Covid 8.0 no name calling

[MOHUSKER]

So to you guys who for some reason disagree with a lot of Doctors about Hydroxychloroquine lets say you get Covid but are not put in the hospital. Your Dr advises you that the drug is mostly safe and there is a lot of information stating it works on Covid but there has not been time enough for proper trials.

What do you do take it or do you deny the prescription because you hate Trump

First, separate the two. I am trying to correct misinformation and spin by Northwood, which has nothing to do with political leanings from me.

I also question why he isn’t questioning orders from Texas, Ohio, Idaho, North Carolina, New York or Kentucky that are largely the same.

https://nashp.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/State-covid-drug-chart-3-27-2020.pdf

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

If patients are denied hospital, but the feds are offering this money, easy to see some very opposing scenarios with incentives going on.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

First, separate the two. I am trying to correct misinformation and spin by Northwood, which has nothing to do with political leanings from me.

I also question why he isn’t questioning orders from Texas, Ohio, Idaho, North Carolina, New York or Kentucky that are largely the same.

https://nashp.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/State-covid-drug-chart-3-27-2020.pdf

There is no political spin, I'm using your links and quotes.
You are retconning

Does it bother you joe blow in botswanna get better cares than folks in these states?
Guess not, I'm spinning with your quotes and sources.

 

[dinglefritz]

But, experts seem to not count for some reason all the sudden.
And again, I'll mention that each hospital gets 13 grand from the feds for each wuhan admittance,39 grand if intubated.

NOBODY is intubating a patient to get the hospital more money. Just put that idea out of your mind. As greedy as I know some hospitals and Dr.s are, there is nobody that I am aware of who would do that and I know a LOT of Drs. For one thing, their colleagues would raise hell IF they had even a hint that somebody had done that.

 

[schuele]

So, if a Dr said it has shown promise, and he should be the only conscionanable source,?

The poster asked me a question and I answered it honestly. Why is that so difficult for you to comprehend?

I have no underlying health conditions, and I'm in better shape than 90% of people my age. So if I'm merely diagnosed with COVID-19 but I'm not terribly sick, I like the chances of recovering on my own versus taking an unproven drug. If you find that position unwise or unreasonable, I really don't care.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

NOBODY is intubating a patient to get the hospital more money. Just put that idea out of your mind. As greedy as I know some hospitals and Dr.s are, there is nobody that I am aware of who would do that and I know a LOT of Drs. For one thing, their colleagues would raise hell IF they had even a hint that somebody had done that.

I'm stating facts, I could have left out the intubating fact.
I'm not suggesting that, and would rather clear this fact up with you than have someone else say why are you omitting the intubation, then accuse me.
So , again, Just facts, not inferring anything.

But, I am pointing out inadequate balances here, where Drs can't get their patients promising drugs, and get no incentives

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

The poster asked me a question and I answered it honestly. Why is that so difficult for you to comprehend?

I have no underlying health conditions, and I'm in better shape than 90% of people my age. So if I'm merely diagnosed with COVID-19 but I'm not terribly sick, I like the chances of recovering on my own versus taking an unproven drug. If you find that position unwise or unreasonable, I really don't care.

I didn't see you say if a Dr said so.
So fine, your choice.
Me?
I roll no such dice

 

[MOHUSKER]

But, experts seem to not count for some reason all the sudden.
And again, I'll mention that each hospital gets 13 grand from the feds for each wuhan admittance,39 grand if intubated.

Again without a source...money is being distributed by past funding, not direct COVID response. I actually think that’s reasonable as many hospitals are being hit hard despite low case counts.

https://khn.org/news/furor-erupts-b...tals-based-on-medicare-billings-not-covid-19/


States such as Minnesota, Nebraska and Montana, which the pandemic has touched relatively lightly, are getting more than $300,000 per reported COVID-19 case in the $30 billion, according to a Kaiser Health News analysis.

On the other hand, New York, the worst-hit state, would receive only $12,000 per case. Florida is getting $132,000 per case. KHN relied on an analysis by staff on the House Ways and Means Committee along with COVID-19 cases tabulated by The New York Times.

https://www.ama-assn.org/practice-m...rst-payments-issued-covid-19-financial-relief

This initial $30 billion in CARES Act relief is being directed to hospitals and physician practices in direct proportion to their share of Medicare fee-for-service (FFS) spending. The total amount of Medicare FFS spending in 2019 was $484 billion. Hypothetically, if a Medicare provider with a taxpayer ID number (TIN) accounted for 1% of total Medicare FFS spending in 2019, the TIN would receive 1% of the $30 billion.

And another good one

https://revcycleintelligence.com/ne...-per-covid-19-case-despite-medicare-rate-bump

Hospitals could lose about $1,200 per COVID-19 case even with the 20 percent increase in Medicare reimbursement included in the stimulus package, according to a new analysisfrom Strata Decision Technology. For some health systems, those losses could translate to $6,000 to $8,000 depending on payer mix.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

Again without a source...money is being distributed by past funding, not direct COVID response. I actually think that’s reasonable as many hospitals are being hit hard despite low case counts.

https://khn.org/news/furor-erupts-b...tals-based-on-medicare-billings-not-covid-19/


States such as Minnesota, Nebraska and Montana, which the pandemic has touched relatively lightly, are getting more than $300,000 per reported COVID-19 case in the $30 billion, according to a Kaiser Health News analysis.

On the other hand, New York, the worst-hit state, would receive only $12,000 per case. Florida is getting $132,000 per case. KHN relied on an analysis by staff on the House Ways and Means Committee along with COVID-19 cases tabulated by The New York Times.

https://www.ama-assn.org/practice-m...rst-payments-issued-covid-19-financial-relief

This initial $30 billion in CARES Act relief is being directed to hospitals and physician practices in direct proportion to their share of Medicare fee-for-service (FFS) spending. The total amount of Medicare FFS spending in 2019 was $484 billion. Hypothetically, if a Medicare provider with a taxpayer ID number (TIN) accounted for 1% of total Medicare FFS spending in 2019, the TIN would receive 1% of the $30 billion.

And another good one

https://revcycleintelligence.com/ne...-per-covid-19-case-despite-medicare-rate-bump

Hospitals could lose about $1,200 per COVID-19 case even with the 20 percent increase in Medicare reimbursement included in the stimulus package, according to a new analysisfrom Strata Decision Technology. For some health systems, those losses could translate to $6,000 to $8,000 depending on payer mix.

Even more when intubated.
Your last link, if it has merit, needs to be looked in to, overseen, and hospitals need to be caught up for those overseen losses.

 

[MOHUSKER]

NOBODY is intubating a patient to get the hospital more money. Just put that idea out of your mind. As greedy as I know some hospitals and Dr.s are, there is nobody that I am aware of who would do that and I know a LOT of Drs. For one thing, their colleagues would raise hell IF they had even a hint that somebody had done that.

Not to mention the quickness that someone would report them for fraud to collect a fat check.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/just...llion-false-claims-act-cases-fiscal-year-2018

If the government prevails in a qui tamaction, the whistleblower, also known as the relator, receives up to 30 percent of the recovery.

 

[MOHUSKER]

I'm stating facts, I could have left out the intubating fact.
I'm not suggesting that, and would rather clear this fact up with you than have someone else say why are you omitting the intubation, then accuse me.
So , again, Just facts, not inferring anything.

But, I am pointing out inadequate balances here, where Drs can't get their patients promising drugs, and get no incentives

Source your facts please, specifically around specific payments.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

Source your facts please, specifically around specific payments.

You apparently did. The 13 grand might have been averaged up. They fit your links

 

[MOHUSKER]

There is no political spin, I'm using your links and quotes.
You are retconning

Does it bother you joe blow in botswanna get better cares than folks in these states?
Guess not, I'm spinning with your quotes and sources.

I am not the only one who has called you out on this specific topic here.

If you are so convinced that people in Botswana get better COVID treatments and outcomes by all means figure out how to go there.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

I am not the only one who has called you out on this specific topic here.

If you are so convinced that people in Botswana get better COVID treatments and outcomes by all means figure out how to go there.

More retconning.
If a guy thats showing symptoms of wuhan gets chloroquine in botswanna,where its forbidden in some states here?
Quit retconning

 

[MOHUSKER]

You apparently did. The 13 grand might have been averaged up. They fit your links

So you are ADMITTING you have absolutely nothing to back up your 13k/39k claim here?

https://nebraska.forums.rivals.com/threads/covid-8-0-no-name-calling.265402/page-15#post-5922606

“And again, I'll mention that each hospital gets 13 grand from the feds for each wuhan admittance,39 grand if intubated.”

 

[Nebraska_Reality]

Fox is the only major outlet that takes a conservative viewpoint. They have dominated the ratings doing that yet CNN prefers to have low ratings and be Liberal. The fact that major corporations do not even act in their best interest financially shows how tainted the news has become. Obama was fawned over by every news organization but one. Trump has endured repeated false attacks and news even when accurate is tilted towards the negative, hardly the same treatment for both.

I know nothing of Sanford or Foley. I voted for same sex marriage, I believe everyone should have the right to do what they want as long as it does not affect others around them. I am conservative and I think many Liberals have lost their fricking minds. A friend of mine took his daughter to college for the indoctrination, the first thing they had to do was write and wear a name tag as to what gender they wanted to be referred as. The second thing was to hold a moment of silence for the native americans who the land the college was built on was stolen from them by the white man( their words)

Fox is the only conservative TV outlet, hence their ratings. All the others split the liberal crowd. We all know that there are more than just TV media sources, though. I was talking about the collective media (TV, radio, internet).

Mark Sanford was a conservative, married, Republican, "family values" governor of South Carolina. He went missing for a few days several years ago. One of his aides finally said that he had gone off to "hike the Appalachian Trail", which turned out to be a metaphor for going to Argentina to bang his mistress.

Foley was a GOP, family values, anti-gay Congressman from Florida...until it turned out that he was sharing photos and sexually suggestive messages with male Congressional pages. The then admitted to being an alcoholic....and gay. BTW....Fox News, when that story broke, tried identifying Foley as a Democrat...and did so for several days.

So....you have a college you don't attend dealing with people that, aside from your friend's daughter, you don't know. Why do you care so much what goes on there? Care t share what college it is?

Last comment, because I don't want to get this thread locked....part of Trump's negative coverage is because of Trump. If you want, I can list all the things he said about C19...and he said them on his own, not because of the media. You want to blame someone for Trump's negative coverage? Then blame Trump's mouth, and put the responsibility where it belongs.

 

[yort2000]

Don't forget, 5.7 infections from each infected.
Extremely high R0

Some interesting stuff starting to come out about COVID-19 spread.


"So far, no transmission of the virus in supermarkets, restaurants or hairdressers has been proven," explained Bonn virologist Hendrik Streeck on the ZDF Markus Lanz talk show.

Instead, the major outbreaks have been the result of close get-togethers over a longer period of time, he said.

That's demonstrated in, for example, outbreaks that have stemmed from après-ski parties in Ischgl, at football matches in Bergamo or at carnival celebrations in the municipality of Gangelt in the Heinsberg district of North Rhine-Westphalia."

"No evidence of live viruses on surfaces

Initial surveys and investigations in homes in Heinsberg have already provided some indications of how the virus works.

Streeck, who is director of the Institute of Virology at Bonn University, said he was able to detect coronavirus by swabbing remote controls, washbasins, mobile phones, toilets or door handles.

However, it has not been possible to cultivate the virus in the laboratory on the basis of these swabs. "This means that we have detected the RNA (or ribonucleic acid, which carries the virus’s genetic information) of 'dead' viruses," Streeck said.

According to his previous research results, he believes "that a door handle can only be infectious if someone has actually coughed in their hand and then reached for it.

"After that, you have to reach for the door handle yourself and touch your face," he said. It is not yet possible to say how long the virus can remain on a door handle because not enough studies have been carried out.

Streeck added: "We were in a household where many highly infectious people lived, and yet we did not manage to detect a living virus from any surface."

He said these early research results would now be further developed in the current study in Heinsberg.

Virologist Christian Drosten of Berlin's Charité hospital had also previously pointed out in an NDR podcast that coronaviruses are extremely sensitive to drying out. They are also transmitted by droplet infection and must be inhaled.

Therefore, according to the virologist, there is little chance of transmission by contact with notes or coins, for example."

Source: https://www.thelocal.de/20200402/ho...ers-on-coronavirus-in-countrys-worst-hit-spot



Compare that to this study on virus spread from 2014.

https://www.livescience.com/47730-virus-spread-offices.html

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

So you are ADMITTING you have absolutely nothing to back up your 13k/39k claim here?

https://nebraska.forums.rivals.com/threads/covid-8-0-no-name-calling.265402/page-15#post-5922606

“And again, I'll mention that each hospital gets 13 grand from the feds for each wuhan admittance,39 grand if intubated.”

No, just agreeing your links that agree with my statement that that's agreeable.

My link is a quote from a state representative, thus the rounding up from 12 grand to thirteen.

 

[MOHUSKER]

More retconning.
If a guy thats showing symptoms of wuhan gets chloroquine, where its forbidden in some states here?
Quit retconning

Where/what am I retconning? You are the one throwing out baseless claims as fact, trying to use outdated articles that were updated by the original author and disproven by others of a ban, then you shifted to saying prior prescriptions were outlawed, again disproven. Then you sensationally claimed you’re better off to get COVID-19 in Botswana because you could get a drug that you can get anywhere is the US when prescribed (not even needing to be administered) in an inpatient setting.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

Some interesting stuff starting to come out about COVID-19 spread.


"So far, no transmission of the virus in supermarkets, restaurants or hairdressers has been proven," explained Bonn virologist Hendrik Streeck on the ZDF Markus Lanz talk show.

Instead, the major outbreaks have been the result of close get-togethers over a longer period of time, he said.

That's demonstrated in, for example, outbreaks that have stemmed from après-ski parties in Ischgl, at football matches in Bergamo or at carnival celebrations in the municipality of Gangelt in the Heinsberg district of North Rhine-Westphalia."

"No evidence of live viruses on surfaces

Initial surveys and investigations in homes in Heinsberg have already provided some indications of how the virus works.

Streeck, who is director of the Institute of Virology at Bonn University, said he was able to detect coronavirus by swabbing remote controls, washbasins, mobile phones, toilets or door handles.

However, it has not been possible to cultivate the virus in the laboratory on the basis of these swabs. "This means that we have detected the RNA (or ribonucleic acid, which carries the virus’s genetic information) of 'dead' viruses," Streeck said.

According to his previous research results, he believes "that a door handle can only be infectious if someone has actually coughed in their hand and then reached for it.

"After that, you have to reach for the door handle yourself and touch your face," he said. It is not yet possible to say how long the virus can remain on a door handle because not enough studies have been carried out.

Streeck added: "We were in a household where many highly infectious people lived, and yet we did not manage to detect a living virus from any surface."

He said these early research results would now be further developed in the current study in Heinsberg.

Virologist Christian Drosten of Berlin's Charité hospital had also previously pointed out in an NDR podcast that coronaviruses are extremely sensitive to drying out. They are also transmitted by droplet infection and must be inhaled.

Therefore, according to the virologist, there is little chance of transmission by contact with notes or coins, for example."

Source: https://www.thelocal.de/20200402/ho...ers-on-coronavirus-in-countrys-worst-hit-spot



Compare that to this study on virus spread from 2014.

https://www.livescience.com/47730-virus-spread-offices.html

This reminds me of the story coming out of UNMC on their findings ,of the walls and vent systems.
Anyone have followups?
They'd stated they'd found particles, didn't say any live active virus though, somewhat cryptic, maybe too early for full findings?

 

[MOHUSKER]

No, just agreeing your links that agree with my statement that that's agreeable.

My link is a quote from a state representative, thus the rounding up from 12 grand to thirteen.

Ah, but Trump says if we don’t name our sources they’re fake!

 

[Nebraska_Reality]

So to you guys who for some reason disagree with a lot of Doctors about Hydroxychloroquine lets say you get Covid but are not put in the hospital. Your Dr advises you that the drug is mostly safe and there is a lot of information stating it works on Covid but there has not been time enough for proper trials.

What do you do take it or do you deny the prescription because you hate Trump

I'd take anything if it came from my doctor being able to back it up with good information.

We have people in this country that would listen to Trump over their doctors. That's a problem.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

Where/what am I retconning? You are the one throwing out baseless claims as fact, trying to use outdated articles that were updated by the original author and disproven by others of a ban, then you shifted to saying prior prescriptions were outlawed, again disproven. Then you sensationally claimed you’re better off to get COVID-19 in Botswana because you could get a drug that you can get anywhere is the US when prescribed (not even needing to be administered) in an inpatient setting.

Every time I say something, factual history, you add words and motive, creating a different outcome tonsuit you.
Otherwise, retconning

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

I'd take anything if it came from my doctor being able to back it up with good information.

We have people in this country that would swallow rat poison to cure C19 as long as it came from Trump.

Actually, those folks in nevada? The ones who ate fish tank cleaner?
They were heavy contributors to the dems

 

[DudznSudz]

I don't understand what the controversy is here, I guess. The president is a known liar with an observable disorder. Doctors and researchers know what they are talking about. Why is this hard to understand?

 

[MOHUSKER]

Some interesting stuff starting to come out about COVID-19 spread.


"So far, no transmission of the virus in supermarkets, restaurants or hairdressers has been proven," explained Bonn virologist Hendrik Streeck on the ZDF Markus Lanz talk

A “market”, granted not a supermarket is alleged to be the whole start of this thing.

Now these numbers aren’t statistically significant at all...but https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/04/06/supermarket-workers-deaths-coronavirus-/

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

A “market”, granted not a supermarket is alleged to be the whole start of this thing.

Now these numbers aren’t statistically significant at all...but https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/04/06/supermarket-workers-deaths-coronavirus-/

Where's the there there, in this story?
What were their habits, ay work? Did their workplaces monitor them?
What were their habits outside of work?
What were their stay safe habits?

Four people, much much less info than say, a chloroquine test study.

Did any of them get put on chloroquine before hospital?

 

[yort2000]

A “market”, granted not a supermarket is alleged to be the whole start of this thing.

Now these numbers aren’t statistically significant at all...but https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/04/06/supermarket-workers-deaths-coronavirus-/

It's not drying up at a wet market, if that is the original source.


Just because they work at a supermarket doesn't mean they were infected there.

 

[redwine65]

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

It's not drying up at a wet market, if that is the original source.


Just because they work at a supermarket doesn't mean they were infected there.

Sounds like scare story to me. Shock awaaaaay

 

[MOHUSKER]

Sounds like scare story to me. Shock awaaaaay

But nobody watches right? And online media is pointless right? So why are you so scared of the media beyond your Lord and Savior Fox News?

 

[MOHUSKER]

Moving on...like several of us have said for a few days now.

https://money.yahoo.com/fauci-says-rolling-reentry-us-162516528.html

Rather than flipping a switch to reopen the entire country, Fauci said a gradual process will be required based on the status of the pandemic in various parts of the U.S. and the availability of rapid, widespread testing. Once the number of people who are seriously ill sharply declines, officials can begin to “think about a gradual reentry of some sort of normality, some rolling reentry," Fauci said.

In some places, he said, that might occur as soon as May. “We are hoping that, at the end of the month, we could look around and say, OK, is there any element here that we can safely and cautiously start pulling back on? If so, do it. If not, then just continue to hunker down," Fauci said.

Whenever restrictions ease, Fauci said, “we know that there will be people who will be getting infected. I mean, that is just reality. “

 

[DudznSudz]

But nobody watches right? And online media is pointless right? So why are you so scared of the media beyond your Lord and Savior Fox News?

Because right wing media has to sell that lie, that it is somehow essential. It isn't. In fact, it's a serious liability. There is no "MSM" boogeyman, there is just the news. Unfortunately, there are a lot of "opinion" shows and outlets out there, and generally speaking those should be more or less ignored unless you specifically want to dive into it.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

But nobody watches right? And online media is pointless right? So why are you so scared of the media beyond your Lord and Savior Fox News?

They're important because they're there.
Only watch a little, their news is mostly decent.

I have only one Lord, and only one Savior.
I proudly exclaim this.

 

[DudznSudz]

Moving on...like several of us have said for a few days now.

https://money.yahoo.com/fauci-says-rolling-reentry-us-162516528.html

Rather than flipping a switch to reopen the entire country, Fauci said a gradual process will be required based on the status of the pandemic in various parts of the U.S. and the availability of rapid, widespread testing. Once the number of people who are seriously ill sharply declines, officials can begin to “think about a gradual reentry of some sort of normality, some rolling reentry," Fauci said.

In some places, he said, that might occur as soon as May. “We are hoping that, at the end of the month, we could look around and say, OK, is there any element here that we can safely and cautiously start pulling back on? If so, do it. If not, then just continue to hunker down," Fauci said.

Whenever restrictions ease, Fauci said, “we know that there will be people who will be getting infected. I mean, that is just reality. “

That makes sense to me. You just have to be careful about travel. And we need widespread, readily available testing to be able to track this stuff and pounce on anything like an outbreak quickly.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

Moving on...like several of us have said for a few days now.

https://money.yahoo.com/fauci-says-rolling-reentry-us-162516528.html

Rather than flipping a switch to reopen the entire country, Fauci said a gradual process will be required based on the status of the pandemic in various parts of the U.S. and the availability of rapid, widespread testing. Once the number of people who are seriously ill sharply declines, officials can begin to “think about a gradual reentry of some sort of normality, some rolling reentry," Fauci said.

In some places, he said, that might occur as soon as May. “We are hoping that, at the end of the month, we could look around and say, OK, is there any element here that we can safely and cautiously start pulling back on? If so, do it. If not, then just continue to hunker down," Fauci said.

Whenever restrictions ease, Fauci said, “we know that there will be people who will be getting infected. I mean, that is just reality. “

Glad Faucis finally caught up some, Ive been saying this for a week or more.
Good to see someone like him seeing the need. And so soon too.

 

[John_J_Rambo_rivals315142]

dr fauci is a blowhard.

 

[NorthwoodHusker]

dr fauci is a blowhard.

He's misdiagnosed

 

[yort2000]

One thing I found interesting from the Germany article is that the Chinese person that brought the virus to Germany only infected her colleagues and not other people in the hotel where she was staying.

"He said Germany's patient zero had only infected her colleagues and not other guests or diners at the hotel she had been staying at."

Source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8182767/Scientist-casts-doubt-coronavirus-spread.html


Whereas in the 2014 virus study:

"In hotels, the virus traveled between rooms as workers cleaned the rooms. "If you hear someone coughing in the room next door, the virus they have may be in your room the next night," Gerba wrote in an email to Live Science."


Source: https://www.livescience.com/47730-virus-spread-offices.html

 

[John_J_Rambo_rivals315142]

Doctors and researchers know what they are talking about

this must be why all of the projections have been so accurate!