That indicted Tulsa cop.... If she gets convicted.....

[Original Mountaineer1]

Will all citizens then have complete discretion to disobey law enforcement whenever they feel like it? Let's say she didn't shoot him. What if died from a taser? What if he died from a heart attack when 3-4 cops jumped on his ***? What if he had been allergic to the pepper spray and stopped breathing? Technically, there would be no difference right?

Yes I am exaggerating to a degree but the evidence that tells me that the dead man was 100% responsible for his own death. When his right hand came down, he sealed his own fate. Sure makes you wonder if this wasn’t a “suicide by cop” situation……

 

[bornaneer]

A more interesting debate might develop if she does go to jail........Female cop goes to jail......while male cops walk.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

Will all citizens then have complete discretion to disobey law enforcement whenever they feel like it? Let's say she didn't shoot him. What if died from a taser? What if he died from a heart attack when 3-4 cops jumped on his ***? What if he had been allergic to the pepper spray and stopped breathing? Technically, there would be no difference right?

Yes I am exaggerating to a degree but the evidence that tells me that the dead man was 100% responsible for his own death. When his right hand came down, he sealed his own fate. Sure makes you wonder if this wasn’t a “suicide by cop” situation……

She had absolutely no reason to feel her life, or the lives of others around her, were in danger. This is the exact same criteria a private citizen must use in order to use deadly force.

 

[mule_eer]

Will all citizens then have complete discretion to disobey law enforcement whenever they feel like it? Let's say she didn't shoot him. What if died from a taser? What if he died from a heart attack when 3-4 cops jumped on his ***? What if he had been allergic to the pepper spray and stopped breathing? Technically, there would be no difference right?

Yes I am exaggerating to a degree but the evidence that tells me that the dead man was 100% responsible for his own death. When his right hand came down, he sealed his own fate. Sure makes you wonder if this wasn’t a “suicide by cop” situation……

If that right hand came down because he got tasered, it doesn't help her situation much.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

She had absolutely no reason to feel her life, or the lives of others around her, were in danger. This is the exact same criteria a private citizen must use in order to use deadly force.

Cops have different criteria, and if she felt he was going for a weapon when his hand dropped, she will likely be found innocent.

 

[Mntneer]

Cops have different criteria, and if she felt he was going for a weapon when his hand dropped, she will likely be found innocent.

There needs to be better, and clearer, protocol for who draws their weapons and who has priority in using them. So often police officers throw the 4th rule of firearms out the window and just shoot away.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

Cops have different criteria, and if she felt he was going for a weapon when his hand dropped, she will likely be found innocent.

He was tasered, for phuck's sake.

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

If that right hand came down because he got tasered, it doesn't help her situation much.

I actually posted that on my earlier thread on this topic. It is very possible that is what happened. Still, I can't help but think that had he only cooperated in this situation, everyone goes home that night.

 

[Mntneer]

He was tasered, for phuck's sake.

But if one cop tasers him, and the others in that split second aren't fully aware of the taser, and see a hand move, then it's easy to see how a jumpy cop could shoot. Hence the "Manslaughter" charge.

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

He was tasered, for phuck's sake.

If he was under the influence of PCP ( early reports noted that PCP was found in the vehicle) then the taser may have not worked well anyway. I can't tell when he was actually taser in the video.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

If he was under the influence of PCP ( early reports noted that PCP was found in the vehicle) then the taser may have not worked well anyway. I can't tell when he was actually taser in the video.

One of the videos correlates the audio and the video very well. You can see him begin to slump immediately after being tased and within a second later the officer fires.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

I'll add to that, you also have a smallish woman against a 200+ lb man whom she allegedly believed to be on PCP. I would say she was likely terrified. At such a serious size difference, her fear was likely heightened.

Look for the discussion in this specific case to turn toward women in having a different standard when confronting someone of much more significant size.

I also think you guys have an unrealistic understanding of the training cops actually have and routinely train. In most cases, they've likely never had to draw their weapon let alone fire it in a real life situation. Wonder if she has kids at home? I can tell you from experience, you never know how you're going to respond until the first time you are in a situation like this and what goes through your mind in that crucial 1/2 second before you pull the trigger.

Regardless, the system is working. They reviewed the case, they've indicted her, and she will stand for her actions as in most cases where a questionable shooting occurs. That's the point that gets lost but the most crucial in my opinion. In most of these incidents, where it's questionable, the cop is in fact charged. I don't see where the system is broken. That's the way it's supposed to work.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

He was tasered, for phuck's sake.

So? That's doesn't drop people 100% of the time, especially ones on PCP, if in fact he was.
To be honest though, she was likely scared shitless, when the taser went off, she probably though in that fraction of a second that her partner had shot and she just let loose as well, instinctively.

She's standing trial for it.

 

[Mntneer]

This video is about a year old, but it shows how people don't fully understand those split second decisions that must be made.

 

[Mntneer]

 

[mule_eer]

If he was under the influence of PCP ( early reports noted that PCP was found in the vehicle) then the taser may have not worked well anyway. I can't tell when he was actually taser in the video.

Your earlier point about him cooperating is valid. I should add that a controlled substance in someone's car doesn't imply that the driver, or owner for that matter, knows it's there or uses himself. My understanding of folks on PCP is that they are violent, and they are also more or less oblivious to pain. He didn't seem violent to me. Uncooperative? I kind of assume that based on the cop's drawn gun and him walking away. Violent? Not so much, although we didn't get the whole thing from start to finish on any video that has been released.

 

[mule_eer]

Both of those videos are good examples of the police interacting with the community that feels at risk. That's a good thing, and that's how you go about making changes in perception. We need more of that - not necessarily running tons of protestors through the training scenarios - but interaction and conversation. Everybody involved has to go in with an open mind though. Those discussions could devolve into shouting matches if those involved don't want to listen to another perspective.

 

[bornaneer]

In an earlier thread I brought up the subject of an out of the box idea of using a specially designed net to entrap non dangerous uncooperative suspects. I was surprised no one called me an idiot or even commented on it.

 

[mule_eer]

In an earlier thread I brought up the subject of an out of the box idea of using a specially designed net to entrap non dangerous uncooperative suspects. I was surprised no one called me an idiot or even commented on it.

I grew up about 9 miles north of the French Creek Game Farm (later to become the WV Wildlife Center). Every fall they did a hunting and trapping expo, and I went to a fair number of those. I remember watching them demo a net set up to trap animals. It was cool to watch. Having said that, you're an idiot, and your idea was dumb. I think you've seen too many Spiderman films.

 

[bornaneer]

I grew up about 9 miles north of the French Creek Game Farm (later to become the WV Wildlife Center). Every fall they did a hunting and trapping expo, and I went to a fair number of those. I remember watching them demo a net set up to trap animals. It was cool to watch. Having said that, you're an idiot, and your idea was dumb. I think you've seen too many Spiderman films.

Running into a net or trapping with a netis different from throwing a net over someone. I think its a better idea than have 5 testosterone laden guys jumping on someone and choking them to death or filling someone with lead and later finding out that they were unarmed. BTW.....I don't watch Spiderman movies.