I'm thinking Freddie Gray had a seizure

[bamaEER]

While being pinned to the ground, initial neck fracture occured, but I'll bet head trauma as well. They drag him, throw him into the truck, slam the door. On the way, the other prisoner couldn't see him, but heard him thrashing. Grand mal I bet and it caused additional damage to the already broken neck.

 

[rog1187]

While being pinned to the ground, initial neck fracture occured, but I'll bet head trauma as well. They drag him, throw him into the truck, slam the door. On the way, the other prisoner couldn't see him, but heard him thrashing. Grand mal I bet and it caused additional damage to the already broken neck.

I wondered about that possibility...would the corner be able to determine that?

 

[bamaEER]

Not sure about the seizure, but I'd imagine head trauma would be evident.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

I wondered about that possibility...would the corner be able to determine that?

There would bruising of some sort all over his body from the van if something like this happened. Particularly around the head for something to have happened with enough force to sever his spinal cord.

It will be other trauma besides the spinal cord that will be the clues to what happened and when his fatal injury occured.

 

[Popeer]

While being pinned to the ground, initial neck fracture occured, but I'll bet head trauma as well. They drag him, throw him into the truck, slam the door. On the way, the other prisoner couldn't see him, but heard him thrashing. Grand mal I bet and it caused additional damage to the already broken neck.

Last night on the news it was mentioned that an injury to the back of his head in the area where his spinal cord was severed was consistent with the size and shape of an exposed bolt on the floor of the van, leaving open the possibility that he might have struck it while thrashing around. From the beginning, Baltimore police officials said that when he was put into the van he was conscious and able to walk (the foot-dragging was his resistance to being placed in custody) and when the van arrived he was unconscious.

 

[bornaneer]

Last night on the news it was mentioned that an injury to the back of his head in the area where his spinal cord was severed was consistent with the size and shape of an exposed bolt on the floor of the van, leaving open the possibility that he might have struck it while thrashing around. From the beginning, Baltimore police officials said that when he was put into the van he was conscious and able to walk (the foot-dragging was his resistance to being placed in custody) and when the van arrived he was unconscious.

The states attorney said he died because of actions INSIDE the van. The driver of the van, who is Black, was the officer charged with 2nd degree murder.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

The states attorney said he died because of actions INSIDE the van. The driver of the van, who is Black, was the officer charged with 2nd degree murder.

I just saw something in which the medical examiner found no other trauma, which would be inconsistent with dying from actions inside the van, it seems. If he was thrashing around so violently as to sever his spinal cord, then it would stand to reason he would have bruising elsewhere. Shoulder, elbow, face, etc.

Then there's this: http://touch.baltimoresun.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-83373499/
Which indicates that it isn't unprecedented for police to drive iradically with handcuffed people in the van so that they get injured. There were apparently other cases of them doing this and people getting paralyzed and killed.

But, again, if that was the case you'd think there'd be bruising elsewhere.

 

[rog1187]

I just saw something in which the medical examiner found no other trauma, which would be inconsistent with dying from actions inside the van, it seems. If he was thrashing around so violently as to sever his spinal cord, then it would stand to reason he would have bruising elsewhere. Shoulder, elbow, face, etc.

Then there's this: http://touch.baltimoresun.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-83373499/
Which indicates that it isn't unprecedented for police to drive iradically with handcuffed people in the van so that they get injured. There were apparently other cases of them doing this and people getting paralyzed and killed.

But, again, if that was the case you'd think there'd be bruising elsewhere.

Wasn't there another person in the van...wouldn't he be able to say if they were driving erratically?

 

[Popeer]

The states attorney said he died because of actions INSIDE the van. The driver of the van, who is Black, was the officer charged with 2nd degree murder.

Actually what he's charged with is "depraved heart murder" in the second degree - what's known in some states as depraved indifference homicide - and it's based more on what the driver and other officers in the van didn't do inside the van, which was respond to Gray's repeated calls for help until it was past the point where he could have been saved. The charge basically says that the officers involved knew he was in danger but still did nothing, leading directly to his death. If he had survived they still could have been charged with reckless endangerment.

 

[mneilmont]

Actually what he's charged with is "depraved heart murder" in the second degree - what's known in some states as depraved indifference homicide - and it's based more on what the driver and other officers in the van didn't do inside the van, which was respond to Gray's repeated calls for help until it was past the point where he could have been saved. The charge basically says that the officers involved knew he was in danger but still did nothing, leading directly to his death. If he had survived they still could have been charged with reckless endangerment.

Pop, if that is the case, there is going to be a logjam in in both the EMS and police activity in Baltimore. The games will begin with contact by police. Then "I can't breath". Call EMS. Then EMS "cannot find a medical problem". EMS must inquire, "do you want to go to the ER?". Police, EMS and hospital ER probably cannot handle more that 5 or 6 complaints per shift.

It is not unusual to find someone faking some problem to get a sympathy release during normal times and patrol. Now, the officer discretion is removed. To be safe, he is going to have to ask if there is a medical problem.