What does Obamacare mean to you, strategy question

[DvlDog4WVU]

in my opinion, the left and specifically Obama have created a sacred cow they have no control over saving. My question, what kind of concessions would you be ok taking in order to save Obamacare? In my opinion, the Dems have painted themselves into a corner. Schumer has already stated he's unwilling to negotiate on Repeal and Replacing Obamacare.

Ok, fine, I now know what my best bargaining chip is.

 

[MountaineerWV]

in my opinion, the left and specifically Obama have created a sacred cow they have no control over saving. My question, what kind of concessions would you be ok taking in order to save Obamacare? In my opinion, the Dems have painted themselves into a corner. Schumer has already stated he's unwilling to negotiate on Repeal and Replacing Obamacare.

Ok, fine, I now know what my best bargaining chip is.

I think a system needs to stay in place to allow those who WANT and NEED health insurance (affordable) to get it. Now, if an individual does NOT want it, they shouldn't be forced to have it. So, there's my take.

 

[Airport]

in my opinion, the left and specifically Obama have created a sacred cow they have no control over saving. My question, what kind of concessions would you be ok taking in order to save Obamacare? In my opinion, the Dems have painted themselves into a corner. Schumer has already stated he's unwilling to negotiate on Repeal and Replacing Obamacare.

Ok, fine, I now know what my best bargaining chip is.

Screw the dems. We won they lost. It's the biggest job killer ever. Tell the states that the federal govt is only going to subsidize the Medicaid increases for 18 months. Tell the states to make their own adjustments. Let people buy it with no subsidies. All the increases have been on the Medicaid side anyway. As many people lost medical insurance as new people were put on the roles.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Screw the dems. We won they lost. It's the biggest job killer ever. Tell the states that the federal govt is only going to subsidize the Medicaid increases for 18 months. Tell the states to make their own adjustments. Let people buy it with no subsidies. All the increases have been on the Medicaid side anyway. As many people lost medical insurance as new people were put on the roles.

You do realize the Dems have put themselves in precisely the situation to be screwed as you put it. But it can be done with class and still be effective and putting the country first.

It's quite simple really, make some minor tweaks to the ACA that both sides agree to but only as a "compromise" in public so long as the Dems have to acquiesce on everything else. Hold it hostage through the first 100 days that if they even flinch it comes up as the next topic of discussion. This will give the Dems a token victory, put another fix to the healthcare issue, and push the GOP agenda forward as they see fit while also calming the public down and putting a better public image on the GOP.

Dodd Frank is the same. These moronic Dems going on TV and publicly stating their sacred cows just tells me what I'm going to use to break my agenda off in their ***.

 

[WVPATX]

I think Trump will likely repeal and replace. A few things will likely be included in the replacement that are currently in Obamacare (e.g. pre-existing conditions and allowing children to stay on Parent's policies until they reach the age of 26). I think the mandate goes away. I think insurance companies will be allowed to compete across state lines. I also think health savings accounts will be part of the package. Competition has to be increased to bring these premium and deductibles down.

Trump promised to repeal Obamacare and I don't think the GOP has any choice other than repeal. Obamacare was a huge campaign issue and very unpopular, but a few of its popular features will be part of the new law.

 

[MountaineerWV]

Screw the dems. We won they lost. It's the biggest job killer ever. Tell the states that the federal govt is only going to subsidize the Medicaid increases for 18 months. Tell the states to make their own adjustments. Let people buy it with no subsidies. All the increases have been on the Medicaid side anyway. As many people lost medical insurance as new people were put on the roles.

Following the "Great Uniter" I see.......I'm glad you don't have a loved one who is taking advantage of the ACA that has diabetes and cannot afford insurance and their employer does not offer it......and I'm glad you don't have to look at them in the eye after you strip them from their opportunity to live......

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Following the "Great Uniter" I see.......I'm glad you don't have a loved one who is taking advantage of the ACA that has diabetes and cannot afford insurance and their employer does not offer it......and I'm glad you don't have to look at them in the eye after you strip them from their opportunity to live......

I'll volunteer to do it. I'd bet Coop would as well. Old people suck!

#deathpanels

 

[MountaineerWV]

I'll volunteer to do it. I'd bet Coop would as well. Old people suck!

#deathpanels

Another fine example from someone who says they served our nation.....

....and diabetes doesn't effect just old people. Some people are born without a functional pancreas......

 

[WVPATX]

Following the "Great Uniter" I see.......I'm glad you don't have a loved one who is taking advantage of the ACA that has diabetes and cannot afford insurance and their employer does not offer it......and I'm glad you don't have to look at them in the eye after you strip them from their opportunity to live......

30 million Americans remain uninsured today. we did not have to take over 1/6 of the US economy to provide insurance for the number taking advantage of Obamacare. There would've been far better and cheaper ways to accomplish that.

 

[TarHeelEer]

their opportunity to live......

At what price? I know I would want to be a useless eater (The Man in the High Castle reference). But also, at what cost do we make people live long lives?

 

[MountaineerWV]

At what price? I know I would want to be a useless eater (The Man in the High Castle reference). But also, at what cost do we make people live long lives?

Are you serious? Diabetes is not terminal.......wow.

 

[TarHeelEer]

Are you serious? Diabetes is not terminal.......wow.

I didn't mention diabetes. Wow.

 

[va87eer]

Hopefully the solution is driven by what's best for the citizens and isn't driven by partisan politics. We need increased competition to drive down costs or at least the growth of costs. Hopefully there will be more affordable options outside of employer plans.

It will be politically difficult to pull back on pre-existing conditions and the age 26 issue. The "Cadillac Tax" element will be one of the first things to go if it is disassembled piecemeal.

To this point, the growth in healthcare costs in recent years has been much less than the historical norm but without change the cost growth is going to head upward again.

Presidents-------------Increase during term
Kennedy/Johnson---115%
Nixon/Ford------------161%
Carter------------------ 67%------(4 years)
Reagan---------------126%
Bush1------------------47%-----(4 years)
Clinton-----------------60%
Bush2------------------75%
Obama-----------------41%

 

[WVPATX]

US government report on healthcare costs:

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/healthcare_spending


The increase in health care spending moderated in the 1980s, but still breached 4 percent of GDP in 1990 and then increased rapidly in the early 1990s, reaching 5 percent of GDP in 1993 and peaking at 5.3 percent GDP in 1995. Health care spending decreased slightly in the late 1990s, down to 5 percent of GDP in 2000. Rapid growth in health care spending resumed in the 2000s, reaching 6 percent of GDP in 2005 and 7 percent of GDP in 2009. In 2015 health care spending is estimated to be 7.54 percent GDP, reaching almost 7.9 percent of GDP by 2020.

 

[va87eer]

US government report on healthcare costs:

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/healthcare_spending


The increase in health care spending moderated in the 1980s, but still breached 4 percent of GDP in 1990 and then increased rapidly in the early 1990s, reaching 5 percent of GDP in 1993 and peaking at 5.3 percent GDP in 1995. Health care spending decreased slightly in the late 1990s, down to 5 percent of GDP in 2000. Rapid growth in health care spending resumed in the 2000s, reaching 6 percent of GDP in 2005 and 7 percent of GDP in 2009. In 2015 health care spending is estimated to be 7.54 percent GDP, reaching almost 7.9 percent of GDP by 2020.[/QUOT

US government report on healthcare costs:

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/healthcare_spending


The increase in health care spending moderated in the 1980s, but still breached 4 percent of GDP in 1990 and then increased rapidly in the early 1990s, reaching 5 percent of GDP in 1993 and peaking at 5.3 percent GDP in 1995. Health care spending decreased slightly in the late 1990s, down to 5 percent of GDP in 2000. Rapid growth in health care spending resumed in the 2000s, reaching 6 percent of GDP in 2005 and 7 percent of GDP in 2009. In 2015 health care spending is estimated to be 7.54 percent GDP, reaching almost 7.9 percent of GDP by 2020.[/QUOTE

The numbers I quoted are raw spending numbers (not a percent of GDP).

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Another fine example from someone who says they served our nation.....

....and diabetes doesn't effect just old people. Some people are born without a functional pancreas......

Don't get mad at me because your too useless of a man to willingly take on an adult's responsibility and deal with realities of life. Atta boy pissy pants, don't stop disappointing. Still bringing my service into it as well, just making yourself look like an ***. I've held the hand and watched the life go out of the eyes of several friends and family members. I'm usually the one who bears the burden as the patriarch of our family.

Is this something new or did I miss a memo? When did the left completely lose their ability to read sarcasm or process humor? They still haven't been able to grasp that Trump was being funny in the debate when he asked Russia to find the 30k emails. I've been in complete amazement as they've repeatedly gone back to that as him colluding with the Russians.

 

[va87eer]

https://www.cms.gov/research-statis...enddata/nationalhealthaccountshistorical.html

My data is from this government site. Table 2 shows total healthcare spending by year.

I believe the numbers you are quoting may be government spending rather than total.

 

[WVPATX]

https://www.cms.gov/research-statis...enddata/nationalhealthaccountshistorical.html

My data is from this government site. Table 2 shows total healthcare spending by year.

I believe the numbers you are quoting may be government spending rather than total.

The report I provided is government spending, which under Obamacare has gone up pretty significantly. Your report may be a bit misleading due to the fact that insurance premiums and deductibles have soared. People may be spending less money on healthcare because they simply cannot afford it.

For this upcoming year, to ensure my 34 year old wife and her daughter who is 13, costs roughly 500 bucks per month with a $10,000 deductible. It is simply stunning how expensive it is. So she only goes to the doctor when it is absolutely necessary.

We use Golden Rule which is a subsidiary of United healthcare.

 

[MountaineerWV]

Don't get mad at me because your too useless of a man to willingly take on an adult's responsibility and deal with realities of life. Atta boy pissy pants, don't stop disappointing. Still bringing my service into it as well, just making yourself look like an ***. I've held the hand and watched the life go out of the eyes of several friends and family members. I'm usually the one who bears the burden as the patriarch of our family.

Is this something new or did I miss a memo? When did the left completely lose their ability to read sarcasm or process humor? They still haven't been able to grasp that Trump was being funny in the debate when he asked Russia to find the 30k emails. I've been in complete amazement as they've repeatedly gone back to that as him colluding with the Russians.

It's the Internet, sarcasm is hard to pick up on....especially someone who types about things like "back to Africa?" and then backs it up after being called out for it by saying "I was making a point" with a long typed out response after the fact.....yeah......right.....

I could easily resort to name-calling and all that, but that's not going to happen. After this, I'm done with your conversations. If you say you served, I applaud and salute you. But, needless to say, I don't have to like you nor respect you. You have said evil things on here. That isn't the actions of someone I would think take an oath to protect Americans. But, that's just me. I thought integrity was part of serving......

I am not talking about my family. I provide for my family. That includes health insurance. I'm talking about those that may not have the same opportunity to do so. [WVU]

 

[Airport]

Following the "Great Uniter" I see.......I'm glad you don't have a loved one who is taking advantage of the ACA that has diabetes and cannot afford insurance and their employer does not offer it......and I'm glad you don't have to look at them in the eye after you strip them from their opportunity to live......

Nobody is entitled to free healthcare. If you factor in how many people lost their jobs and ins, it's a net loss. I'm for replacing it with nothing!!!!!!! Start over with something that makes sense. No mandates at all.

 

[Airport]

Another fine example from someone who says they served our nation.....

....and diabetes doesn't effect just old people. Some people are born without a functional pancreas......

Or a functioning brain.

 

[Airport]

30 million Americans remain uninsured today. we did not have to take over 1/6 of the US economy to provide insurance for the number taking advantage of Obamacare. There would've been far better and cheaper ways to accomplish that.

The increase in people receiving healthcare are directly related to increase in medicaid roles. That being a promise fromt eh feds to pick up part of the tab for the next three years without a guarentee after that. People have lost jobs and benefits, it's a net loss for our country.

 

[Airport]

Hopefully the solution is driven by what's best for the citizens and isn't driven by partisan politics. We need increased competition to drive down costs or at least the growth of costs. Hopefully there will be more affordable options outside of employer plans.

It will be politically difficult to pull back on pre-existing conditions and the age 26 issue. The "Cadillac Tax" element will be one of the first things to go if it is disassembled piecemeal.

To this point, the growth in healthcare costs in recent years has been much less than the historical norm but without change the cost growth is going to head upward again.

Presidents-------------Increase during term
Kennedy/Johnson---115%
Nixon/Ford------------161%
Carter------------------ 67%------(4 years)
Reagan---------------126%
Bush1------------------47%-----(4 years)
Clinton-----------------60%
Bush2------------------75%
Obama-----------------41%

When deductibles go sky high, what has happened in the last 12 years, then people won't use it. Maybe you should graph how much is spent on helathcare, vs deductible vs life expectancy.

 

[WVPATX]

The increase in people receiving healthcare are directly related to increase in medicaid roles. That being a promise fromt eh feds to pick up part of the tab for the next three years without a guarentee after that. People have lost jobs and benefits, it's a net loss for our country.

I would agree with that. A large percentage of those who have signed up for Obamacare are actually using Medicaid. It certainly makes sense to get Obamacare if you were being subsidized by others.

My 27-year-old daughter never signed up for Obamacare and was willing to pay the tax instead. The reason is that she simply could not afford the monthly costs of that insurance. and the reality is that as long as she did not overpay her taxes, the government could never collect.

 

[Airport]

You do realize the Dems have put themselves in precisely the situation to be screwed as you put it. But it can be done with class and still be effective and putting the country first.

It's quite simple really, make some minor tweaks to the ACA that both sides agree to but only as a "compromise" in public so long as the Dems have to acquiesce on everything else. Hold it hostage through the first 100 days that if they even flinch it comes up as the next topic of discussion. This will give the Dems a token victory, put another fix to the healthcare issue, and push the GOP agenda forward as they see fit while also calming the public down and putting a better public image on the GOP.

Dodd Frank is the same. These moronic Dems going on TV and publicly stating their sacred cows just tells me what I'm going to use to break my agenda off in their ***.

Like harry fvcking Reid has shown class? Like Pelosi? We can compromise a long as it does away with all mandates, medicaid increases and has tort reform and insurance competition.

 

[Airport]

I would agree with that. A large percentage of those who have signed up for Obamacare are actually using Medicaid. It certainly makes sense to get Obamacare if you were being subsidized by others.

My 27-year-old daughter never signed up for Obamacare and was willing to pay the tax instead. The reason is that she simply could not afford the monthly costs of that insurance. and the reality is that as long as she did not overpay her taxes, the government could never collect.

the ACA screwed up our business community worse than anything ever before.

 

[WVPATX]

Like harry fvcking Reid has shown class? Like Pelosi? We can compromise a long as it does away with all mandates, medicaid increases and has tort reform and insurance competition.

Tort reform could have a pretty significant impact on health care costs. malpractice insurance rates are unreal.

 

[Airport]

I think a system needs to stay in place to allow those who WANT and NEED health insurance (affordable) to get it. Now, if an individual does NOT want it, they shouldn't be forced to have it. So, there's my take.

Nope, not as it's written.

 

[WVPATX]

Nope, not as it's written.

I agree, Obamacare has got to go.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Like harry fvcking Reid has shown class? Like Pelosi? We can compromise a long as it does away with all mandates, medicaid increases and has tort reform and insurance competition.

It's been a tough 8 years under the Harry Reid's and batshit crazy Pelosi's of the world but part of the issue that we on the right have raised is we can do it better. Part of that is behaving better than they did. Being spiteful for the sake of spite doesn't help the country.

I'm fine with tanking the ACA, however, I'd rather use it to manipulate the kind of lasting changes we need to have happen that the Dems are going to try and fight.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

It's the Internet, sarcasm is hard to pick up on....especially someone who types about things like "back to Africa?" and then backs it up after being called out for it by saying "I was making a point" with a long typed out response after the fact.....yeah......right.....

Pissy pants is upset because he's a simpleton.

 

[dave]

It's the Internet, sarcasm is hard to pick up on....especially someone who types about things like "back to Africa?" and then backs it up after being called out for it by saying "I was making a point" with a long typed out response after the fact.....yeah......right.....

I could easily resort to name-calling and all that, but that's not going to happen. After this, I'm done with your conversations. If you say you served, I applaud and salute you. But, needless to say, I don't have to like you nor respect you. You have said evil things on here. That isn't the actions of someone I would think take an oath to protect Americans. But, that's just me. I thought integrity was part of serving......

I am not talking about my family. I provide for my family. That includes health insurance. I'm talking about those that may not have the same opportunity to do so. [WVU]

What a pathetic piece of **** *****.

 

[Airport]

It's been a tough 8 years under the Harry Reid's and batshit crazy Pelosi's of the world but part of the issue that we on the right have raised is we can do it better. Part of that is behaving better than they did. Being spiteful for the sake of spite doesn't help the country.

I'm fine with tanking the ACA, however, I'd rather use it to manipulate the kind of lasting changes we need to have happen that the Dems are going to try and fight.

You mean like setting up machine gum nests on the border with shoot to kill orders for anybody crossing ?

 

[va87eer]

The report I provided is government spending, which under Obamacare has gone up pretty significantly. Your report may be a bit misleading due to the fact that insurance premiums and deductibles have soared. People may be spending less money on healthcare because they simply cannot afford it.

For this upcoming year, to ensure my 34 year old wife and her daughter who is 13, costs roughly 500 bucks per month with a $10,000 deductible. It is simply stunning how expensive it is. So she only goes to the doctor when it is absolutely necessary.

We use Golden Rule which is a subsidiary of United healthcare.

The government part has gone up with Obamacare for sure while the growth in the country's total expenditure has dropped significantly. FYI -
Insurance premiums are considered as a cost in computing the cost of national healthcare so they are included in the figures that I've quoted and are a significant part of those figures.

The increase in 2017 total healthcare costs is expected to be higher than recent increases due to significant insurance premium increases. Impact is projected to increase the rate of growth from about 5% to somewhere in 6-7% range.

I'm fortunate to work for a European company that has extremely good insurance. It's good enough to be in the "Cadillac Tax" category, which is one of the dumbest government ideas ever.

In my case our plan for 51 year old wife and I (no kids) p
--Premium=200 bi weekly = $5200/year
--Deductible=800 max per family per year
--Out of pocket max = 2,000 per family per year
--Annual physical covered (no co-pay)
--Small co-pays for doctor visits ($20 primary, $30 non-primary)

Being a European company we have a sliding premium so that those with lower incomes pay less. For example, bi weekly premium for people grossing under 90k is ~20% less than mine. Lowest premium is about 40% less.

We also have an alternative very high deductible option where the premium is much lower.

Our company insurance is through Blue Cross and we have had minimal premium increases over the last 5 years.

 

[va87eer]

Tort reform could have a pretty significant impact on health care costs. malpractice insurance rates are unreal.

This should get through with a Republican Congress. I don't have statistics to back it up at the moment but there have been many articles about West Virginia being one of the states hit hardest with high malpractice suits due to tendency for large judgments.

 

[WVPATX]

The government part has gone up with Obamacare for sure while the growth in the country's total expenditure has dropped significantly. FYI -
Insurance premiums are considered as a cost in computing the cost of national healthcare so they are included in the figures that I've quoted and are a significant part of those figures.

The increase in 2017 total healthcare costs is expected to be higher than recent increases due to significant insurance premium increases. Impact is projected to increase the rate of growth from about 5% to somewhere in 6-7% range.

I'm fortunate to work for a European company that has extremely good insurance. It's good enough to be in the "Cadillac Tax" category, which is one of the dumbest government ideas ever.

In my case our plan for 51 year old wife and I (no kids) p
--Premium=200 bi weekly = $5200/year
--Deductible=800 max per family per year
--Out of pocket max = 2,000 per family per year
--Annual physical covered (no co-pay)
--Small co-pays for doctor visits ($20 primary, $30 non-primary)

Being a European company we have a sliding premium so that those with lower incomes pay less. For example, bi weekly premium for people grossing under 90k is ~20% less than mine. Lowest premium is about 40% less.

We also have an alternative very high deductible option where the premium is much lower.

Our company insurance is through Blue Cross and we have had minimal premium increases over the last 5 years.

I understand insurance premiums are included but the part that is missing are the massive increase in deductibles. The way insurance companies have tried to keep premiums down is to raise deductibles. I think people are seeking less medical care because the cost of going to see a doctor or emergency room would cost them a lot of money out of pocket. So they are very frugal about their medical care.

Tort reform should also help to lower the cost of doing business. This should help profitability and hopefully lead to job growth. My brother and I owned a small manufacturing company making underground mining equipment. Our insurance costs were outrageous and some of the verdicts delivered were simply irresponsible. But when someone is injured, juries often feel sorry and try and take it out on the company and the big bad insurance company.

 

[va87eer]

I understand insurance premiums are included but the part that is missing are the massive increase in deductibles. The way insurance companies have tried to keep premiums down is to raise deductibles. I think people are seeking less medical care because the cost of going to see a doctor or emergency room would cost them a lot of money out of pocket. So they are very frugal about their medical care.

Tort reform should also help to lower the cost of doing business. This should help profitability and hopefully lead to job growth. My brother and I owned a small manufacturing company making underground mining equipment. Our insurance costs were outrageous and some of the verdicts delivered were simply irresponsible. But when someone is injured, juries often feel sorry and try and take it out on the company and the big bad insurance company.

The increase in premiums has been slower than historical norms under ACA to this point but I don't think that's sustainable as premiums will start to climb significantly next year.

Deductibles have skyrocketed over the last 12 years, as also pointed out by Airport. This is a "business decision" made by insurance companies, employers, and sometimes employees. Insurance companies and employers have started raising deductibles as a way to contain premium increases and also as a behavioral incentive for employees not to abuse the system. Of course in curbing abuse via high deductible, they may also be preventing valid use of the system.

Employees are also more often choosing very high deductible plans in favor of higher premiums when they have an option.

It's likely that higher deductibles are here to stay. Increased competition would be helpful in containing the growth rate but there's not any reason to expect a reversal in this trend.

 

[atlkvb]

The overriding goal of repeal should be to put Patients and Health care providers in charge of making the decisions between costs of care and delivery of health care services.

Remove all restrictions to a free market, driven by consumers who should be allowed to decide for themselves which levels of health care they desire, through which providers who are offering the best most affordable products and services of their (consumer's) choice...at the lowest possible costs with the highest possible quality.

Trust the market (health care providers & consumers) to find common ground to lower overall costs and get 3rd party cost shifters (Gov't) or Insurance companies out of making those critical decisions for health care consumers.

 

[va87eer]

Real competition has been lacking for decades and that is the core problem. I'm not sure how we reduce the influence of the insurance companies at this point -- I'm sure the Blue Lot will figure it out though.

 

[atlkvb]

Real competition has been lacking for decades and that is the core problem. I'm not sure how we reduce the influence of the insurance companies at this point -- I'm sure the Blue Lot will figure it out though.

For one they could remove the restrictions on Health Insurance companies selling across State lines....The Left runs school systems the same way, refusing to allow full Parental choice, or refusing to allow Parents to shop around for the best schools instead limiting their choices to lousy local Public schools.

Health care Patients should be given the same freedom to shop across State lines for the best possible policies and/or care options.There might be some small Insurance company in Omaha that could provide low cost essential services to financially strapped Families across the country, yet their charter currently only allows them to sell those services to their relatively small population base in Omaha.

Low cost supplemental Life Insurance policies by comparison are available across State lines, and as a result there are a wide variety of plans and options available to consumers at very low costs with affordable premiums tailored to the exact amounts of coverages consumers desire.

Health care Insurance companies should be given that same sort of flexibility to offer options at lower costs to their customers.