Palm on unsportmanslike

inWV

All-Conference
Sep 22, 2007
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Said NU would not get the number of quality wins they need to get in, would basically need to win the tourney. Said win over Michigan would not be enough. Just saw Mich as a 6 seed. So in Jerry's mind, NU beating a putative 6 seed team by 20, then beating them again in the B1G tourney ain't enough.
 

dinglefritz

Heisman
Jan 14, 2011
51,506
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Said NU would not get the number of quality wins they need to get in, would basically need to win the tourney. Said win over Michigan would not be enough. Just saw Mich as a 6 seed. So in Jerry's mind, NU beating a putative 6 seed team by 20, then beating them again in the B1G tourney ain't enough.
That's just stupid. Does he really think they would keep out a B1G team with TWO wins over a quadrant 1 team and Penn State who finished in the top 4 of the league AND had 23 wins? He's an idiot. Maybe IF we lose to PSU but man that's just ridiculous. These guys need to get off their knees for the SEC and the Big 12.
 

NorthWillRiseAgain

All-Conference
Dec 14, 2004
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That's just stupid. Does he really think they would keep out a B1G team with TWO wins over a quadrant 1 team and Penn State who finished in the top 4 of the league AND had 23 wins? He's an idiot. Maybe IF we lose to PSU but man that's just ridiculous. These guys need to get off their knees for the SEC and the Big 12.
You can go 6-25 apparently as long as your 6 wins are quad 1s.
 

JohnRossEwing

All-American
Jul 4, 2013
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They do say that conference record doesn't matter and neither does where you finish...I don't totally get that but if that is true I guess what he is saying makes sense.
 

Redscarlet

Heisman
Jun 17, 2001
33,033
11,035
113
So the real 4th best team in the conference on the floor doesn't get it but the 5th does.

Good thing Palm isn't on the committee.
 

NorthWillRiseAgain

All-Conference
Dec 14, 2004
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They do say that conference record doesn't matter and neither does where you finish...I don't totally get that but if that is true I guess what he is saying makes sense.
it matters who you beat, solely based on RPI? God forbid you use a variety of methods.
 

NorthWillRiseAgain

All-Conference
Dec 14, 2004
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So we could basically beat Michigan and Michigan State to get into the finals and still be left out? Lol......what a moron. That would be the biggest screwjob ever!
24-10(13-5) finished 8-2 with 3 quad 1 wins. “Naw, but look at this Big 12!” So competitive that Kansas has won it for ten straight decades.
 

jlb321_rivals110621

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Aug 8, 2014
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probably need 3 more wins to at least have a chance

our SOS is killing us - we have the worst SOS in the BIG which happens to be worst rated major conference
there are only 2 teams in a power conference with a worse SOS - one of them Miss. State has an RPI of 61
Our RPI is 60 - South Dakota St has an RPI of 63

there are many reasons not to like the RPI but the NCAA, in part, developed the index and relies on it

Lunardi has Penn State ahead of us on the bubble

//www.landof10.com/big-ten/penn-state-nebraska-basketball-bracketology-ncaa-tournament
 
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schuele

All-American
Apr 17, 2005
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Lunardi has Penn State ahead of us on the bubble

//www.landof10.com/big-ten/penn-state-nebraska-basketball-bracketology-ncaa-tournament

I get why it's an uphill climb for Nebraska, but how is Penn State even in the conversation with an RPI of 85?
 
Aug 18, 2016
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3 games, Michigan twice and Penn St isn’t what the committee will do. Even if you take the Minnesota game out of the equation, Nebraska is 18-1 against teams ranked higher than 101. No matter how you slice it, when 19 of you opponents are in quadrants 3 and 4 and you are only 2-8 against quadrants 1 and 2, it will be tough to get a berth. The resume right now is very similar to a mid or low major who lost in their conference tournament and are looking for an at large berth. Example-

Vermont is 1-5 against the top 100 and 21-1 against 101+.
 

jlb321_rivals110621

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I get why it's an uphill climb for Nebraska, but how is Penn State even in the conversation with an RPI of 85?

there are 2 other indices that were developed due to perceived shortcomings of the RPI

ESPNs BPI -- Nebraska 61 -- PSU 27
Kenpom Nebraska 55 -- PSU 27

I don't know where I have read this before but I believe in the past, teams that have gotten an NCAA birth with a poorer RPI have scored better by those systems -
 
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jlb321_rivals110621

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Harry Caray

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Feb 28, 2002
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linked is composite of over a 100 different computer system rankings using a "variety of methods" and we don't really score any better than in the RPI - when you look at all of these we are 17 spots behind Penn State at the time of the last update

https://www.masseyratings.com/cb/compare.htm

Those rankings have us 9 spots lower than Maryland, who we beat and who hasn't beaten anybody good this year. They also have us lower than Louisiana and Loyola-Chicago, does anybody really think those teams are better than the 4th place team in the Big Ten?
 

Cornicator

Hall of Famer
Feb 27, 2009
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I tend to think Nebraska was going to be in with a 23-8 and 14-4 finish, regardless of what they did in the Big Ten tourney. So many bubble teams have "black eyes and blemishes" in the form of bad losses. Up until that Illinois loss, Nebraska had avoided the dreaded "bad loss." That's clearly out the window now.

Penn State has some excellent wins over Ohio State. If they beat the Huskers, they will get another Quad win on the road. But they're likely going to miss the tourney because of their terrible losses to teams like Rider at home. They lost at home to a bad Wisconsin team, and they also dropped a game at Minnesota. Those all are killer to the resume.

But, back to Palm... assuming the Huskers went 9-4 in the NON con, like they did. He's basically saying they wouldn't have had the proper resume with a 15-3 league record and 24-7 finish. Let that sink in for a second....
 
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A

anon_umk0ifu6vj6zi

Guest
probably need 3 more wins to at least have a chance

our SOS is killing us - we have the worst SOS in the BIG which happens to be worst rated major conference
there are only 2 teams in a power conference with a worse SOS - one of them Miss. State has an RPI of 61
Our RPI is 60 - South Dakota St has an RPI of 63

there are many reasons not to like the RPI but the NCAA, in part, developed the index and relies on it

Lunardi has Penn State ahead of us on the bubble

//www.landof10.com/big-ten/penn-state-nebraska-basketball-bracketology-ncaa-tournament
Agree. Had we simply not played Deleware State, a win Sunday would likely be enough
 

jlb321_rivals110621

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Those rankings have us 9 spots lower than Maryland, who we beat and who hasn't beaten anybody good this year. They also have us lower than Louisiana and Loyola-Chicago, does anybody really think those teams are better than the 4th place team in the Big Ten?

I agree with you. I am not arguing their validity just posting for informational purposes.

If we beat PSU and Michigan my hope is we are in
 

NorthWillRiseAgain

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I agree with you. I am not arguing their validity just posting for informational purposes.

If we beat PSU and Michigan my hope is we are in
It’ll be close, I am not sure if the BIG tournament being done so early will lock us in, or help them forget about NU though.
 

ridge22

Junior
Oct 19, 2004
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Okay, what am I missing here with Syracuse being one of the last 4 in? The have some pretty ugly losses to 3 of the bottom 4 in the ACC.
 

nudan92

Senior
Nov 24, 2008
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I'm curious if they give any credence at all to close losses. We lost on a last second shot to KU who is projected as a 1 seed. Oklahoma is apparently a lock because of those early 6 Q1 wins when nobody knew how to contain Trae Young, but they've been getting blasted lately. KU destroyed them. Is a loss by 30 the same as a loss by 1?
 

Redscarlet

Heisman
Jun 17, 2001
33,033
11,035
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I'm curious if they give any credence at all to close losses. We lost on a last second shot to KU who is projected as a 1 seed. Oklahoma is apparently a lock because of those early 6 Q1 wins when nobody knew how to contain Trae Young, but they've been getting blasted lately. KU destroyed them. Is a loss by 30 the same as a loss by 1?

The RPI doesn’t factor into those facts unfortunately.
 

huskerbaseball13

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Jul 30, 2003
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Palm is ranked as one of the worst bracketologist out there. It's very apparent that he is placing an extreme amount of importance on tier 1 ones. Obviously, this doesn't help us but if you listen to the head of the selection committee tier 1 is not the end all be all. At the end of the day, if we win the next two I just really don't see us being left out.
 

nudan92

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Nov 24, 2008
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Palm is ranked as one of the worst bracketologist out there. It's very apparent that he is placing an extreme amount of importance on tier 1 ones. Obviously, this doesn't help us but if you listen to the head of the selection committee tier 1 is not the end all be all. At the end of the day, if we win the next two I just really don't see us being left out.

If we are left out there will be a new precedent set. No Big Ten team with at least 12 conference wins and 20 overall wins has ever been left out. I'd also be curious as the the last time the 4th place team in the Big Ten regular standings was left out.
 
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NorthWillRiseAgain

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Dec 14, 2004
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Palm is ranked as one of the worst bracketologist out there. It's very apparent that he is placing an extreme amount of importance on tier 1 ones. Obviously, this doesn't help us but if you listen to the head of the selection committee tier 1 is not the end all be all. At the end of the day, if we win the next two I just really don't see us being left out.
Palm and Lunardi are the famous, but usually toward the bottom.

Palm is essentially saying 3-6 vs. quad 1, 24-10, with a 35 RPI not being good enough is laughable. (That’s saying we would beat PSU, Mich, & MSU, but lose to Purdue)
 

saluno22

All-Conference
Mar 1, 2006
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Not everyone plays the same conference schedule, therefore not all conference records and standings are created equal
Yep.

Depending on how you look at it, it's about who you don't play (boosting record) or who you do play (building a resume). With mega conferences, the conference name means even less for those reasons.

We experience this in every sport. In football, it's crossovers to determine who wins divisions. Basketball it's who you play twice vs. once (and for once, where) that dictates seeding, but that means poorer resume for teams like Nebraska this year. Baseball it's which 8 of 12 other teams you play and where. All have huge impacts on the complexion of the conference standings.
 

saluno22

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Mar 1, 2006
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Would be interesting to see a World Cup-style selection process used. Take previous NCAA tournament performance (say last 5 years or last 10 years), calculate each conference's RPI based on tournament performances (just like the regular season's RPI is calculated: part your record in the tournament, two parts opponents' records, part opponents' opponents' record (or maybe eliminate this tier because there is a much more limited number of teams in the dance)), weight more recent seasons greater, and then assign a number of bids to the next NCAA tournament based on strength of performance, with minimum one per conference. That's the number of teams that qualify for the NCAA tournament from each conference, and the conference decides how it is determined who fills those slots: conference tournament champion, conference tournament runner-up, regular season standings, etc. (would be interesting to see how conference scheduling would be altered). Then use the highest "partial bids" (or leftovers) to determine "play-in" game teams. Leads to a lot less conjecture and less fluidity of evaluation criteria.

Like others have said, "quad 1" became something I had never heard of to an every-day phrase this year, and it's doubling down on something already in the RPI. If they're going to do that, just go full BCS and add a "quality wins" bonus to the RPI calculation and don't bother with the selection committee.
 

o_h3

Senior
Oct 6, 2001
772
433
1
Did Palm think Crayton was in? That team is a trainwreck since the loss of Krampelj. Reminds me a lot of last year when they lost Watson. One and done if they do make it in with no defense and rebounding.
 

Redscarlet

Heisman
Jun 17, 2001
33,033
11,035
113
Did Palm think Crayton was in? That team is a trainwreck since the loss of Krampelj. Reminds me a lot of last year when they lost Watson. One and done if they do make it in with no defense and rebounding.

They were better last year at this time with Patton.
 

Huskercigar

Senior
Jul 16, 2017
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I tend to think Nebraska was going to be in with a 23-8 and 14-4 finish, regardless of what they did in the Big Ten tourney. So many bubble teams have "black eyes and blemishes" in the form of bad losses. Up until that Illinois loss, Nebraska had avoided the dreaded "bad loss." That's clearly out the window now.

Penn State has some excellent wins over Ohio State. If they beat the Huskers, they will get another Quad win on the road. But they're likely going to miss the tourney because of their terrible losses to teams like Rider at home. They lost at home to a bad Wisconsin team, and they also dropped a game at Minnesota. Those all are killer to the resume.

But, back to Palm... assuming the Huskers went 9-4 in the NON con, like they did. He's basically saying they wouldn't have had the proper resume with a 15-3 league record and 24-7 finish. Let that sink in for a second....
As was mentioned......15-3 in conference record doesn't mean anything if you didn't beat many teams. Only one of those wins is against a team going to the tournament. They don't care what place we finished in the conference. They only care about the quality of success we had.
 

Cornicator

Hall of Famer
Feb 27, 2009
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As was mentioned......15-3 in conference record doesn't mean anything if you didn't beat many teams. Only one of those wins is against a team going to the tournament. They don't care what place we finished in the conference. They only care about the quality of success we had.

Yes they do. Jerry Palm doesn't care, but Jerry Palm isn't on the committee.
 

saluno22

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Mar 1, 2006
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As was mentioned......15-3 in conference record doesn't mean anything if you didn't beat many teams. Only one of those wins is against a team going to the tournament. They don't care what place we finished in the conference. They only care about the quality of success we had.
Yes they do. Jerry Palm doesn't care, but Jerry Palm isn't on the committee.
To add on to this, there is a perpetual debate between "Which teams deserve to be in the tournament" (and how to quantify "deserve") versus "Which teams are most likely to be successful in the tournament". Is there a balance to be had? Do you outright say "we're taking so many from this criteria and so many from that criteria"? Then how do you seed them?

I know the heartburn for me every year in college sports is the fluidity of the selection criteria. Like others (and myself) have said, "Quadrant 1" has gone from a non-existent term to seemingly most important criteria.