Tulsa
- Thread starter WVU82_rivals
- Start date
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/21/opinions/president-responsible-for-protection-joseph/
comments section:
The question remains - how and why is this issue race related?
According to the Guardian, there have been 790 people year-to-date in the US who have died at the hands (or in the custody) of police. Of those 790, 194 are black, 130 Hispanic, 15 Asian, 13 Native American, and 387 white. With <1/4 of the victims black, how is this a race problem?
Let's ask the media. Racial tension sells, and they love selling it.
In the days since Mr. Crutcher's death, which is now front page news nationwide, at least 6 whites have been kiIIed by cops. Can you name a single one? Of course not - doesn't sell.
The media stokes racial tension by reporting police shootings only when blacks are shot, and then wring their hands when riots break out.
comments section:
The question remains - how and why is this issue race related?
According to the Guardian, there have been 790 people year-to-date in the US who have died at the hands (or in the custody) of police. Of those 790, 194 are black, 130 Hispanic, 15 Asian, 13 Native American, and 387 white. With <1/4 of the victims black, how is this a race problem?
Let's ask the media. Racial tension sells, and they love selling it.
In the days since Mr. Crutcher's death, which is now front page news nationwide, at least 6 whites have been kiIIed by cops. Can you name a single one? Of course not - doesn't sell.
The media stokes racial tension by reporting police shootings only when blacks are shot, and then wring their hands when riots break out.
From a Philip Holloway op-ed on this same page:
Yet, if anything, the limited information we have now presents more questions than it answers.
Investigators therefore need to know, among other things:
-- Why was Crutcher walking away from police?
-- What did the officer say was the reason she fired?
-- Why was his SUV parked mostly in the lane of oncoming traffic?
-- Dispatch relayed that a 911 caller said a man was warning the SUV was going to blow up. Why?
-- What commands, if any, was Crutcher given, and why?
Was he complying with commands?
-- What did other officers on scene have to say?
-- What training, if any, did the officer have in use of force and particularly "judgmental shooting?"
-- Was Mr. Crutcher actually high on PCP as the officer says she feared? It's a fair question since PCP was found in his SUV, and only a thorough autopsy can determine what -- if anything -- was in his system.
Until all or most of these are answered, it's premature to speculate about the officer or about Mr. Crutcher - not that that will stop anyone.
Hillary has already told us the shooting was caused by "systemic racism" despite having no information to back that up.
Yet, if anything, the limited information we have now presents more questions than it answers.
Investigators therefore need to know, among other things:
-- Why was Crutcher walking away from police?
-- What did the officer say was the reason she fired?
-- Why was his SUV parked mostly in the lane of oncoming traffic?
-- Dispatch relayed that a 911 caller said a man was warning the SUV was going to blow up. Why?
-- What commands, if any, was Crutcher given, and why?
Was he complying with commands?
-- What did other officers on scene have to say?
-- What training, if any, did the officer have in use of force and particularly "judgmental shooting?"
-- Was Mr. Crutcher actually high on PCP as the officer says she feared? It's a fair question since PCP was found in his SUV, and only a thorough autopsy can determine what -- if anything -- was in his system.
Until all or most of these are answered, it's premature to speculate about the officer or about Mr. Crutcher - not that that will stop anyone.
Hillary has already told us the shooting was caused by "systemic racism" despite having no information to back that up.
Last edited:
The Guardian needs to learn how to do arithmetic. 194+130+15+13+387=739. So who are the other 51? Also, dying by the hands of the police and dying in police custody are slightly different problems. If your cell mate stabs you in the night, you might die in police custody. Your death wouldn't be by the hands of the police.
The guy in the helicopter flying over head, several hundred feet said "that guy looks like a bad dude" as he was standing there with his hands raised in the air.
So, what made him "look like a bad dude"? It certainly wasn't aggression toward the officers or anyone else around.
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...A02EA1516E96CD38AE20A02EA&fsscr=0&FORM=VDFSRV
So, what made him "look like a bad dude"? It certainly wasn't aggression toward the officers or anyone else around.
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...A02EA1516E96CD38AE20A02EA&fsscr=0&FORM=VDFSRV
I took that as size and that he wasn't following what would be normal protocol and likely ignoring commands from police.
The guy may not have been following orders. The bottom line is none of the officers had any reason to believe their lives were in danger. There was no reason to take the man's life.
I feel sorry for deaf people that get pulled over.
I feel sorry for deaf people that get pulled over.
You don't know if they had reason to be fearful or not. That's your opinion.
Look at the video, good lort. It's obvious they had no reason to be fearful for their lives. Is there something wrong with you? You did actually serve combat duty? You were in an actual fire fight?
Everyone keeps mentioning this. But this has absolutely nothing to do with the woman on the ground firing the deadly shot.
It may or may not. Was she able to hear him? He could certainly hear her when she said "shots fired".
Regardless, the point is, how does he "look like a bad dude"? He displays no aggression and no weapon is visible. Someone said it was because of his size. So, just because someone is large, it means they "look like a bad dude"?
And it's clear didn't and you weren't. You've never seen how a very benign situation can evolve into hell in the blink of an eye. Regardless, the two situations aren't that closely related.
I want to hear the radio calls prior to the video starting which led her to be in the state of heightened stress. I mean, she basically rolls up on scene and within a matter of 10-20 seconds, she's fired her service weapon, assuming she wasn't the original person on the scene. I honestly don't know.
Assuming she was he officer that arrived on scene, she shows up, a very large man suspected of being on dust is not obeying commands, she's scared, she's never been in this situation before, the man is escalating the situation, she has her gun drawn (probably never had to do that before), she's scared shitless because she doesn't know what's about to happen. The guy starts walking away, she sees his hand drop to his side, her finger is on the trigger and ready, her pulse is racing, adrenaline 10 x the normal amount of flowing through her, she's shaking with fear, the other guy and her are screaming at this guy to get on the ground, sweat running down her face and into her eyes, she's terrified, she's got a family at home, she was just running a radar gun listening to Jason Andean, fear, she hears an audible pop of the taser as she sees the guys hand dropping for his waste and she fires. 5 seconds later she realizes she actually pulled the trigger, instinctively, out of fear, a reaction to hearing the taser, she doesn't know. The gun, it just went off in her hands, She just shot a man, something she prayed she would never have to do. You hear her come over the radio and she can barely get the words "shots fired" out of her mouth, out of breath, effects of the adrenaline kicking in, she doesn't know what she just did, and then reality sets in that she just killed a man.
Yea it's really easy.
Uh yea. I see dudes walking around all the time and say to myself, I wouldn't **** with that dude, he looks like he could probably whip my ***.
You hear him talking on the ICS, it's separate from the radio, you actually have to key the mic to talk on the radio. And if so, you are a lot more concise and non conversational when you do. She keyed up and they heard her on the radio.
It would be like ATC Hearing every conversation in the cockpit of an airplane.
I think she was the one on scene following the guy as he started toward the SUV. I thought it was a guy who drove up with the radio on, ran up to help out. I think his help was to tase the guy as he got to the driver's door of the SUV. It looks like she shot right after that. It may have been the guy's sudden movement when tased that triggered it (no pun intended), or it could have been the sound of the taser. It's pure speculation on anyone's part as to why she pulled the trigger. She probably doesn't know herself. I've never been in a combat or police situation, but I've been in a few sticky spots. When adrenaline kicks in, details are scarce.
The last sentence is the best point. When **** like this happens, you barely have control of the situation.
What did he mean by "looks like a bad dude"? If you saw that guy at a gym you might say the same thing. The meaning of it is different to different people.
There are a few parts missing from video.
Why is perp parked in wrong lane?
Was female alone?
Where had perp been to be walking between the two vehicles?
Was she first on scene, saw perp in wrong lane and over loud speaker made a request for him to walk back to squad car?
Did perp get pissed and walk back to officer and seeing the size of him she ordered him back to his car?
She follows him to car door, and he doesn't get in. She is alone at this time until other officer joins from behind.
Perp refuses to get into car and starts piddling with his pants. Did he unzip and expose himself? What was in his hand?
Fellow officer tazers causing quick jerk from perp, and she fires?
The thing that causes dude to look bad, Perp is 6'+ and ovr 235. Cop is 5'2 and 135. This is a problem when you put those small females in a dangerous situation with a lethal weapon. She is going to pop a cap before she allows herself to be the victim.
"Bad Dude" comment came while other officers were behind female cop.
Shots fired comment came from second female on the scene.
Last edited:
First degree? That is idiotic. First degree normally calls for planning time. Is not proper call for this scene.
I agree with that part. Can't remember what show it was on, but there was that video where the huge dude beat the crap out of the female office and he did while his very young daughter was begging him to stop. As he slammed his fists into her face, he told his daughter he wasn't going back to prison. Sadly folks want to live in real time today and not wait for the facts.
First degree manslaughter. In OK that includes the unintentional death of another in the "heat of passion" by use of a deadly weapon. I think it fits the scenario. I wouldn't be keen on a first degree murder charge, but first degree manslaughter as defined in OK seems like the reasonable charge.
She thought he was on PCP and he probably was according to evidence, so she was qualified in that regard. Why she was on the force and allowed anywhere near a firearm is my question. I've lived long enough to have a limit as to what I can be "expected" to believe. I don't believe there is a systemic racial problem here, but Tulsa has a major problem with who they will give a badge, imo. I don't like to sound sexist or any other kind of ist, but women, and men who are slight in physical stature, deserve extra scrutiny before being put in positions of authority. Andie made Barney keep his bullet in his pocket for a reason.
Did you ever hear her say that she thought he was on PCP over the radio just before the shooting? So, since it was reported that they found PCP in his vehicle, "he probably was"?
Her attorney said, after the fact, that she thought he was reaching in the vehicle. She was close enough to realize his windows were rolled up.
No, not on radio. It was "reported." Perhaps a statement from another officer? Hell if I know where it came from. I'm not trying to make a case here (sorry if I made that impression on you), just expressing my opinion that better testing and scrutinizing should be used by some law enforcement agencies. Tulsa's in this case. Recognizing someone ain't right in the head (if she did) doesn't qualify a person to act properly themselves.
Are you only willing to accept evidence that was broadcast on a radio?
Here's a novel idea: give the justice system a chance. Figure out what the hell went wrong and correct it.
No, I'm saying people say a lot of things after the fact, to "build their case" when there is no proof of that at the time. They supposedly found (not saying they did or did not) PCP in the vehicle, so after the fact, someone can say "yeah, they acted like they were on PCP" when there was never any mention of it prior to finding it.
Agree with the second sentence quoted above.
The other officers had enough calm, rational thought, to walk her backwards to the other patrol car so her face didn't appear on the dash cam. They were obviously thinking in a calm manner and not flustered.
I actually didn't hear her talk on the radio at all other than to say "shots fired"