Again, reading comprehension fails you. The general play is the same, blocking and formation may change which makes people think they are running the same play over and over. Just move on to someone else.
Oline fixable?
- Thread starter yunginsNU2
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Height on the OL is overrated, just as it is at QB. I would rather have a guy who is 6'1 that drives people than a 6'8 guy that lumbers around. Only the tackle position really gains anything from height and the whole wingspan argument is debatable. I think in terms of frame you still need to be 6ft+ to hold the necessary weight but that's where the advantage ends. The closer you get to 7 the more trouble you have with leverage, IMHO.
We're also seeing a trend away from 6'6+ QBs and more to guys that are 6'0 that can just play. Height is great if you have it but it's just not that important unless you are a receiver or DB.
I have my doubts about that. I want receivers with long arms and hands. OL that are extending their arms out are going to commit holding penalties or get injured. You need to get your body in front of the defender with footwork and have power and drive to push people. Some of the physical criteria used to evaluate players is just not that reliable an indicator of success.
Good stuff. I was waiting for you to chime in. I believe I read somewhere that the average NFL offensive lineman is 6'4" and about 320. I remember Urban Meyer mentioning once that what he looks for in an offensive tackle is someone that is a good basketball player because of their footwork. Footwork can be developed to a degree but it is definitely more difficult in season. One of our posters said we should be developing some HS tight ends into our OT. I think there's some merit in that.
I'm not thrilled with DR at this point but I think he's doing the best he can with what he inherited. I'm not opposed to MJ keeping him IF he has a solid plan for transforming the OL. I'm not sure there is a coach out there that could take this group to honorable mention All B1G.
Left to right Corcoran, Piper, Hixson, Lutovsky, Anthony.
Hixson has no one head up. By the time he looks left, all 4 DL are already past him.
With the low snap and CT fumbling it, then picking it up,
he got the throw off in 2.5 seconds from snap to throw.
How is NU not down to its 3rd or 4th unit QB by now?
The fastest move by any NU OLmen was Lutovsky flying backwards.
Callahan is a great offensive line coach and obviously he's not coming here. But the best O-line coach in the country is Mike Munchak.
It's stupid to insist as an OC that you must have five guys out in patterns when your five can't block their four. Frost never got that. Whipple also seems to care more about running his plays rather than adapting to what he has. I've been saying this for years now. Take two of our backup tackles and move them to TE.
Probably a moot point, but going QB under center would be a great counter to the pass rush. Disguise things a bit. Have the QB take different drops, change the launchpoint so that that outside rushers don't know for sure where they should be trying to get to. Run some draws off that giving the RB a running start with momentum. Break a few arm tackles and slow down that pass rush. You can obviously run some handoffs with play action or bootlegs off that-- two plays which are more effective when the QB has his back turned to the defense (which doesn't happen in the shotgun)
I'm just being philosophical here. If your line stinks, I think doing a bit of variety isn't a bad thing. But our linemen do not communicate with each other and "dumbing things down" for them is probably the safer way to go.
The 1 time they went under center as you suggest... victory formation and they fumbled it.. I will pass on that
I'm going to say the only way to fix the OL is to pay top dollar for the best OL coach in the country and have him tear down our OL group and build it back up, same goes for our DL coach. Quick fix is to bring in great transfers through the portal who are proven and you do that with great NIL money.
In other words, you agree with me that its a moot point. I was just talking philosophically.
Yes, its fixable but not by Donovan Raiola. Should have never been hired to begin with. It doesn't take anyone with very much intelligence to see that
No way. There is more than enough talent on the roster to win the Big 10. Its clearly terrible coaching and player development
Bill Bedenbaugh could beat Ohio St. with our current guys. We have terrible/horrible players development. Ex.: Matt Farniok
Farniok was the third option at guard for the Cowboys and he failed miserably when pressed in to action. He was so bad that they signed a retired o lineman to replace him asap.
Hahahahah... the way I see it you have 2 choices.. make moves or make excuses.. sounds like there are more excuses than anything thus far when it comes to the oline... hopefully MJ can make the right noves to get some dudes in there that can be at min average.. I would take that at this point.
I think at this point the moves are schematic like using RBs and TEs to block and moving the pocket. Because our S & C program has made these guys sow and immobile and that can't be fixed much during the season.
Interesting quotes from coach Whipple about last weeks practice leading up to Rutgers and this weeks practice leading up to Purdue. I really don't know what to think about it except we may have some lazy linemen who aren't doing their jobs and need to be pushed.
This is why you need strong competition and mentally strong individuals at the OL and DL if some of the boys are not up to the task then sit them.
On offense, coordinator Mark Whipple said the O-line has rebounded this week from a dismal showing Friday night in New Jersey. "We had our worst week of practice" before the Rutgers game, Whipple said. "We only had one day to work hard. ... We weren't very good that day, and that carried over.
"We've completely flipped it," he said. "This has been the two best days we've had all year. And we had a day off. I think that helped."
This is why you need strong competition and mentally strong individuals at the OL and DL if some of the boys are not up to the task then sit them.
On offense, coordinator Mark Whipple said the O-line has rebounded this week from a dismal showing Friday night in New Jersey. "We had our worst week of practice" before the Rutgers game, Whipple said. "We only had one day to work hard. ... We weren't very good that day, and that carried over.
"We've completely flipped it," he said. "This has been the two best days we've had all year. And we had a day off. I think that helped."
They cannot be great. They cannot be good. But I believe if they are actually applying themselves in practice they can be average and maybe even above average.
A O line is one of the few units that can improve over the season. I am not optimistic but I am hopeful.
A O line is one of the few units that can improve over the season. I am not optimistic but I am hopeful.
So I'm watching that and thinking both guards look horrible..
I'm not a line person, but looking at that makes me think, If my guys can't block while moving backwards, I'd just as soon have them run block, going forward (as long as it's not more than 1-2 yards. At least you have a better shot of taking someone out of the picture.
Call me crazy, but I'd try to stop the whole back pedaling thing, since it's clear that they can't do it. If even they try to stand them up at the los.. somehow that seems a better outcome.
Your tackles can’t just stand them up at the LOS. I agree I would like a little bigger commitment to the run game but defenses are daring us to throw it deep with the way they attack our run game.
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While the line is getting brutalized from lack of footwork, there’s also been a lot of baffling missed assignments or lack of communication as someone mentioned above.
The mental game could certainly still improve this year if the coach can make it happen (up in the air).
Jeremiah Sirles mentioned his top priority (also mentioned above) was the gritty, nasty attitude that he sees lacking with these guys.
Whip’s reference to improved practice could be simply related to a few guys sick of being the laughing stock and liable for Thompson’s well-being and finally tapping into that frustration to play with more heart. We’ll see…. it should not have taken this long.
The mental game could certainly still improve this year if the coach can make it happen (up in the air).
Jeremiah Sirles mentioned his top priority (also mentioned above) was the gritty, nasty attitude that he sees lacking with these guys.
Whip’s reference to improved practice could be simply related to a few guys sick of being the laughing stock and liable for Thompson’s well-being and finally tapping into that frustration to play with more heart. We’ll see…. it should not have taken this long.
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the other thing is that guys like Schiano are very good at designing front 7 schemes to confuse an O line. There are times where it looks like a guy missed an assignment too where it wasn’t his guy.
Piper has been working at both center and guard so some of it might be mental processing errors between the two jobs
the other thing is that guys like Schiano are very good at designing front 7 schemes to confuse an O line. There are times where it looks like a guy missed an assignment too where it wasn’t his guy.
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I hate to say this but one thing I think needs to be analyzed is our strength and conditioning protocol. Our Oline is strong but holy hell they are slow and unathletic (Dline could be worse). We HAVE to be able to make our good athletes great athletes. We HAVE to be able to make take our decent athletes and make them good athletes and on down the chain. I like our strength coach but at this point everything has to scrutinized.
We lost a 2nd round pick at Center and then lost our best two returning OL in Nouili and Teddy. Added all new offense and coaches. What did people expect at this moment?
You would expect any one of the other 18 OLmen who have been here for 2-3-4 years to be able to step in and perform. Not at Cam's level, but at least be average.
Unrealistic expectations can be a butch. Personally I think we’ve made baby steps at getting better