if indeed other countries are putting a tax on our products...which we believe to be the best in the world in most cases...then why is it unfair for us to impose the same situation on their products?. Is it the percentage that Trump is asking for too high? or is our economy built to operate with a trade deficit?......somebody explain
Serious question about the tariff thing
- Thread starter Snow Sled Baby
- Start date
It's outmoded "free trade" thinking. People have forgotten or simply never learned about America's history employing protectionist policies to build the greatest economic powerhouse in history.
The American School, also known as the "National System", represents three different yet related constructs in politics, policy and philosophy. It was the American policy from the 1860s to the 1970s, waxing and waning in actual degrees and details of implementation. Historian Michael Lind describes it as a coherent applied economic philosophy with logical and conceptual relationships with other economic ideas.[1]
It is the macroeconomic philosophy that dominated United States national policies from the time of the American Civil War until the mid-twentieth century.[2][3][4][5][6][7] Closely related to mercantilism, it can be seen as contrary to classical economics. It consisted of these three core policies:
The American School's key elements were promoted by John Q. Adams and his National Republican Party, Henry Clay and the Whig Party, and Abraham Lincoln through the early Republican Party which embraced, implemented, and maintained this economic system.[13]
During its American System period the United States grew into the largest economy in the world with the highest standard of living, surpassing the British Empire by the 1880s.[14]
https://infogalactic.com/info/American_School_(economics)
FTR I'd rather see a publicly owned National Bank than the private Federal Reserve system we currently have.
The American School, also known as the "National System", represents three different yet related constructs in politics, policy and philosophy. It was the American policy from the 1860s to the 1970s, waxing and waning in actual degrees and details of implementation. Historian Michael Lind describes it as a coherent applied economic philosophy with logical and conceptual relationships with other economic ideas.[1]
It is the macroeconomic philosophy that dominated United States national policies from the time of the American Civil War until the mid-twentieth century.[2][3][4][5][6][7] Closely related to mercantilism, it can be seen as contrary to classical economics. It consisted of these three core policies:
- protecting industry through selective high tariffs (especially 1861–1932) and through subsidies (especially 1932–70)
- government investments in infrastructure creating targeted internal improvements (especially in transportation)
- a national bank with policies that promote the growth of productive enterprises rather than speculation.[8][9][10][11]
The American School's key elements were promoted by John Q. Adams and his National Republican Party, Henry Clay and the Whig Party, and Abraham Lincoln through the early Republican Party which embraced, implemented, and maintained this economic system.[13]
During its American System period the United States grew into the largest economy in the world with the highest standard of living, surpassing the British Empire by the 1880s.[14]
https://infogalactic.com/info/American_School_(economics)
FTR I'd rather see a publicly owned National Bank than the private Federal Reserve system we currently have.
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Here's an interesting read about the current state of global economic affairs.
[URL='https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/03/02/the-myth-of-global-markets-explains-why-the-dc-uniparty-view-potus-trump-as-a-risk-to-their-world-order/']The Myth of Global Markets Explains Why The DC UniParty View POTUS Trump As a Risk To Their World Order[/URL]
[URL='https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/03/02/the-myth-of-global-markets-explains-why-the-dc-uniparty-view-potus-trump-as-a-risk-to-their-world-order/']The Myth of Global Markets Explains Why The DC UniParty View POTUS Trump As a Risk To Their World Order[/URL]
Good read about the underlying national security issue involved in making this decision.
The World Cries Wolf on U.S. Tariffs
The World Cries Wolf on U.S. Tariffs
Here is owebamatraitors list to destroy the US...
and he was half way there... 1,2,3,5,6,7,8
Hilliary would have finished us...
and he was half way there... 1,2,3,5,6,7,8
Hilliary would have finished us...
They don't want to fix it. They've been trying for the better part of the last century to bring America down to the level of the rest of the world.
Will the Trump tariffs substantially increase the cost of vehicles and stoke inflation?
Click ^^^
The current price of steel is around $800 per ton, and the price of aluminum is 97 cents per pound. The average car uses around one ton of steel and close to 400 pounds of aluminum. The average truck uses around one and one half tons of steel and just under 400 pounds of aluminum.
So if the price of the steel in a car went up the whole 25%, which it won't, and the price of aluminum went up the entire 10%, the cost would go up by about $240, or less than five tenths of a percent. The cost of a truck would go up around $340. According to Edmunds, the average car loan today is six and a half years. or 78 months, so the average payment would be up around $3 per month because of the tariffs, or 10 cents a day. Since people keep their cars for a long time, the tariffs will add little to overall inflation. Thank goodness Trump gave a big tax cut, which will more than cover that..
But the sky is falling, right fellas?
Click ^^^
The current price of steel is around $800 per ton, and the price of aluminum is 97 cents per pound. The average car uses around one ton of steel and close to 400 pounds of aluminum. The average truck uses around one and one half tons of steel and just under 400 pounds of aluminum.
So if the price of the steel in a car went up the whole 25%, which it won't, and the price of aluminum went up the entire 10%, the cost would go up by about $240, or less than five tenths of a percent. The cost of a truck would go up around $340. According to Edmunds, the average car loan today is six and a half years. or 78 months, so the average payment would be up around $3 per month because of the tariffs, or 10 cents a day. Since people keep their cars for a long time, the tariffs will add little to overall inflation. Thank goodness Trump gave a big tax cut, which will more than cover that..
But the sky is falling, right fellas?
Tariffs made up 95% of the US government's revenue until 1913, and then the federal reserve was created and started taxing us. Wonder why nobody talks about this?
We typically don't nationalize our major industires like some of the countries we trade with (China) so when we try to sell to them, they're protecting their own industries by artificially making their products cheaper than ours.
So, while we don't want the Government running our private businesses like some of them do, we can make their stuff more expensive to sell to us. Bottom line is they need our market. Trump knows this. I'm not for a trade war...I'm a free trader but right now it's not free or fair and Trump also knows this. He's trying to level the playing field. So if we tax their stuff at a higher rate to make their stuff as expensive to sell to us as ours is to sell to them then we're fighting fire with fire.
I personally favor taxing whatever country taxes us. If they're slappping tarrifs on our stuff sold to them to protect their industries...well we can play nasty too and we have more stuff to play nasty with!
Here is owebamatraitors list to destroy the US...
and he was half way there... 1,2,3,5,6,7,8
Hilliary would have finished us...
Two things that will always (hopefully) be in our favor. Our Freedom and our Constitution. One protects the other, and one then guarantees the other in equal reciprocity. As long as we remain Free to protect our Constitution our Constitution will protect our ability to remain Free. Lose one, and other quickly dissolves. The Left knows this, which is why they hate both and remain determined to eliminate each.
All of this for China to produce a "plan" to reduce our trade deficit by $1 bn?? L M A O
I don't see where fairness plays a part at all. Its bad policy. It punishes American consumers and American workers.
What if they reduce their tarriffs on our stuff we sell to them to maintain their market share selling stuff to us?
I think that's what Trump is angling for. That would actually benefit American workers and consumers.
What possible incentive do they have to comply? The tariffs make American companies noncompetitive globally and force them to shift even more production to foreign countries. Tariffs didn't work when Bush tried them and they didn't work when Obama tried them. Will hoping harder help this time around?
Their incentive is to keep selling here. If it costs them more to do that, they will be forced to adjust. We're taking over the oil markets. Opec can't dictate prices anymore because of American market supply and demand. Thus prices are lower.
Same here with other aspects of our trade deficit. When you want access to the biggest market in the world, you want to be able to compete on price.
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They only sell a fraction here and can make it up globally. You are harming American consumers and workers in the interests of "fairness". Didn't work under Bush and it didn't work under Obama. What has changed?
American oil companies are competing globally, not using tariffs, thus lowering oil prices.
Here's a blog from the socialist, commie CATO Institute.
https://www.cato.org/blog/reciprocal-trade-demands-defy-basic-economics-common-sense
https://www.cato.org/blog/reciprocal-trade-demands-defy-basic-economics-common-sense
From the clearly George Soros owned Wall Street Journal:
Investors generally view tariffs and other trade barriers as the equivalent of a tax, with increased import costs raising company costs. To the extent that companies are able to pass those higher costs on to consumers, tariffs are also inflationary, making the Federal Reserve more likely to raise interest rates more aggressively. Trade disputes also can sow uncertainty, making companies less willing to invest both in the U.S. and abroad.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-trade-deficit-trump-wants-to-fix-may-only-worsen-1520443711
Investors generally view tariffs and other trade barriers as the equivalent of a tax, with increased import costs raising company costs. To the extent that companies are able to pass those higher costs on to consumers, tariffs are also inflationary, making the Federal Reserve more likely to raise interest rates more aggressively. Trade disputes also can sow uncertainty, making companies less willing to invest both in the U.S. and abroad.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-trade-deficit-trump-wants-to-fix-may-only-worsen-1520443711
No worries. If they do impose a tariff, it won't last long. Bush's lasted about a year.
It's debatable if it will work. Generally you're correct they don't. But we're not dealing with a level playing field and like Trump said if we're behind 800 billion dollars who stands to lose the most?
The only thing that's changing now is we will tax their stuff here to protect our industries similar to how they already tax our stuff we sell to them. If they want to keep selling their stuff here cheap, they will have to move on their taxes to our stuff over there. If they don't, we will match them taxing their stuff here higher. I think it's worth the risk. We have more stuff.
They only have the chance to work if you're willing to play the long game with them, otherwise it's a short term threat to get better concessions at a negotiating table.
Debatable?
American consumers, followed closely by workers.
That's not a change. Bush and Obama tried to do the same thing and it failed. What makes this time different?
We have far more to lose.
And even in the long game, there are much better avenues to pursue, that won't injure American consumers.
I'm still baffled at people that see this as a negotiation ploy.
I see it as a negotiation ploy because of who's using it. Many people think Trump's crazy enough to enact them (cut the nose off to spite the face mentality), so they'll believe the threat of them as being real and therefore be more willing to make concessions.
He started his negotiation ploy back in 2015? And it's the worst ploy ever. They will just take the US to WTO and win.
They said he wouldn't pull out of the Paris accords...he did. They said he wouldn't stand up to Russia. He did. They said he wouldn't round up and deport illegal ailiens. He did. They said he wouldn't scare Kim Jong Un. He did. They said he wouldn't name Jerusalem capital of Israel. He did. They said he couldn't win the Presidency. He did.
Now they're saying he won't impose tarriffs?
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If we're in a trade deficit because we buy more stuff from overseas than we sell....and if we start making what we now buy overseas here while limiting what they sell to us what we used to buy from them how would we lose?
The whole idea is to force them to lower their tariffs on our stuff sold to them. If they do, I'd say that's a win for us. Unless they don't need our markets to sell their stuff? So who else would they tax like they tax our stuff? Who else makes as much stuff as we do or buys as much from them like we do?
Is this a real question? Prices will skyrocket, which means inflation skyrockets and interest rates skyrocket. In the case of steel and aluminum, reliant manufacturing will move out of the US.
Our economy is massive because of, among other things, free trade. There are systems setup for us to get relief from other countries tariffs, but trade deficits are not the boogey monster populists make them out to be.
2nd half of what you said is true but remember we've lost a lot of our manufacturing ability to make our own stuff because it was cheaper to just make it overseas. The tax cuts changed some of that, and if we revitalize our domestic manufacturing like we have energy I see the same dynamic. This won't solve all the problems but if our products become cheaper to make here or sell overseas then it's a win win for both our workers and consumers.