Class imploding the final nail in the coffin?

[Doniphan89]

class was the only positive left..

 

[Shermski77]

 

[Headcard]

I think it's been handled fine. Riley & Co. are gone, period. Anybody thinking otherwise hasn't been paying attention.

Just because they are gone does not mean we handled this very well. Why create months of uncertainty and drama when you don't need to? Wouldn't you rather fire Eichorst and Riley quickly after the season and quickly hire their replacements, with only a week or two of uncertainty? That would have given us a much better chance to hold the class together and not have to deal with this circus of rumors day after day.

 

[inWV]

As for recruiting, it is what it is. The two big honchos decided to can the AD early season, the team is under performing wrt to fan expectations (but on par with Vegas expectations) and swapping out the staff is the coin of the Husker realm.
The team could confound things by upping their game a notch. NW, MN and Iowa are all winnable games and that gets the team to 7-5. A retained Riley would then be tasked with shedding Cav and maybe Davis, and then salvaging the recruiting class.

 

[Archie Graham]

Now that Bookie's gone and others to follow...might as well get the ball rolling. Can't see any reason to not start over.

The final nail was hammerred in 09/21/2017.

 

[Toms Wife]

The final nail was hammerred in 09/21/2017.

Complete nonsense. If Riley beats Wisconsin and wins the worst division in football, he still has a job. This is on him and his staff.

A bunch of snowflakes here not wanting the guy at the helm to take any blame.

 

[Archie Graham]

Complete nonsense. If Riley beats Wisconsin and wins the worst division in football, he still has a job. This is on him and his staff.

A bunch of snowflakes here not wanting the guy at the helm to take any blame.

LOL. There are very, very few posters who says Riley deserves no blame. Your comment is laughable.

What's equally laughable is to suggest we weren't headed toward change with the decision to fire SE. You don't change your AD in September, causing a massive ripple affect, unless you are moving forward without him.

 

[Huskercigar]

You got it backward. The final nails in the coffin was losing to Northern Illinois and the AD being fired. The class imploding is a result of having a lame duck staff

I would argue that the performance on the field is more reasoning for the class imploding and for the lame duck staff.

 

[Huskercigar]

Yep, if you bring him back and he is viewed as a lame duck, you sabotage two recruiting classes. We really did not handle this very well, but nothing we can do now, have to move forward.

How is it that we didn't handle it very well. I think it is being handled perfectly given the circumstances that Mike Riley is putting us in.

 

[Toms Wife]

LOL. There are very, very few posters who says Riley deserves no blame. Your comment is laughable.

What's equally laughable is to suggest we weren't headed toward change with the decision to fire SE. You don't change your AD in September, causing a massive ripple affect, unless you are moving forward without him.

You said the firing of Eichorst was "the final nail in the coffin." That's complete hogwash. Surprise...now your narrative changes.

 

[Headcard]

How is it that we didn't handle it very well. I think it is being handled perfectly given the circumstances that Mike Riley is putting us in.

Once again, there was no reason to create months of instability and questions. We could have done this behind the scenes and only had a couple weeks of it. But what is done is done, what is important now is for Moos to get us the right head coach, rally the fan base and support the team through a rebuild.

 

[Toms Wife]

Once again, there was no reason to create months of instability and questions. We could have done this behind the scenes and only had a couple weeks of it. But what is done is done, what is important now is for Moos to get us the right head coach, rally the fan base and support the team through a rebuild.

You cannot have a couple weeks of it! Firing an AD...hiring an AD...firing a coach...and then hiring a football coach all within two weeks is a completely insane way of getting the best people in those positions. I'm not even really sure that is possible.

Plus, if Eichorst was still here do you think everyone would feel that Riley is safe and the football program is stable? Do you think the fans would sit quietly through the Wisky collapse and Ohio State games without questions? Do you think people would feel good about the team after escaping at Purdue? Frankly, the voices of the fans calling for change would be even louder trying to push the administration for change.

 

[Pennsyhusker_rivals246774]

You said the firing of Eichorst was "the final nail in the coffin." That's complete hogwash. Surprise...now your narrative changes.

Of course it was the final nail. As soon as you fire your AD, just days after a humiliating football loss, and without stating publicly that Riley's job is not the issue and that he is safe, you create the national perception that Riley is next in line to be fired. And in modern college football perception is the reality. But nothing was done to forestall that perception, guaranteeing that the narrative would just linger and then build. And once that narrative takes hold it creates a downward vortex of negativity and instability that inevitably destroys recruiting. And then, when the recruiting class starts to implode, various nitwits will use it as further evidence that Riley is a bad coach.
But the sad fact is, bad coach or good coach, it is now too late for him to recover. Because Moos has to know that even if he gives Riley one more year that the perception that his job is very precarious will still be there.

 

[Toms Wife]

Of course it was the final nail. As soon as you fire your AD, just days after a humiliating football loss, and without stating publicly that Riley's job is not the issue and that he is safe, you create the national perception that Riley is next in line to be fired. And in modern college football perception is the reality. But nothing was done to forestall that perception, guaranteeing that the narrative would just linger and then build. And once that narrative takes hold it creates a downward vortex of negativity and instability that inevitably destroys recruiting. And then, when the recruiting class starts to implode, various nitwits will use it as further evidence that Riley is a bad coach.
But the sad fact is, bad coach or good coach, it is now too late for him to recover. Because Moos has to know that even if he gives Riley one more year that the perception that his job is very precarious will still be there.

Do you seriously think there wouldn't be talk of firing Riley if Eichorst was here? Do you think that the narrative of change would somehow be put off given the results of this year? Frankly, it would be far crazier if the fans felt that change wasn't in the works.

 

[Ewooc]

Now that Bookie's gone and others to follow...might as well get the ball rolling. Can't see any reason to not start over.

Yeah zero reason to hold on to him till the end of the year. The ONLY reason I can see keeping him until the end is if Frost is already going to be the guy. They are waiting to announce officially until Frosts season is done. If that isn't the case. Be done with it and lets get a jump on things. Might be able to somewhat save this class.

 

[little a]

I would argue that the performance on the field is more reasoning for the class imploding and for the lame duck staff.

Bingo! Recruits are like women... they like winners

 

[jlb321_rivals110621]

very few high profile recruits are going to sign up to play for a coach whose team and players get nationally embarrassed while playing the role of cupcake for ranked programs and are engaged in epic pillow fights with likes of Purdue.
A new coach with the Nebraska facilities and fan support, etc can sell hope of being competitive on a national stage to recruits.

A 3rd year coach whose team loses to NIU and then comes out on national TV and begs for mercy at the feet of Urban Meyer right from the opening kickoff has lost any ability to recruit about how bright the future is going to be.

 

[otismotis08]

very few high profile recruits are going to sign up to play for a coach whose team and players get nationally embarrassed while playing the role of cupcake for ranked programs and are engaged in epic pillow fights with likes of Purdue.
A new coach with the Nebraska facilities and fan support, etc can sell hope of being competitive on a national stage to recruits.

A 3rd year coach whose team loses to NIU and then comes out on national TV and begs for mercy at the feet of Urban Meyer right from the opening kickoff has lost any ability to recruit about how bright the future is going to be.

Exactly. Until a new HC is named, we are a steaming pile of cow dung.

 

[Huskercigar]

LOL. There are very, very few posters who says Riley deserves no blame. Your comment is laughable.

You are right that very few posters are saying Riley deserves no blame. But there are quite a few posters offering up alternative blame in such a manner that it is implying that it isn't really his fault.

 

[Ewooc]

He didn’t even commit until April. I don’t think what he wrote is what he is trying to say. If he was struggling with the decision in April why commit?

Not sure why he said April. Unless he was trying to play it off that this choice was not a result of the current uncertainty. In reality it is 100%

 

[Huskercigar]

Of course it was the final nail. As soon as you fire your AD, just days after a humiliating football loss, and without stating publicly that Riley's job is not the issue and that he is safe, you create the national perception that Riley is next in line to be fired. And in modern college football perception is the reality. But nothing was done to forestall that perception, guaranteeing that the narrative would just linger and then build. And once that narrative takes hold it creates a downward vortex of negativity and instability that inevitably destroys recruiting. And then, when the recruiting class starts to implode, various nitwits will use it as further evidence that Riley is a bad coach.
But the sad fact is, bad coach or good coach, it is now too late for him to recover. Because Moos has to know that even if he gives Riley one more year that the perception that his job is very precarious will still be there.

Your narrative skips over one major problem. Mike Riley's performance on the field for the last 2 1/2 years. The perception created that Mike Riley was next in line came from that performance. The firing of SE was simply a step in the process all taking place because of that on the field performance.

When you do cause and effect analysis you have to go back to the beginning. If you don't change the original cause......all the other effects will still be there.

 

[TheBeav815]

Some fans really struggle to identify patterns. It's only every year now that recruits like everything they see January - August, then the conference slate rolls around and they realize they don't wanna be coached down for 4-5 years and be the 3rd best team in the West.

I keep trying to tell people but the "fanlier than thou" set only wants to say that it's the fault of fans like me for stating that the emperor has no clothes. This staff doesn't have these guys doing anything well. It's Tanner Lee and a bunch of nothing, even at positions that were supposed strengths.

OL can't block, WRs can't catch, LBs can't stop the run, DBs can't cover. Millions of dollars being spent for that to happen.

Still can't figure out it might be good to try to block a punt once in a while if they're forcing you to fair catch all game. Guess you need those other 10 guys to properly set up a fair catch.

Is the talent level good? No. Are they making the most of what they have? No. Not even close. Can't run the ball on Purdue for God sakes.

 

[Pennsyhusker_rivals246774]

Your narrative skips over one major problem. Mike Riley's performance on the field for the last 2 1/2 years. The perception created that Mike Riley was next in line came from that performance. The firing of SE was simply a step in the process all taking place because of that on the field performance.

When you do cause and effect analysis you have to go back to the beginning. If you don't change the original cause......all the other effects will still be there.

Don't completely disagree here. If Riley were doing well then Eichorst would not have been fired and all would be well. So yeah, Eichorst's demise is directly linked to Riley's failures as a coach. So as soon as Eichorst is fired the "Riley is next" mantra begins and my narrative holds. I am not trying to spin this narrative to exonerate Riley. Ultimately, his losses on the field caused this mess. I think he should go.

But let's assume Bounds and Green don't fire Eichorst. Suppose instead they decide to double down and really publicly support Eichorst/Riley? What if Eichorst, with the full support of Green says "Despite our current growing pains we think Riley has us going where we need to go. Mike Riley is going to be our coach for many more years." There would still be grumbling and rumblings among the fans, but the perception would now be flipped in Riley's favor. It could have played out this way .

But Eichorst was fired. And from that moment Riley was a dead man walking

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

very few high profile recruits are going to sign up to play for a coach whose team and players get nationally embarrassed while playing the role of cupcake for ranked programs and are engaged in epic pillow fights with likes of Purdue.
A new coach with the Nebraska facilities and fan support, etc can sell hope of being competitive on a national stage to recruits.

A 3rd year coach whose team loses to NIU and then comes out on national TV and begs for mercy at the feet of Urban Meyer right from the opening kickoff has lost any ability to recruit about how bright the future is going to be.

The problem with that argument is that Bookie and Moore and Williams all commited to Nebraska after 2 embarrassing losses at the end of last season and before any other games were played.

The relationship with Williams, Williams and Riley is why many of these players even had Nebraska on their list. To pretend that the NIU game or the beatdown to OSU is the sole reason these guys are going to open up their recruitment is silly. The fact that Riley wont be here next year, the fact that Williams and Williams wont be here next year play just as big a role, and in my opinion a bigger role in why these players are and will be decommiting.

But the high profile recruit issue is bigger than all of this.

I have said this 100 times but no one seems to take it into account. Nebraska needs to decide if it wants to recruit like Wisconsin or Ohio St. It has to decide if it wants to run a spread offense or a power running I formation offense. It has to decide if it wants a game manager at QB or a playmaker at QB.

For all the praise some give Wisconsin for being the model to follow, when is the last time they were in the picture for a national title? I mean a real shot at the national title. What about Iowa? Both of those teams have played for conference titles in the past 3 years, but neither were truly in the picture.

Why? Because they play conservative football that keeps them in games against the more athletic teams, beat weaker teams. But the fact is, when they play against the top athletic teams in games that matter, they are not nearly as consistent as they are when they play weaker teams.

So again, do you want to get high profile recruits or do you want to find a bunch of 3 star kids and develop them. It is getting harder to do both.

 

[otismotis08]

Don't completely disagree here. If Riley were doing well then Eichorst would not have been fired and all would be well. So yeah, Eichorst's demise is directly linked to Riley's failures as a coach. So as soon as Eichorst is fired the "Riley is next" mantra begins and my narrative holds. I am not trying to spin this narrative to exonerate Riley. Ultimately, his losses on the field caused this mess. I think he should go.

But let's assume Bounds and Green don't fire Eichorst. Suppose instead they decide to double down and really publicly support Eichorst/Riley? What if Eichorst, with the full support of Green says "Despite our current growing pains we think Riley has us going where we need to go. Mike Riley is going to be our coach for many more years." There would still be grumbling and rumblings among the fans, but the perception would now be flipped in Riley's favor. It could have played out this way .

But Eichorst was fired. And from that moment Riley was a dead man walking

If that would have happened, I honestly believe many here (myself included) would have put Nebraska football on ice.

 

[Pennsyhusker_rivals246774]

If that would have happened, I honestly believe many here (myself included) would have put Nebraska football on ice.

Me too. I am glad that latter scenario was not pursued. And I think Bounds and Green made the right call.

Just pointing out that the latter scenario was a possible option. But once it was rejected, Riley's goose was cooked.

 

[jlb321_rivals110621]

The problem with that argument is that Bookie and Moore and Williams all commited to Nebraska after 2 embarrassing losses at the end of last season and before any other games were played.

The relationship with Williams, Williams and Riley is why many of these players even had Nebraska on their list. To pretend that the NIU game or the beatdown to OSU is the sole reason these guys are going to open up their recruitment is silly. The fact that Riley wont be here next year, the fact that Williams and Williams wont be here next year play just as big a role, and in my opinion a bigger role in why these players are and will be decommiting.

But the high profile recruit issue is bigger than all of this.

I have said this 100 times but no one seems to take it into account. Nebraska needs to decide if it wants to recruit like Wisconsin or Ohio St. It has to decide if it wants to run a spread offense or a power running I formation offense. It has to decide if it wants a game manager at QB or a playmaker at QB.

For all the praise some give Wisconsin for being the model to follow, when is the last time they were in the picture for a national title? I mean a real shot at the national title. What about Iowa? Both of those teams have played for conference titles in the past 3 years, but neither were truly in the picture.

Why? Because they play conservative football that keeps them in games against the more athletic teams, beat weaker teams. But the fact is, when they play against the top athletic teams in games that matter, they are not nearly as consistent as they are when they play weaker teams.

So again, do you want to get high profile recruits or do you want to find a bunch of 3 star kids and develop them. It is getting harder to do both.

good points but as a coach I think you can sell 6 wins to 9-4 with a heavy emphasis on our QB was hurt and we haven't fully implemented our systems to explain the losses. "Look at how close we are despite those deficiencies .. we just need you to make the next step .... sunshine, sunshine, sunshine ...."

then we kicked off the season and the optimism quickly faded .. kids aren't stupid ... It is highly likely that every time Bookie showed up in Husker gear his teammates and friends either outright laughed in his face or snickered behind his back

you have to be able to sell that you are close as a program to becoming relevant to high profile recruits

I don't think many of these high profile recruits were going to stick if we win 6 games even if the AD and Riley were retained and the admin gave them a vote of confidence .. that is just my opinion .. some believe they would have stayed committed .. no way to prove one way or the other

 

[huskerfan1414]

Yeah this season is why recruits are bailing. We are regressing. They aren't stupid.

 

[ctscts]

Once again, there was no reason to create months of instability and questions. We could have done this behind the scenes and only had a couple weeks of it. But what is done is done, what is important now is for Moos to get us the right head coach, rally the fan base and support the team through a rebuild.

You don't fire an AD and a coach and replace both in a few weeks. Certainly not if you are allowing your AD to actually do his job.

I am not sure what difference it makes if we fire MR now or end of season. How is Florida's recruiting going right now? I highly doubt they will name a coach until end of season. Not many coaches leave mid season for new jobs. So there is just as much uncertainty there as with us.

Neither is a good option, but just don't get how people think we should have handled replacing an AD and a coach (if it happens) any differently.

 

[Archie Graham]

You are right that very few posters are saying Riley deserves no blame. But there are quite a few posters offering up alternative blame in such a manner that it is implying that it isn't really his fault.

Yawn. There has been significant discussion on this board, for a couple years now, about mistakes that Riley has made since he was hired. That's a fact. It's also a fact that Riley has had to encounter some challenges that were out of his control (e.g., the AD that hired him being fired in September). Those two things can co-exist.

 

[Archie Graham]

You said the firing of Eichorst was "the final nail in the coffin." That's complete hogwash. Surprise...now your narrative changes.

That's exactly what I said. And I stand by it.

 

[Archie Graham]

Do you seriously think there wouldn't be talk of firing Riley if Eichorst was here? Do you think that the narrative of change would somehow be put off given the results of this year? Frankly, it would be far crazier if the fans felt that change wasn't in the works.

Densitron3000 putting in work here.

 

[SnohomishRed]

Some fans really struggle to identify patterns. It's only every year now that recruits like everything they see January - August, then the conference slate rolls around and they realize they don't wanna be coached down for 4-5 years and be the 3rd best team in the West.

I keep trying to tell people but the "fanlier than thou" set only wants to say that it's the fault of fans like me for stating that the emperor has no clothes. This staff doesn't have these guys doing anything well. It's Tanner Lee and a bunch of nothing, even at positions that were supposed strengths.

OL can't block, WRs can't catch, LBs can't stop the run, DBs can't cover. Millions of dollars being spent for that to happen.

Still can't figure out it might be good to try to block a punt once in a while if they're forcing you to fair catch all game. Guess you need those other 10 guys to properly set up a fair catch.

Is the talent level good? No. Are they making the most of what they have? No. Not even close. Can't run the ball on Purdue for God sakes.

This is 100% on the money - This staff won the off season but really struggled once the season started and the teams looked poorly coached. You can not recruit at a high level and look like garbage on the field. If the team was disciplined and was getting better it would be very easy to see however it is not happening and recruits see that also.

 

[Rcnut223]

Has he had a full class yet?
Players don't show up...
He's bo with a smile. NU deserves better.

no

neither signed or landed.

 

[gw2kpro]

Some fans really struggle to identify patterns. It's only every year now that recruits like everything they see January - August, then the conference slate rolls around and they realize they don't wanna be coached down for 4-5 years and be the 3rd best team in the West.

I keep trying to tell people but the "fanlier than thou" set only wants to say that it's the fault of fans like me for stating that the emperor has no clothes. This staff doesn't have these guys doing anything well. It's Tanner Lee and a bunch of nothing, even at positions that were supposed strengths.

OL can't block, WRs can't catch, LBs can't stop the run, DBs can't cover. Millions of dollars being spent for that to happen.

Still can't figure out it might be good to try to block a punt once in a while if they're forcing you to fair catch all game. Guess you need those other 10 guys to properly set up a fair catch.

Is the talent level good? No. Are they making the most of what they have? No. Not even close. Can't run the ball on Purdue for God sakes.

Spot on. Because we WANTED this to be a good hire, even though a head-scratcher, and SUPPORTED it up until the wheels fell off this season doesn't make the fans responsible for this.

And 100% in agreement on the "we really don't do ANYTHING worth a **** on the field" analysis.

QB play has been inconsistent. OL play is poor and possibly regressing. Receivers have been dropping balls all year. It appears that our tackling "technique" is to lower the shoulder on someone and hope they go down.

In-game coaching and clock management continues to have WTF moments every game. I keep waiting for something to look proper on the field. For the last few minutes against Purdue, finally got some QB play that we have been waiting for all year.

For so many years this program couldn't get over the talent gap that existed between us and Miami / FSU. They flat out kicked our teeth in many times. They had better overall talent and we couldn't make that up until we upgraded ours.

But those Nebraska teams didn't spend those games and seasons beating themselves with sloppy, sloppy play, turnovers, penalties, and flat out on-field confusion and the appearance that the OL and linebackers simply don't understand their assignments..

There's a huge difference between "getting beat" -- which happens to everyone -- and "losing".

We have been "losing" on the field a hell of a lot the last couple years. And you don't need to pay a coach millions to achieve that.

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

Spot on. Because we WANTED this to be a good hire, even though a head-scratcher, and SUPPORTED it up until the wheels fell off this season doesn't make the fans responsible for this.

And 100% in agreement on the "we really don't do ANYTHING worth a **** on the field" analysis.

QB play has been inconsistent. OL play is poor and possibly regressing. Receivers have been dropping balls all year. It appears that our tackling "technique" is to lower the shoulder on someone and hope they go down.

In-game coaching and clock management continues to have WTF moments every game. I keep waiting for something to look proper on the field. For the last few minutes against Purdue, finally got some QB play that we have been waiting for all year.

For so many years this program couldn't get over the talent gap that existed between us and Miami / FSU. They flat out kicked our teeth in many times. They had better overall talent and we couldn't make that up until we upgraded ours.

But those Nebraska teams didn't spend those games and seasons beating themselves with sloppy, sloppy play, turnovers, penalties, and flat out on-field confusion and the appearance that the OL and linebackers simply don't understand their assignments..

There's a huge difference between "getting beat" -- which happens to everyone -- and "losing".

We have been "losing" on the field a hell of a lot the last couple years. And you don't need to pay a coach millions to achieve that.

You are giving some people Faaaaaaaar too much credit for supporting anything. A good majority of the people leading the charge now have been against the hire from the beginning and have said as much. They were no where to be found when this team was the 8th ranked paper tiger last year, but came around again after the Ohio St game last year.

These guys are looking for some sort of prize for being right in 2014.

 

[TheBeav815]

You are giving some people Faaaaaaaar too much credit for supporting anything. A good majority of the people leading the charge now have been against the hire from the beginning and have said as much. They were no where to be found when this team was the 8th ranked paper tiger last year, but came around again after the Ohio St game last year.

These guys are looking for some sort of prize for being right in 2014.

So you're angry with the people who seem to have been right all along because the power of their well-wishes could have made college kids block and tackle better?

Sellout streak is still there, boys. The fans didn't sabotage Mike Riley. The product on the field did. I know that's not a stocked roster, but I sure don't see them improving at anything out there.

 

[TheBeav815]

Are we honestly to believe that when it's 3rd and 2 and the defense needs to make a stop, there are LBs out there thinking, "You know what? I'm only gonna give it 85% on this snap because some dudes on message boards don't believe in the coach. I was gonna make a TFL here, but I think I'll tank this one because the 'toxic fans' have turned me."

 

[RealTucoSalamanca]

So you're angry with the people who seem to have been right all along because the power of their well-wishes could have made college kids block and tackle better?

Sellout streak is still there, boys. The fans didn't sabotage Mike Riley. The product on the field did. I know that's not a stocked roster, but I sure don't see them improving at anything out there.

Nope not angry at all, just find it comical that they only appear after blowout losses and when the changes are about to be made.

The post was about people generally supporting Mike Riley until a time when it was apparent he wasn't going to be successful. My reply was that he is giving too much credit to the internet fan board fans, because a good many of them haven't been supportive at all.

But keep pushing your narrative or whatever you are trying to do.

 

[Huskercigar]

Don't completely disagree here. If Riley were doing well then Eichorst would not have been fired and all would be well. So yeah, Eichorst's demise is directly linked to Riley's failures as a coach. So as soon as Eichorst is fired the "Riley is next" mantra begins and my narrative holds. I am not trying to spin this narrative to exonerate Riley. Ultimately, his losses on the field caused this mess. I think he should go.

But let's assume Bounds and Green don't fire Eichorst. Suppose instead they decide to double down and really publicly support Eichorst/Riley? What if Eichorst, with the full support of Green says "Despite our current growing pains we think Riley has us going where we need to go. Mike Riley is going to be our coach for many more years." There would still be grumbling and rumblings among the fans, but the perception would now be flipped in Riley's favor. It could have played out this way .

But Eichorst was fired. And from that moment Riley was a dead man walking

The problem is that having both of them still here would have all the fans throwing up their hands. Now there is hope. They fired SE at that time for one reason. To be prepared to fire Riley. Given out a false hope of security by Bounds and Green wasn't going to help us win.