Over-signing by some teams.

[BHeinDaHuskers]

please forgive me if I heard wrong. tOSU with what they signed today is thought to be over the 85 limit by 12-15. How in the heck will they be able to get at the 85 limit if half their junior class doesn't go pro?

Someone told me they will force kids who are unproductive to take a medical scholarship. Basicly, forcing them out of football. I'm sorry but as a parent if I knew a university was forcing kids to take a medical scholarship when nothing is wrong with them why would I want to send my kid there?

 

[huskerfan1414]

How can they force a medical scholly? Take a sledge and go around breakin knees?

 

[NECoach31BB]

Some of those schools like Ohio State just Project X number of kids every year to declare early for the draft and free up the scholarship. Other schools probably including schools like Ohio State also tell kids that they can push through they're not being overly productive to move on or well will help you by just not making life a lot of fun for you but it's really your decision. Even on scholarship if the sport you're playing is no fun and you're not getting playing time it's difficult to be in school and be the student-athlete that you're there supposed to be

 

[redfanusa]

The Big Ten has over-signing rules, and all members are supposed to offer four-year scholarships. As you can see, the elite teams in the conference aren't playing by those rules. Because the rules are freaking idiotic. The $EC teams regularly over-sign by a dozen or more recruits, accounting for those who won't qualify, and quickly turning over dead weight within the program.

If Nebraska is ever going to return to glory, they need to do the same thing. Why the Big Ten continuously ties its members' hands behind their backs is beyond me.

 

[barney44]

The Big Ten has over-signing rules, and all members are supposed to offer four-year scholarships. As you can see, the elite teams in the conference aren't playing by those rules. Because the rules are freaking idiotic. The $EC teams regularly over-sign by a dozen or more recruits, accounting for those who won't qualify, and quickly turning over dead weight within the program.

If Nebraska is ever going to return to glory, they need to do the same thing. Why the Big Ten continuously ties its members' hands behind their backs is beyond me.

I thought the SEC did something with over signing rules a couple of years ago?

 

[tpmcg_rivals137159]

How can they force a medical scholly? Take a sledge and go around breakin knees?

scary thing is it could be ruthless, for sure...

 

[HuskerLLM]

I thought the SEC did something with over signing rules a couple of years ago?

They did

 

[TwinsRRUs_rivals79748]

Here are there numbers of recruits that signed each year at OSU:
2013 - 24
2014 - 23
2015 - 27
2016 - 25
2017 - 21
Total of 120 in 5 years, or 96 in the last 4 classes.

Looking at their seniors, I found 3 of them that are not on the 3 deep depth chart, although they played. The only one that didn't play much was Goins, who "played in 12 of 13 games for the Buckeyes, missing only the Indiana game … he played on special teams and had personal bests of 11 plays against both Nebraska and Maryland."

Here are some players that signed with OSU in 2014, but are not on the 2017 roster:
Marshon Lattimore - NFL
Raekwon McMillan - NFL
Noah Brown - NFL
Curtis Samuel - NFL
Malik Hooker - NFL
Stephen Collier - Asked to Leave (Link)
Kyle Berger - "Medically Disqualified" (Link)
Darius Slade - Transferred to ASU
Kyle Trout - Transferred to Cincinnati
Marcelys Jones - Left team after 1 year and was in Meyer's doghouse, had issues

Looking at their 12 juniors, ALL of them are on the 2-deep roster. Where did the rest of them go?!?

Here are some players that signed with OSU in 2015, but are not on the 2017 roster:

Mirko Jurkovic Jr - Academic Issue, Did not enroll at OSU
Torrance Gibson - Academic issues/Suspended, Transferred, now a JUCO
Josh Norwood - Too many scholarships, needed to let someone go (Link)
Alex Stump - Too many scholarships, needed to let someone go (Link)
Grant Schmidt - Too many scholarships, needed to let someone go (Link)
Jamel Dean - "Injury" and Over-signed and forced out at OSU (Link)
Eric Glover-Williams - Couldn't crack the depth chart, forced out (Link)

After doing the research to find out the information above, IMO, (per the links above) it is safe to say that if you are

• not on the depth chart to contribute when the game matters
• you are injured often, meaning you aren't helping the team win
• your position is overfilled and you are the odd man out

then you will be asked to leave. If you love the Buckeyes too much to leave and are willing to give up playing football, then you will find another spot in the program to help.

OSU/Urban Meyer (and other schools that do this) will not come out and say that they are telling kids that they must leave/transfer. They aren't stupid. They are smart in a way that they push the envelope and find ways to over-sign and keep the best kids that give them a chance to win and win now. This is how the "best" teams win championships in today's college football world.

I spent a lot of time tonight looking all of this up (what a waste of time for something we were all pretty sure was going on anyways), but if I wasn't convinced before that these things happened at the "big name" schools that compete for championships, I sure as heck am convinced of it now.

 

[1711 Cardiff]

Finally interested in oversigning?

 

[BHeinDaHuskers]

Here are there numbers of recruits that signed each year at OSU:
2013 - 24
2014 - 23
2015 - 27
2016 - 25
2017 - 21
Total of 120 in 5 years, or 96 in the last 4 classes.

Looking at their seniors, I found 3 of them that are not on the 3 deep depth chart, although they played. The only one that didn't play much was Goins, who "played in 12 of 13 games for the Buckeyes, missing only the Indiana game … he played on special teams and had personal bests of 11 plays against both Nebraska and Maryland."

Here are some players that signed with OSU in 2014, but are not on the 2017 roster:
Marshon Lattimore - NFL
Raekwon McMillan - NFL
Noah Brown - NFL
Curtis Samuel - NFL
Malik Hooker - NFL
Stephen Collier - Asked to Leave (Link)
Kyle Berger - "Medically Disqualified" (Link)
Darius Slade - Transferred to ASU
Kyle Trout - Transferred to Cincinnati
Marcelys Jones - Left team after 1 year and was in Meyer's doghouse, had issues

Looking at their 12 juniors, ALL of them are on the 2-deep roster. Where did the rest of them go?!?

Here are some players that signed with OSU in 2015, but are not on the 2017 roster:

Mirko Jurkovic Jr - Academic Issue, Did not enroll at OSU
Torrance Gibson - Academic issues/Suspended, Transferred, now a JUCO
Josh Norwood - Too many scholarships, needed to let someone go (Link)
Alex Stump - Too many scholarships, needed to let someone go (Link)
Grant Schmidt - Too many scholarships, needed to let someone go (Link)
Jamel Dean - "Injury" and Over-signed and forced out at OSU (Link)
Eric Glover-Williams - Couldn't crack the depth chart, forced out (Link)

After doing the research to find out the information above, IMO, (per the links above) it is safe to say that if you are

• not on the depth chart to contribute when the game matters
• you are injured often, meaning you aren't helping the team win
• your position is overfilled and you are the odd man out

then you will be asked to leave. If you love the Buckeyes too much to leave and are willing to give up playing football, then you will find another spot in the program to help.

OSU/Urban Meyer (and other schools that do this) will not come out and say that they are telling kids that they must leave/transfer. They aren't stupid. They are smart in a way that they push the envelope and find ways to over-sign and keep the best kids that give them a chance to win and win now. This is how the "best" teams win championships in today's college football world.

I spent a lot of time tonight looking all of this up (what a waste of time for something we were all pretty sure was going on anyways), but if I wasn't convinced before that these things happened at the "big name" schools that compete for championships, I sure as heck am convinced of it now.

THANK YOU!!

 

[dollerroller]

How can they force a medical scholly? Take a sledge and go around breakin knees?

Saban was the most notorious for this. The number of medical schollies Bama gave out was some astronomical amount more than anyone else.

 

[oldjar07]

Here are there numbers of recruits that signed each year at OSU:
2013 - 24
2014 - 23
2015 - 27
2016 - 25
2017 - 21
Total of 120 in 5 years, or 96 in the last 4 classes.

Looking at their seniors, I found 3 of them that are not on the 3 deep depth chart, although they played. The only one that didn't play much was Goins, who "played in 12 of 13 games for the Buckeyes, missing only the Indiana game … he played on special teams and had personal bests of 11 plays against both Nebraska and Maryland."

Here are some players that signed with OSU in 2014, but are not on the 2017 roster:
Marshon Lattimore - NFL
Raekwon McMillan - NFL
Noah Brown - NFL
Curtis Samuel - NFL
Malik Hooker - NFL
Stephen Collier - Asked to Leave (Link)
Kyle Berger - "Medically Disqualified" (Link)
Darius Slade - Transferred to ASU
Kyle Trout - Transferred to Cincinnati
Marcelys Jones - Left team after 1 year and was in Meyer's doghouse, had issues

Looking at their 12 juniors, ALL of them are on the 2-deep roster. Where did the rest of them go?!?

Here are some players that signed with OSU in 2015, but are not on the 2017 roster:

Mirko Jurkovic Jr - Academic Issue, Did not enroll at OSU
Torrance Gibson - Academic issues/Suspended, Transferred, now a JUCO
Josh Norwood - Too many scholarships, needed to let someone go (Link)
Alex Stump - Too many scholarships, needed to let someone go (Link)
Grant Schmidt - Too many scholarships, needed to let someone go (Link)
Jamel Dean - "Injury" and Over-signed and forced out at OSU (Link)
Eric Glover-Williams - Couldn't crack the depth chart, forced out (Link)

After doing the research to find out the information above, IMO, (per the links above) it is safe to say that if you are

• not on the depth chart to contribute when the game matters
• you are injured often, meaning you aren't helping the team win
• your position is overfilled and you are the odd man out

then you will be asked to leave. If you love the Buckeyes too much to leave and are willing to give up playing football, then you will find another spot in the program to help.

OSU/Urban Meyer (and other schools that do this) will not come out and say that they are telling kids that they must leave/transfer. They aren't stupid. They are smart in a way that they push the envelope and find ways to over-sign and keep the best kids that give them a chance to win and win now. This is how the "best" teams win championships in today's college football world.

I spent a lot of time tonight looking all of this up (what a waste of time for something we were all pretty sure was going on anyways), but if I wasn't convinced before that these things happened at the "big name" schools that compete for championships, I sure as heck am convinced of it now.

They could be letting a lot of good players go as well. Late developers who turn into very good players their junior and senior years. Plus losing your best players early to the NFL draft every year takes a tremendous toll on continuity of the program. You have to basically rebuild your program every year. A guy who doesn't have as much NFL talent, but is a great college player and able to contribute all 4 years is more valuable than a talented guy who leaves to the NFL after 2 or 3 years. Oversigning is not the panacea some make it out to be, and teams have been very successful using the counterpart strategy of redshirting all your freshman, and keeping guys in the program until they reach their senior year.

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

When did the B1G institute the 4 year scholarship? I thought it was beginning with the 2015 class. May have been 2014 class. Regardless, kids on scholarship prior to that were on 1 year scholarships that had to be renewed annually. So a kid that signed in 2013 wasn’t signing a 4 year scholarship. Him being cycled out was easier to do. What you won’t typically find on tOSU roster is 5th year seniors who don’t, or haven't, contributed. Guys like Adam Taylor at Nebraska. Taylor would have been processed after his 4th year at OSU and that scholarship would have been used on a freshman and not a 5th year non contributing senior.

 

[B1G RED RULES]

please forgive me if I heard wrong. tOSU with what they signed today is thought to be over the 85 limit by 12-15. How in the heck will they be able to get at the 85 limit if half their junior class doesn't go pro?

Someone told me they will force kids who are unproductive to take a medical scholarship. Basicly, forcing them out of football. I'm sorry but as a parent if I knew a university was forcing kids to take a medical scholarship when nothing is wrong with them why would I want to send my kid there?

I know I am pretty much alone on this thought, but I have never understood why somebody should get a guaranteed four year scholarship based upon their work in high school. We have had many players who have come in highly regarded that turned out to be busts. Scholastic scholarships have requirements that you maintain a certain grade point in order to keep receiving the benefit - which I completely agree with. Athletic scholarships have nothing like that.

 

[SoFL Husker]

The Big Ten has over-signing rules, and all members are supposed to offer four-year scholarships. As you can see, the elite teams in the conference aren't playing by those rules. Because the rules are freaking idiotic. The $EC teams regularly over-sign by a dozen or more recruits, accounting for those who won't qualify, and quickly turning over dead weight within the program.

If Nebraska is ever going to return to glory, they need to do the same thing. Why the Big Ten continuously ties its members' hands behind their backs is beyond me.

 

[davecisar]

Urban Meyer in just 3 years was able to trim his dead weight by using a medical hardship for TWELVE PLAYERS. That is about half of a recruiting class gain in just 3 years. If he averages 4 per year, that is 16 in 4 years- almost a full class for many teams.

Think of the kids NU could have offered early and not slow played if we had 16 more scholarships- Harrison, Ott, Bazata, Fant, Williams etc etc

Im all for Nebraska continuing to be the guys with the white hats in college football. However we have taken it to the ridiculous extreme and makes it nearly impossible to compete with teams like OSU.

Kids who are here on their FIFTH year- have had injury issues and have made little on field contributions as position players like an Adam Taylor or Zack Darlington- should either bow out or take a medical scholarship.

We have taken our level of integrity to Himalaya type heights that make very little logical sense . While it is the right thing to do- honoring a scholarship of a kid who gets hurt. But if he cant get onto the field in 3- 4 years as a position player- time to move on. Medical scholarships- still pays for his education- and if the kid isnt playing- that's what he should be concentrating on- his education.

I see very little evidence that a "family" atmosphere that backs up the kids and honors non contributors scholarships for 4-5 years with no medical hardships has somehow helped develop a super cohesive team that is willing to go out and scrap and kill for each other- while helping us gain a white hat reputation that gives NU a big leg up on others on the recruiting trails.

Aggressive roster management hasn't seemed to hurt the recruiting of teams like Bama, OSU or others. Im not saying we turn into them- what Im saying is be REASONABLE- those who havent been able to contribute, Those players should be thankful for the scholarship and move on

 

[Huskercigar]

I'm not sure we have had the need to over sign in the last 10 years. Most of the time we struggle filling our class with players worth over signing.

 

[davecisar]

I'm not sure we have had the need to over sign in the last 10 years. Most of the time we struggle filling our class with players worth over signing.

To an extent- correct- but not
NU rarely has even the full 85- they do a terrible job of roster management, That is a seperate issue.

BUT there are plenty of kids worth taking a short leap on
Even if it is a Nebraska kid who goes on to make it big at a DI school- or even FCS school
Instead of slow playing them (Phillips, Williams, Bazata,. Fant and Ott say HELLO) and HOARDING scholarships- maybe do something like offer them early. Especially if we have more scholarships to award- IF we were reasonable about roster management.

 

[TwinsRRUs_rivals79748]

Urban Meyer in just 3 years was able to trim his dead weight by using a medical hardship for TWELVE PLAYERS. That is about half of a recruiting class gain in just 3 years. If he averages 4 per year, that is 16 in 4 years- almost a full class for many teams.

Think of the kids NU could have offered early and not slow played if we had 16 more scholarships- Harrison, Ott, Bazata, Fant, Williams etc etc

Im all for Nebraska continuing to be the guys with the white hats in college football. However we have taken it to the ridiculous extreme and makes it nearly impossible to compete with teams like OSU.

Kids who are here on their FIFTH year- have had injury issues and have made little on field contributions as position players like an Adam Taylor or Zack Darlington- should either bow out or take a medical scholarship.

We have taken our level of integrity to Himalaya type heights that make very little logical sense . While it is the right thing to do- honoring a scholarship of a kid who gets hurt. But if he cant get onto the field in 3- 4 years as a position player- time to move on. Medical scholarships- still pays for his education- and if the kid isnt playing- that's what he should be concentrating on- his education.

I see very little evidence that a "family" atmosphere that backs up the kids and honors non contributors scholarships for 4-5 years with no medical hardships has somehow helped develop a super cohesive team that is willing to go out and scrap and kill for each other- while helping us gain a white hat reputation that gives NU a big leg up on others on the recruiting trails.

Aggressive roster management hasn't seemed to hurt the recruiting of teams like Bama, OSU or others. Im not saying we turn into them- what Im saying is be REASONABLE- those who havent been able to contribute, Those players should be thankful for the scholarship and move on

Exactly.

Hard to compete against the best when they run their program that way. At most, you get 4 years to contribute, and if you are not on the 2 deep for your 5th year, time to go bye bye.

That's just what it has come down to nowadays.

 

[Blindcheck]

They could easily rectify this situation...Have 100 total scholarships available at any school (however at any one time only 85 can be active)...

Once a scholarship is offered and accepted, that particular scholarhsip, cannot be offered to anyone again for 4 years..

Having 15 extra scholarships allows for attrition, etc.

 

[BHeinDaHuskers]

Ok, after reading these posts and doing a little digging myself I have come to the conclusion Nebraska needs to join the party. Where do nice guys finish?

If kids take 15 hours per semester (which isn't hard I am taking 18 right now while I have a wife & 3 kids at home and I work & travel 2 hours just to get to my college) If they take 15 hours per semester and most take summer classes (10 hours for summer sessions) so they can do their workouts and weight lift they can get to 120 hours to get their BA or BS in three years. With a redshirt this means by the end of summer of your sophmore year you could have your BA/BS. If you are not on the two deep or top four in a double position (DE, G, T, OLB, MLB, CB, or S) by the time your going into your jr year then I think its time the coaches start sitting a player down and having a deep conversation.

Might be heartless but it seems the top programs are doing this. This way the player gets their education paid for and by the time they are asked to move on they have their BA/BS or very close to where they can finish it with the medical or they can get it somewhere else when they transfer if thats what they want.

Thats JMO, so go ahead and rip me.

 

[MOhusker12]

Is that old? I will confess I didn't dig through a lot of the text, I was looking for pictures because I know if you run the word count over about 100 people on this board don't read. I also can't put up anything from Washington Post because it will be dismissed out of hand. Can we agree CNBC is neutral enough?

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/19/heres-how-the-final-gop-tax-bill-would-hit-your-wallet.html

For the football part, I want NU oversigning and running off non-contributors.

For the tax policy part, I want heavily progressive taxes AND reduced spending. I don't like policy that doesn't pay for itself. And I just hope none of these guys who think they hate socialism so much are CostCo members. Paying up front to be part of a collective that benefits all its members in the form of increased bargaining power and a lower back end cost? DIRTY COMMIES!!!!

Those same people I am sure wish we were still in the Big 12, because they love the Longhorn Network since Texas was only looking out for themselves when it came to a TV deal. Why have members of a conference agree to a TV deal that benefits all members of the organization equally.