OT: St. Louis Cardinals

[BonzoGoesToCollege]

Those that follow MLB know that I'm not a big fan of John Mozeliak and his puppet Michael Girsch. It's hard to follow their line of thinking when it comes to player personnel decisions. Last year, St. Louis was 24th in all of baseball in OPS against RHP. Their lineup last year did not include a single LH bat (Carlson and Edman switch). So one would think a LH bat would be a priority. So they signed Corey Dickerson. Dickerson's history shows he could be a serviceable bat, but not in a power spot like in the 5 hole. This guy is not gonna move the needle. He's 33 and really just a bench/role player now. Currently hitting 0.148 with zero XBHs. He also signs another RH in Pujols who can barely run to 1st. Then I started thinking about what position players in his 14 years at the helm have come up through the ranks and been productive in St. Louis. I really can't think of one. Alot of the guys he drafted recently were highly rated that just don't seem to pan out.

Bader sucks
Carlson sucks
O'neill sucks
Sosa sucks
Dejong sucks
Nootbar sucks
Yadi has no business playing this year

I know we're only 16 games in, but 9 guys on the 28 man roster currently have an OPS under 0.600. Then I found this article that suggests Moron is doing an adequate job. But this article just doesn't translate to what I've been watching the last 10 years. Hitters regress when they are called up.

https://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2021/7/16/22576046/the-mozeliak-years-draft-and-development

So it has to be one of 2 things. His draftees aren't as good as they are projected. Or whatever hitting philosophy they're using isn't working. They all look lost at the plate.

But seriously, can anyone name any players that have come up through the ranks and been productive in St. Louis?

Just another wasted summer watching another one of bowtie's overpriced rosters underperform.

 

[ronpolk]

Saying you’re not a big fan of Mo is the biggest understatement I’ve seen on this board. You’re borderline irrational about him at times. I agree it’s time to move on from DeJong and Sosa is not a starting caliber SS. The situation is what it is with Yadi. But I disagree with you on the outfield. Carlson was fine last year and should improve off of that, Bader is a quality starting CF and O’Neil was statistically maybe the best offensive player last season. If there was an upgrade to be had, I’d part ways with Bader for sure but the other 2 are fine.

 

[PartTimeGenius]

Never been a big fan of Bader. He's killer with the glove, but in 5 years he' never hit over .270. No big power numbers, not a big SB guy. BUT you'd never know that watching him, parade around everywhere....
Dejong is much the same offensively. Outside of better power numbers than Bader, he's very vanilla.
O'Neill hasn't won me over, but I still give him a chance.

Carlson and Nootbaar still have a chance to be good.

Let's get Gorman up to the bigs and stop dilly dallying.

 

[missouridawg]

Never been a big fan of Bader. He's killer with the glove, but in 5 years he' never hit over .270. No big power numbers, not a big SB guy. BUT you'd never know that watching him, parade around everywhere....
Dejong is much the same offensively. Outside of better power numbers than Bader, he's very vanilla.
O'Neill hasn't won me over, but I still give him a chance.

Carlson and Nootbaar still have a chance to be good.

Let's get Gorman up to the bigs and stop dilly dallying.

In Tyler O'Neill's first full season (not counting the COVID year) of being an everyday player, he hit .286 with 34 HR and 80 RBI. He stole 15 bases in 19 attempts. He also won a Gold Glove. He finished top 10 in the MVP voting.

Prior to that year, yes, he struggled. I was totally with you early last season. In fact, I was pretty pissed that we went into the season with Carlson, Bader, and O'Neill as our starting outfield. But O'Neill answered the bell in a tremendous way. He gets a little grace period from me, as his first full season as an everyday starter was really, really solid.

We really need Carlson to improve upon his .266/.780 that he did last year in his first full year.

And I think Bader is who he is. A knuckle headed CFer who covers a lot of ground, but isn't going to bring much offensively to the team. Hope he proves me wrong.

 

[ronpolk]

Never been a big fan of Bader. He's killer with the glove, but in 5 years he' never hit over .270. No big power numbers, not a big SB guy. BUT you'd never know that watching him, parade around everywhere....
Dejong is much the same offensively. Outside of better power numbers than Bader, he's very vanilla.
O'Neill hasn't won me over, but I still give him a chance.

Carlson and Nootbaar still have a chance to be good.

Let's get Gorman up to the bigs and stop dilly dallying.

I’d love to see Bader have a better OBP… I don’t think the average is ever going to be outstanding. But I’m ok with him in CF and being a bottom of the order guy.

Last year could have been a flash in the pan for O’Neil but I’m not sure what you need him to do to win you over. He had a very impressive year last season. He’s about as protected in a lineup as possible hitting between Goldy and Arenado too. I know he’s off to a slow start but I think he will be fine.

 

[dorndawg]

I’d love to see Bader have a better OBP… I don’t think the average is ever going to be outstanding. But I’m ok with him in CF and being a bottom of the order guy.

Last year could have been a flash in the pan for O’Neil but I’m not sure what you need him to do to win you over. He had a very impressive year last season. He’s about as protected in a lineup as possible hitting between Goldy and Arenado too. I know he’s off to a slow start but I think he will be fine.

[h=2]2022 NL MVP ODDS[/h]

• Juan Soto +400
• Ronald Acuna, Jr. +700
• Nolan Arenado +900
• Francisco Lindor +1000
• Bryce Harper +1200
• Trea Turner +1600
• Freddie Freeman +1600
• Mookie Betts +2000
• Pete Alonso +2000
• Matt Olson +2000
• Manny Machado +2200
• Fernando Tatis, Jr. +3000
• Austin Riley +3000
• Christian Yelich +3500
• Tyler O'Neill +3500

https://www.vegasinsider.com/mlb/odds/mvp/

 

[PartTimeGenius]

Like I say, O'Neill hasn't won me over yet, but if he can have a solid year this year, I'll be in his corner.

 

[Irondawg]

The DH was the miss and maybe they just went cheap because they knew they might be pulling up Gorman early in the year.

They keep trying to let DeJong improve but he’s running out of chances. I really thought Carlson was going to take a big step this year and he’s struggled out of the gate.

The overall team build is pretty solid though and I think they’ll find a bat on the trade market

 

[ronpolk]

The DH was the miss and maybe they just went cheap because they knew they might be pulling up Gorman early in the year.

They keep trying to let DeJong improve but he’s running out of chances. I really thought Carlson was going to take a big step this year and he’s struggled out of the gate.

The overall team build is pretty solid though and I think they’ll find a bat on the trade market

I wouldn’t mind seeing DeJong traded for some pitching depth, move Edman to SS and being Gorman up for 2nd.

 

[missouridawg]

I wouldn’t mind seeing DeJong traded for some pitching depth, move Edman to SS and being Gorman up for 2nd.

I like your optimism - but who's taking Dejong for anything of value?

 

[Irondawg]

Gormans glove isn’t great and I don’t know how good Edman can play short so you don’t want to decimate the defense.

DeJong/Sosa and Bader are ok as bottom lineup guys since they are pretty good defensively and at least offer pop in the lineup.

If Gorman keeps hitting I think you just bring him up and let him DH mostly and let him get his feet wet in the field every 5-6th day

Then you see how you feel about everything in late June and go from there

 

[BonzoGoesToCollege]

I like your optimism - but who's taking Dejong for anything of value?

Exactly. Dejong hasn't hit in 3 years. But Moron signed him to that ridiculous contract after 1 year so he's stuck with him and has to play him. I don't know if Sosa is a better option, but if neither hits at all in the near future, maybe consider sliding Edman to short and callng up Gorman to play 2nd. Or just ride with Sosa at short and live with whatever he can provide and let Gorman DH. Hate to move Edman from a position where he won a GG last year.

In regards to O'neill, he falls into the mold of alot of Mo's guys who are all or nothing type guys (although Mo didn't draft him but traded for him). Time will tell on him, but he's gonna whiff alot.

In general, I just don't like that all or nothing mentality that MLB has adopted. Nobody bunts, nobody steals, nobody seems to hit the ball to the right side to advance a runner from 2nd to 3rd. Just everyone swinging for the fences.