[atlkvb]

In urban areas, where there are lots of students, charter schools could have more promise. Private schools often are for profit enterprises that don't provide the services they claim. Same issue happening with for profit universities really

As far as Enterprise zones go, I think the problem is that they are leveraged by corporations without providing much benefit to people in the area. workers are brought in or jobs are simply lost elsewhere, so it is an overall wash.

I would rather see more focus on developing local businesses that serve the community and are owned and operated by local residents.

This isn't in a vacuum though, issues such as policing, access to quality healthcare, and environmental racism/justice have to be addressed as well. It's not only about jobs.

The evidence of Charter schools where they are allowed to operate without heavy limits or restrictions is that they outperform TPS (traditional public schools) The most dramatic increases are seen where Public schools perform most deficiently (inner cities) and unfortunately I couldn't directly compare those statistics for you. Educators tend to mix school data system wide, and the few better performing Public schools tend to wash out the very poorly performing inner city schools where charters are more effective. But even allowing for that statistical anomaly, Charter schools still outperform TPS overall, and if you include existing Private schools into the data TPS get buried.

 

[atlkvb]

Ok, you are right.....it's just plain horsesh!t......

I do support the idea of allowing utility companies, cable companies, insurance companies, and health care providers, the ability to compete anywhere, even across State lines to offer consumers as many choices as possible. I am against monopolies in any service and the more competition and choices consumers have (even for education) the better services they will be able to choose from.

 

[boomerwv]

The evidence of Charter schools where they are allowed to operate without heavy limits or restrictions is that they outperform TPS (traditional public schools) The most dramatic increases are seen where Public schools perform most deficiently (inner cities) and unfortunately I couldn't directly compare those statistics for you. Educators tend to mix school data system wide, and the few better performing Public schools tend to wash out the very poorly performing inner city schools where charters are more effective. But even allowing for that statistical anomaly, Charter schools still outperform TPS overall, and if you include existing Private schools into the data TPS get buried.

Those schools are typically criminally underfunded. I also wonder if there is an inherent bias on charter schools getting, on average, students more likely to succeed in either setting than TPS. Even though charters are public and can't really turn people away, the students who are least likely to finish may just not even bother with charter schools while they are legally still required to be in a school so they default back to the TPS. Regardless of everything else there will always be some percentage of students who are only there because they have to be and have no interest in success, whatever the reason for that is.

Like I said earlier, charter schools may have some advantages in some situations. My really issue is with voucher programs. Not because poor students shouldn't have access to private education if they choose, but rather because I feel that many private schools are taking advantage of it without actually delivering superior educational services. I would much rather see those funds used to strengthen public education.