Let's Talk Defense...

[HuskerLove]

Do we truly think that the Huskers will ever get back to consistently having a top 15 / 20 overall defense?

IMHO, I say no, not until HCSF makes defense a priority and hires a veteran DC who has orchestrated top-tier defenses year in and year out. By no means am I saying this to diss Chinander, but let's be honest, his time as a DC has never been about trying to shutout opposing offenses - the entire goal of his scheme is to try and force the occasional turnover so that our offense gets more opportunities to score than the other team. I understand that football has evolved over the years, but nothing about that strategy screams 'Blackshirts' to me and that sucks.

As a simple matter of geography we cannot expect to ever again (consistently) recruit defensive studs at the same level as Alabama, LSU, Clemson, OSU, etc., and that even further amplifies the importance of having a DC who knows how to out-scheme the opposing team's OC each week.

This isn't intended to be a Negative Nancy type post, just stating what I believe and was hoping that others would chime-in as well with their thoughts on the subject

GBR!

 

[huskerssalts]

All I know and touching is Coach Chin has improved our defense every year he’s been here. We still have a ways to go but he has improved our defense every season.

I will say this much, if our defenses don’t start turning that corner with that talent Chin is getting in, Then I’d have to assume Chin is next in line to be fired if he doesn’t get our defenses going.

 

[timnsun]

This isn’t meant to be a negative Nancy post... but after reading it (and your interpretation of it), how else are we supposed to read it?

 

[HuskerLove]

This isn’t meant to be a negative Nancy post... but after reading it (and your interpretation of it), how else are we supposed to read it?

As I stated in my post, I'm not trying to be negative but this is just how I view the state of our defense at the moment - I then asked for others to share their thoughts/feelings as well.

This is called having a grownup conversation where people are allowed to express their opinions without being chastised because of them. It's much more effective when you actually share your thoughts on the subject rather than simply bashing the intent.

 

[timnsun]

As I stated in my post, I'm not trying to be negative but this is just how I view the state of our defense at the moment - I then asked for others to share their thoughts/feelings as well.

This is called having a grownup conversation where people are allowed to express their opinions without being chastised because of them. It's much more effective when you actually share your thoughts on the subject rather than simply bashing the intent.

I’m all for sharing opinions, but call it what it is, don’t pretend it’s something it’s not.

That’s also called being grown up and accepting differing opinions.

 

[huskerssalts]

With the style of offense we run, we won’t see many Top 15 or better defenses. If we can hit top 30 range and up, most years that will be good enough or should be anyways as long as we are hitting Top 25-20 offenses every year.

 

[mpbrown27]

I think saying the defensive strategy is to force a turnover every once in awhile is an oversimplification.

 

[HuskerLove]

I’m all for sharing opinions, but call it what it is, don’t pretend it’s something it’s not.

That’s also called being grown up and accepting differing opinions.

You didn't give an opinion - don't pretend that's something it's not.

Please either constructively add to this thread by telling us your thoughts on the defense or just pretend it doesn't exist.

 

[HuskerLove]

I think saying the defensive strategy is to force a turnover every once in awhile is an oversimplification.

Care to elaborate?

The interviews with Frost and Chinander about defense seem to allows involve creating turnovers so that our offense gets another crack at scoring.

 

[BeautifulDayintheNeighborhood]

Do we truly think that the Huskers will ever get back to consistently having a top 15 / 20 overall defense?

IMHO, I say no, not until HCSF makes defense a priority and hires a veteran DC who has orchestrated top-tier defenses year in and year out. By no means am I saying this to diss Chinander, but let's be honest, his time as a DC has never been about trying to shutout opposing offenses - the entire goal of his scheme is to try and force the occasional turnover so that our offense gets more opportunities to score than the other team. I understand that football has evolved over the years, but nothing about that strategy screams 'Blackshirts' to me and that sucks.

As a simple matter of geography we cannot expect to ever again (consistently) recruit defensive studs at the same level as Alabama, LSU, Clemson, OSU, etc., and that even further amplifies the importance of having a DC who knows how to out-scheme the opposing team's OC each week.

This isn't intended to be a Negative Nancy type post, just stating what I believe and was hoping that others would chime-in as well with their thoughts on the subject

GBR!

Does a bear **** in the woods?

 

[Headcard]

Care to elaborate?

The interviews with Frost and Chinander about defense seem to allows involve creating turnovers so that our offense gets another crack at scoring.

While the defense wants to be aggressive, force TO’s and make negative plays. It’s not like they don’t care if the opponent scores, they just want to force the issue and not let the opposition have long sustained drives.

 

[phoenix4nu]

A lack of a pass rush has prevented us from stopping teams when the game is on the line. That needs to improve.

 

[HuskerLove]

A lack of a pass rush has prevented us from stopping teams when the game is on the line. That needs to improve.

Do you think our lack of pass rush is mostly talent or coaching related?

I ask because when I watch WI their LB's always seem to find the holes in the line and get to the QB unabated. And when I watch our LB's blitz it's like they just run into the back of our D-Line half the time.

 

[timnsun]

You didn't give an opinion - don't pretend that's something it's not.

Please either constructively add to this thread by telling us your thoughts on the defense or just pretend it doesn't exist.

I don’t have an opinion. I don’t know if we’ll ever field a top defense while Frost is here. You yourself stated what you believe the defensive philosophy appears to be.

I just don’t understand starting a negative post and then saying this isn’t meant to be negative. Just own it.

 

[Anon1727835823]

All I know and touching is Coach Chin has improved our defense every year he’s been here. We still have a ways to go but he has improved our defense every season.

I will say this much, if our defenses don’t start turning that corner with that talent Chin is getting in, Then I’d have to assume Chin is next in line to be fired if he doesn’t get our defenses going.

I think part of our defense's effectiveness also falls on the Offense. I say this because, you call defense differently in close games vs when we have a 2-3 score advantage. Our offense hasnt been as efficient with its opportunities that Scott wants it to be. The 2 sides feed off of each other, and quite frankly, both have been less than where he wants them.

 

[cubsker_rivals142943]

that's true. multiple games last year where the defense did enough in the first half that we should have had insurmountable leads. Colorado and Purdue come to mind.

Iowa was another one where if the offense was clicking, we likely win comfortably.

 

[HominidHusker]

We can look at Wisconsin, Iowa, Northwestern, and even Minnesota to see teams just in our division with solid, disciplined defensive performance without top tier talent.

There’s no reason why we can’t coach up our D to play better, and I think the Frost-style offense excuse gets overstated. If I’m honest, I’d say it’s about 50/50 whether it happens with Chinander, but I sure hope it does.

There’s still a lot of new bodies with not much time in the system and I’m not sure the roster is quite complete with what we need as far as talent and experience.
But having said that, there are a lot of things to like about what we’re building on D.

I see a lot of “potential” building on that side of the ball, it just needs to get unleashed. Coaches need to make it happen.

 

[HuskerLove]

I don’t have an opinion. I don’t know if we’ll ever field a top defense while Frost is here. You yourself stated what you believe the defensive philosophy appears to be.

I just don’t understand starting a negative post and then saying this isn’t meant to be negative. Just own it.

Apparently you live in a world of sunshine and lollipops, where nothing 'bad' ever occurs, but if it did, nobody would be encouraged to speak about it. For that I apologize and hope I didn't hurt your feelings with MY opinion on the defense. For your sake, I hope that one day you're able to step out of that bubble.

Having said that, something tells me your actual opinion is probably right in-line with mine, which is why you have nothing of substance to add and instantly want to ruin the fun for everyone else.

Please just take your ball and go home.

 

[HominidHusker]

I think part of our defense's effectiveness also falls on the Offense. I say this because, you call defense differently in close games vs when we have a 2-3 score advantage. Our offense hasnt been as efficient with its opportunities that Scott wants it to be. The 2 sides feed off of each other, and quite frankly, both have been less than where he wants them.

I agree offense plays a big role. I should clarify from my last post Frost “style“ offense excuse gets overused, but the offense that isn’t producing absolutely hinders the defensive performance. We’ve seen so many examples like what cubsker mentioned.
There’s a huge hole to dig out of, but I see a lot of upside on both sides of the ball this year. We’ll see what kind of ceiling this team has.

 

[HuskerLove]

We can look at Wisconsin, Iowa, Northwestern, and even Minnesota to see teams just in our division with solid, disciplined defensive performance without top tier talent.

There’s no reason why we can’t coach up our D to play better, and I think the Frost-style offense excuse gets overstated. If I’m honest, I’d say it’s about 50/50 whether it happens with Chinander, but I sure hope it does.

There’s still a lot of new bodies with not much time in the system and I’m not sure the roster is quite complete with what we need as far as talent and experience.
But having said that, there are a lot of things to like about what we’re building on D.

I see a lot of “potential” building on that side of the ball, it just needs to get unleashed. Coaches need to make it happen.

I too think we've stockpiled the 'potential' to be good on defense, but our biggest struggles so far appear to be more mental than anything - bad angles, blown coverage, poor tacking, subpar effort, etc.

Is being a great defensive player more of a mindset than anything? At what point does athletic ability no longer matter and it becomes much more about understanding and respecting the game?? Has our well-documented issue with 'culture' exacerbated what flaws we do have???

 

[timnsun]

Apparently you live in a world of sunshine and lollipops, where nothing 'bad' ever occurs, but if it did, nobody would be encouraged to speak about it. For that I apologize and hope I didn't hurt your feelings with MY opinion on the defense. For your sake, I hope that one day you're able to step out of that bubble.

Having said that, something tells me your actual opinion is probably right in-line with mine, which is why you have nothing of substance to add and instantly want to ruin the fun for everyone else.

Please just take your ball and go home.

Sorry I got your knickers in a twist. I’m not trying to be disrespectful, not name calling, just call a spade a spade.

I’m not gonna start a thread and pretend it’s something else. But that’s just me.

You’re right, we are pretty close to what the defensive expectations are... sorry for questioning you. Didn’t realize it would be so threatening.

 

[John_J_Rambo_rivals315142]

a ball control offense significantly improves a defense's appearance from the outside looking in

even if those 'good' defenses consistently breakdown when they're needed most

NU had a top-40 defense last year by DVOA (if you're not familiar, welcome to the 21st century)

I think OP is looking at all the wrong metrics, seeing as defense doesn't occur in a vacuum

 

[HominidHusker]

I too think we've stockpiled the 'potential' to be good on defense, but our biggest struggles so far appear to be more mental than anything - bad angles, blown coverage, poor tacking, subpar effort, etc.

Is being a great defensive player more of a mindset than anything? At what point does athletic ability no longer matter and it becomes much more about understanding and respecting the game?? Has our well-documented issue with 'culture' exacerbated what flaws we do have???

We’ve been poorly disciplined so far. Coaches need to get team ready. Personnel was somewhat of an issue along with installing s new scheme. But time is ticking on those excuses, and the guys that get paid a lot need to prove they’re worth it.

 

[RedCap_rivals330392]

You need to have a defense that complements your offensive style. It's different to complement a wide open offense than a more conservative ball control, methodical offense like Osborne ran. I'll leave it up to the head coach to figure out the specifics. I just want to win.

 

[John_J_Rambo_rivals315142]

I’m curious how people would rate the assistants on the staff based on results

objectively, of course

guessing one assistant would be crapped upon almost unilaterally despite his unit being the one that’s improved most

 

[Cornicator]

Do we truly think that the Huskers will ever get back to consistently having a top 15 / 20 overall defense?

IMHO, I say no, not until HCSF makes defense a priority and hires a veteran DC who has orchestrated top-tier defenses year in and year out. By no means am I saying this to diss Chinander, but let's be honest, his time as a DC has never been about trying to shutout opposing offenses - the entire goal of his scheme is to try and force the occasional turnover so that our offense gets more opportunities to score than the other team. I understand that football has evolved over the years, but nothing about that strategy screams 'Blackshirts' to me and that sucks.

As a simple matter of geography we cannot expect to ever again (consistently) recruit defensive studs at the same level as Alabama, LSU, Clemson, OSU, etc., and that even further amplifies the importance of having a DC who knows how to out-scheme the opposing team's OC each week.

This isn't intended to be a Negative Nancy type post, just stating what I believe and was hoping that others would chime-in as well with their thoughts on the subject

GBR!

No.

This scheme is desiged to hold teams in the 20 to 24 ppg game, force tons of takeaways and thus allow a high powered offense more possessions. Its built around high risk, high reward principals.

Its a scheme that works as long as you have the following:

1. a high powered offense.
2. pass rushers
3. depth in your defensive front 7
4. efficient special teams

 

[BeautifulDayintheNeighborhood]

No.

This scheme is desiged to hold teams in the 20 to 24 ppg game, force tons of takeaways and thus allow a high powered offense more possessions. Its built around high risk, high reward principals.

Its a scheme that works as long as you have the following:

1. a high powered offense.
2. pass rushers
3. depth in your defensive front 7
4. efficient special teams

I think it’s more simple than this
1. Stop the run
2. Stop the pass

that’s my defensive philosophy

 

[HominidHusker]

It was very disappointing to hear David Bell a true frosh state after the Purdue game that he knew how and why we’d be susceptible on their reverse to win the game.
Also disappointing to hear PJ Fleck say that they saw the angles of our LBs and knew they’d break runs if they played horizontal a bit- resulting in us getting gashed.

We can’t have that stuff.

 

[Headcard]

Do you think our lack of pass rush is mostly talent or coaching related?

I ask because when I watch WI their LB's always seem to find the holes in the line and get to the QB unabated. And when I watch our LB's blitz it's like they just run into the back of our D-Line half the time.

I think it’s first talent and then coaching. Meaning, first we do not have anyone that has proven to be able to get to the QB in obvious passing situations. So then we try to dial up blitzes, which have also been ineffective and put us in an even worse spot. To be honest, I’m worried about the defense next year. I’m not sure we have found an answer to our pass rush issues and I’m not sure we will be as stout studding the run with the returning DL. I’m bullish on the offense, but we might have to win some shootouts.

 

[oldjar07]

With the style of offense we run, we won’t see many Top 15 or better defenses. If we can hit top 30 range and up, most years that will be good enough or should be anyways as long as we are hitting Top 25-20 offenses every year.

Top 30 defense is mediocre in the Big 10.

 

[Headcard]

Top 30 defense is mediocre in the Big 10.

Not really. You need to look at it in terms of Points Per Possession. A team running an uptempo, high scoring offense, with a Top 30 defense would probably be a very good football team.

 

[oldjar07]

Do we truly think that the Huskers will ever get back to consistently having a top 15 / 20 overall defense?

IMHO, I say no, not until HCSF makes defense a priority and hires a veteran DC who has orchestrated top-tier defenses year in and year out. By no means am I saying this to diss Chinander, but let's be honest, his time as a DC has never been about trying to shutout opposing offenses - the entire goal of his scheme is to try and force the occasional turnover so that our offense gets more opportunities to score than the other team. I understand that football has evolved over the years, but nothing about that strategy screams 'Blackshirts' to me and that sucks.

As a simple matter of geography we cannot expect to ever again (consistently) recruit defensive studs at the same level as Alabama, LSU, Clemson, OSU, etc., and that even further amplifies the importance of having a DC who knows how to out-scheme the opposing team's OC each week.

This isn't intended to be a Negative Nancy type post, just stating what I believe and was hoping that others would chime-in as well with their thoughts on the subject

GBR!

Don't see how this post is considered negative. The OP is absolutely right that we won't have a consistently good or great defense until Frost makes it a priority. And the OP is also right that Chinander's career trajectory doesn't appear capable of attaining top 15-20 defenses consistently.

 

[oldjar07]

Not really. You need to look at it in terms of Points Per Possession. A team running an uptempo, high scoring offense, with a Top 30 defense would probably be a very good football team.

I'm not talking about offense, I'm talking about defense.

 

[Headcard]

I'm not talking about offense, I'm talking about defense.

So am I. You can't just look at Defense through the lens of "Top 30 defense isn't good enough". You need to look at it from points per possession (PPP). If we had a Top 30 defense playing uptempo offense, our PPP would probably be much lower than many of the teams who's total scoring defense it lower.

 

[NikkiSixx_rivals269993]

We pretty much have an all new defensive line this year. It's not going to start out quite as good as last years DL.

I know a lot of people were down on our defense the past two years, but I saw improvement during the season in both years. If we had had an offense with a pulse, we would have won a lot more games.

Personally, I don't like the scheme, esp in the B1G.. but some of that is changing.. We are seeing some other schools turn to this type of system, it just isn't the predominate one yet.

You have an aggressive defense mated with a high powered offense. That is the basic scheme, where the defense is designed to give up some points by being extra aggressive to get more takeaways. (See Cornicators post)

Here is where some coaching choices have to be made because If your offense isn't high powered (due to whatever factors), then as a coach, you have to either A) modify your offense to get it working via personnel or play calling changes, or B) modify the defensive scheme to be a lot more conservative, so as to not give up so many points. You could also do some of each.

Scott did attempt to modify the offense and there were injuries and such. But he did not modify the defense, and this decision made it even harder for the offense to try to keep up. This is why the record turned out to be so poor.

In my opinion, If the offense isn't dialed in, on day 1, we are going to likely take a step back this year in the win/loss column.

I think the defense will come along, just like it has the prior two years, but we just don't have an experienced line to start the season.

If I'm an opponent, I'm going to run right at Nebraska's defense, inside, outside, lots of running.. and when they start to bring up safeties to help stop the run, then I'm going over the top for big gains. This will allow me to chew up massive clock, time of possession and keep Nebraska's offense off the field and out of rhythm.

So this is why I'm not a fan of the scheme.. it all comes down to having that lighting in a bottle on offense... and if you don't have it, you get buried fast and look far more incompetent than you should.

 

[King Kong]

I’m curious how people would rate the assistants on the staff based on results

objectively, of course

guessing one assistant would be crapped upon almost unilaterally despite his unit being the one that’s improved most

Whoever coaches linebackers, at least we got rid of one of them.

 

[oldjar07]

So am I. You can't just look at Defense through the lens of "Top 30 defense isn't good enough". You need to look at it from points per possession (PPP). If we had a Top 30 defense playing uptempo offense, our PPP would probably be much lower than many of the teams who's total scoring defense it lower.

I didn't see much uptempo offense. Top 30 defense in the Big 10 puts you in the bottom half of the conference. Not going to win many championships if we're in the bottom half of the conference.

 

[Headcard]

I didn't see much uptempo offense. Top 30 defense in the Big 10 puts you in the bottom half of the conference. Not going to win many championships if we're in the bottom half of the conference.

PPP takes care of that, you don’t have to try to decide how uptempo an offense is. Also, do you really not think ball control teams like Iowa have artificially high total defense rankings?

I also don’t see the relevance of where other B1G teams rank in total D. Does the same hold true for offense? There was only one B1G team in the Top 30 of total offense last year. And FWIW, last year’s National Champions were not in the Top 30 for total defense. I guess that means less in the SEC..

 

[Cornicator]

I didn't see much uptempo offense. Top 30 defense in the Big 10 puts you in the bottom half of the conference. Not going to win many championships if we're in the bottom half of the conference.

Actually, they won't win anything if their offense continues to be a prodding liability void of playmakers. This offense is designed to stress opposing offenses vertically and from sideline to sideline on every play, out of every down and distance.

Teams should always be concerned about the following:

1. Two vertical threats on opposite boundaries, who can also block on the perimeter.

2. Versatile slot who can make plays behind the line of scrimmage, in the intermediate routes, and even be used in the running game.

3. RBs who can be one cut and go, but also be threats out of the passing game.

4. QB who can run and make people miss.

5. Tight end who stresses linebackers caught napping by the RPO.

6. Offensive tackles who can pull in the running game.

7. See 1 thru 6 and add depth x 3 at all spots.


2020 will be the 1st season we see boundary receivers who can stretch the field vertically, while also offering physicality in run support. We will also have some additional support for Wandale with the addition of Alante Brown.

the Nebraska football roster was a ******** mess when Frost arrived. its gonna take some time to build up the talent.

There will be a time very soon, where Nebraska footbal will be a matchup nightmare for teams if they can trot out a top 30 defense.

 

[HominidHusker]

Just a look at some defensive roster options:

DL: Stille, Thomas, Daniels, Riley, Robinson, Rogers, Green... group needs to step up big. What can Newsom, Payne, Hutmacher, Wildeman, Walker, Black add to the room?

LB (combined): Miller, Honas, Domann, Tannor, Nelson, Cooper, Hannah, Henrich, Snodgrass, Mauga, Reimer, Greene, Butler, Graham, Schlager, Gunnerson, D.Jackson
- everyone knows improved play is needed across the board at LB, but do we have the answers yet with still a lot of inexperience?

DB: Bootle, Taylor, Williams. Dismuke, Farmer, Clark, Newsome, Gates, Wright, Francois, Lynum, Delancy.
Would like more proven guys but this is a group that seems primed to lead the Defense.

Plenty of quality walkons aren’t on this list, but it’s a rundown of what kind of options are out there. Coaches need to find the magic formula and get this thing humming.

A few key players for me that could really change the defensive outlook if they step up would be Keem Green, Ty Robinson, Eteva Mauga, Nick Henrich, Niko Cooper, Quinton Newsome/Braxton Clark and Myles Farmer.
I predict Ben Stille, Damion Daniels, Deontre Thomas, JoJo Domann, Caleb Tannor, Deontaii Williams, and Marquel Dismuke will have their best years and really elevate the D.

Plenty of other guys will be improved thinking about Taylor-Britt, Nelson, Miller, Robinson, etc.

Other guys will surely step up and contribute and maybe assert themselves as regular starters.

Now the disclaimer:
I’m not convinced some of our guys being better is good enough, but it’s just finding ways to be optimistic.
A LOT has to come together for the defense to really advance to where it needs to be.