Another question the Left can't /won't answer

[atlkvb]

Obviously they all know Socialists and/or Socialism have/has a bad rep...otherwise they wouldn't be so reluctant to call themselves Socialists or identify with the major tenants of the ideology which they do in fact support. So why do you suppose they think it has such a bad rep, one they consistently shy away from enthusiastically identifying with?

The question to any of them is this:

What do you think it is about Socialism that has given it such a bad name? Is it a misunderstanding or a fairly earned poor reputation...Yes or No?

No one on the Left will likely ever answer that question, just like they will almost always refuse to admit they are (Socialists). Personally, I think they know why, as well as what the answer to the question is, but just like they can't admit that it (Socialism) always fails wherever it's been tried, they can't admit it's a fairly earned poor reputation.

See how many of them tackle this one?

(their excuse for not answering these questions by the way will be because I'm either 1) too stupid 2) too biased 3) only set up traps for them 4) too unfair 5) will twist their answers to fit what I want them to be 6)are ignoring me and don't even read my idiotic posts or any other reason they can think of to avoid standing up and answering this question truthfully.)

Just a heads up for the rest of the board when you don't see anyone on the Left bothering to answer.

 

[D. Denzil Finney]

Obviosuly they all know Socialists and/or Socialism have/has a bad rep...otherwise they wouldn't be so reluctant to call themselves Socialists or identify with the major tenants of the ideology which they do in fact support. So why do you suppose they think it has such a bad rep, one they consistently shy away from enthusiastically identifying with?

The question to any of them is this:

What do you think it is about Socialism that has given it such a bad name? Is it a misunderstanding or a fairly earned poor reputation...Yes or No?

No one on the Left will likely ever answer that question, just like they will almost always refuse to admit they are (Socialists). Personally, I think they know why, as well as what the answer to the question is, but just like they can't admit that it (Socialism) always fails wherever it's been tried, they can't admit it's a fairly earned poor reputation.

See how many of them tackle this one?

(their excuse for not answering these questions by the way will be because I'm either 1) too stupid 2) too biased 3) only set up traps for them 4) too unfair 5) will twist their answers to fit what I want them to be 6)are ignoring me and don't even read my idiotic posts or any other reason they can think of to avoid standing up and answering this question truthfully.)

Just a heads up for the rest of the board when you don't see anyone on the Left bothering to answer.

You recently spoke to legimitate discussion without the left vs right attitude - - just good effective conversation to arrive at mutual understanding,cooperation between all parties concerned. And then . . . you begin a new rant stirring the pot of left vs right. Real good man, just real good!

 

[atlkvb]

You recently spoke to legimitate discussion without the left vs right attitude - - just good effective conversation to arrive at mutual understanding,cooperation between all parties concerned. And then . . . you begin a new rant stirring the pot of left vs right. Real good man, just real good!

The subject matter in the video has nothing to do with this ongoing meme I've been running to smoke out these Leftists on this forum who refuse to admit what they are. Part of that video was to open up honest discussion and stop lying and hiding behind things like "racism" or "crazy right Wing nut jobs" who simply have Faith and wish to practice it.

I agree with you we need to have open honest discussions. But how do you begin to have those conversations when one side can't even admit to what it is they believe? I have no problem trying to find common ground with Leftists (if that's possible) but you can't do that until they admit what they are, and why they believe what they do? I don't hide behind my Conservatism or my Faith. I won't give up my beliefs just to get along with someone who is opposed to them. We also live in a free country, and we participate in the "arena of ideas" where if we can reach consensus on what is actually right and correct...we can indeed reach some level of understanding.

But that doesn't happen unless we first start being honest with each other about what we think, say, or believe. That was the point of that video and I still stand behind my sentiments inituially expressed over it.

 

[D. Denzil Finney]

The subject matter in the video has nothing to do with this ongoing meme I've been running to smoke out these Leftists on this forum who refuse to admit what they are. Part of that video was to open up honest discussion and stop lying and hiding behind things like "racism" or "crazy right Wing nut jobs" who simply have Faith and wish to practice it.

I agree with you we need to have open honest discussions. But how do you begin to have those conversations when one side can't even admit to what it is they believe? I have no problem trying to find common ground with Leftists (if that's possible) but you can't do that until they admit what they are, and why they believe what they do? I don't hide behind my Conservatism or my Faith. I won't give up my beliefs just to get along with someone who is opposed to them. We also live in a free country, and we participate in the "arena of ideas" where if we can reach consensus on what is actually right and correct...we can indeed reach some level of understanding.

But that doesn't happen unless we first start being honest with each other about what we think, say, or believe. That was the point of that video and I still stand behind my sentiments inituially expressed over it.

All I am saying is if you are going to a dance contest, it takes to willing partners to take home the big prize. As we, John Q Public, are caught in the jaws of a vice that gets tighter and tighter as the battle rages between the two factions. Somehow, some way, we have to come together before this Great Union falls apart. I believe we have already started down that road and continue to gather steam. I think Bennie Franklin said it best.
"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately"

 

[atlkvb]

All I am saying is if you are going to a dance contest, it takes to willing partners to take home the big prize. As we, John Q Public, are caught in the jaws of a vice that gets tighter and tighter as the battle rages between the two factions. Somehow, some way, we have to come together before this Great Union falls apart. I believe we have already started down that road and continue to gather steam. I think Bennie Franklin said it best.
"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately"

I agree with you Finney...I truly do. We can never come together though unless we reach a consensus. The consensus in my opinion has to be based on three solid fundamental Truths.

1) We are ALL Americans. We have equal rights in this country, and equal duty to it to protect them

2) With Freedom and Rights come personal responsibility. That means you MUST be willing to take care of your end of the bargain before you can expect anything else from the country.

3) There is right and wrong...Good and Evil....correct and incorrect. We can't exist in a Nation of Laws where that is even in dispute.

So understanding our common heritage as Americans and respecting that, appreciating our responsibilities under the Freedoms we share...which includes tolerance of our differences...and acknowledging there is right and wrong in a Nation of Laws then respecting that by agreeing what is right and what is wrong is how we come together.

If we can't find this consensus...I agree with you we will not make it. Sides are too hardened and no one wants to compromise on their hardened positions because no one wants to admit who is wrong or who is right?


No consensus? No coming together.

 

[atlkvb]

 

[Boomboom521]

All I am saying is if you are going to a dance contest, it takes to willing partners to take home the big prize. As we, John Q Public, are caught in the jaws of a vice that gets tighter and tighter as the battle rages between the two factions. Somehow, some way, we have to come together before this Great Union falls apart. I believe we have already started down that road and continue to gather steam. I think Bennie Franklin said it best.
"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately"

I got on this db to try to better understand why a man like Trump was elected. I hoped in a way to find a dislike of Washington corruption that could bring people together. I however found a very entrenched hatred of ideological opposition and a staunch desire to team loyalty. From tax reform, to sexual harassment, to foreign policy, to the old go to’s like abortion or gun rights, it’s very heavily one side versus the other.

There are a few on each side that have a more centralized thinking. Coop, for one, seems to be very central, and very rarely makes a partisan decision. But most others, even the sensible, you see at one time or another lining up to rumble shoulder to shoulder with there clan. Not out of principle, but some out of loyalty and some out of sheer desire to beat on the other side.

Issues can’t even really be discussed without someone central being accused of lying, or a comparison of past positions and party affiliations being made. (If you are a democrat against confederate statues - then it’s pointed out that your party put them up. If you are a Republican against racism - then its pointed out that the KKK endorsed your candidate). And the issue gets lost amongst the rage and blame.

You are absolutely right, UNION is a very important word for a Democratic Republic. There’s room for policy to be attempted and changed and discussed without foaming at the mouth as you scream for civil war. There’s one member that constantly advocates for a new civil war, as if it’s the only solution.

Many have lost the talent, the heart, the love, the awareness, the patience, and the acceptance that our founders possessed. Many have truly lost what it means to be American.

But we can bring it back.

 

[wvu2007]

It means that a candidate like Bernie Sanders is extremely dangerous for America. As much as I disliked Hillary Clinton she would have been a much better option for our country than crazy Bernie. The left has to move away from socialism.

 

[atlkvb]

Coop, for one, seems to be very central, and very rarely makes a partisan decision

You can't be serious about Coop boom. As partisan as you are, you're more open than he is! I think on the Left on this forum at least @mule_eer is the most reasonable and open minded. He is respectful, makes interesting comments, is often correct, and not afraid to admit when his side is wrong. He's been very consistent especially on the sexual harassment stuff. Coop is a liar.

On the right @DvlDog4WVU might be the closest to non partisan on this forum. Everyone else has picked sides is duking it out from their respective corners.

 

[wvu2007]

You can't be serious about Coop boom. As partisan as you are, you're more open than he is! I think on the Left on this forum at least @mule_eer is the most reasonable and open minded. He is respectful, makes interesting comments, is often correct, and not afraid to admit when his side is wrong. He's been very consistent especially on the sexual harassment stuff. Coop is a liar.

On the right @DvlDog4WVU might be the closest to non partisan on this forum. Everyone else has picked sides is duking it out from their respective corners.

When I first started on this board I tried to be as neutral as possible. It didn't take long to learn that many on the left here couldn't have a conversation so on here I became just like them. It drives them nuts lol.

 

[atlkvb]

When I first started on this board I tried to be as neutral as possible. It didn't take long to learn that many on the left here couldn't have a conversation so on here I became just like them. It drives them nuts lol.

I think this is the most important point in trying to determine how we come together. I don't think that happens when one side in a debate can't even admit what they truly believe. The video was great in understanding how important honesty is in understanding our differences. Without it, you can never get to who is actually correct, and who or what is wrong?

Excellent, excellent point @wvu2007 !

 

[atlkvb]

When I first started on this board I tried to be as neutral as possible. It didn't take long to learn that many on the left here couldn't have a conversation so on here I became just like them. It drives them nuts lol.

I don't know if you saw it @wvu2007 , but I posted a long list of positions that most of us on the Right would easily be opposed to, wondering if folks on the Left (especially @MountaineerWV ) disagreed with Socialists on any of them? It was probably close to 2 dozen positions that certainly separate us on the Right from the Left, but what about Liberals on the Left from Socialists...the furthest Left as far as I know you can travel if you're on that side of the fence?

No one on the Left stepped up to say where they disagreed with the Socialists!

Amazing.

 

[wvu2007]

I don't know if you saw it @wvu2007 , but I posted a long list of positions that most of us on the Right would easily be opposed to, wondering if folks on the Left (especially @MountaineerWV ) disagreed with Socialists on any of them? It was probably close to 2 dozen positions that certainly separate us on the Right from the Left, but what about Liberals on the Left from Socialists...the furthest Left as far as I know you can travel if you're on that side of the fence?

No one on the Left stepped up to say where they disagreed with the Socialists!

Amazing.

Unfortunately many of those views have become the new normal for many on the left. For all of mankind it has been horrific for the world and will only do damage to the US.

 

[atlkvb]

Unfortunately many of those views have become the new normal for many on the left. For all of mankind it has been horrific for the world and will only do damage to the US.

We're talking about coming together...and reaching understanding. How do you make Leftists understand that Socialism doesn't work? Not only do they deny that historical Truth, they deny that's what they still believe in!

 

[atlkvb]

Unfortunately many of those views have become the new normal for many on the left. For all of mankind it has been horrific for the world and will only do damage to the US.

Even Socialists admit it doesn't work! In European countries that have tried running it, they're trying to get away from it as fast as possible and replacing it with market based economies. China realized it doesn't work, and moved to a mixed model. Russia jettisoned it back during the late 80's. Ditto the Iron curtain nations. It doesn't work. Only the American Left still clings to it, arrogantly believing they're the ones who can run it the right way.[pfftt][eyeroll]:thumbsdown::flush:[sick]:chairshot_O