I’d start Harding tomorrow...
- Thread starter ronpolk
- Start date
Not to fully reiterate what I posted in the other thread, but I still think their lineup is too RH heavy for Harding to have much long term success. Plus, we’d have no mid to late game lefty matchup guy for Kavadas if we needed it once Harding has been burned. There are plenty of RH guys on the docket that we can put out there with a quick hook. That makes more sense to me than coming out of the gate with the only semi-reliable LH arm we have left (no pun intended).
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Their left hander pretty much shut down our right handed batters yesterday. Don't see why Harding can't do the same.
It's a win or pack it up game.....
So pretty much everybody is available except Bednar and Macleod. There is one thing that is absolutely true and that is both Sims and Hootie will play tomorrow. With that there is only two things to debate. Do you start Sims and the if you don't do you start Harding?
1. Starting Sims. Notre Dame's MO has been get out to a fast start and put us back on our heels. They have done this two days in a row and we have helped them along with freebies that have led to runs. Plus they are coming in with momentum on their side. Starting Sims gives you a chance to halt their momentum, score some runs, and get into middle innings with a lead. It also gives an opportunity to keep ND off balance adjusting to a fireballer then hitting em with the direct opposite. Yes it burns Sims for the late innings but you gotta get there first. He will do us no good down 4 runs in the 8th inning so he is going to pitch anyway if we get in trouble even if its the early innings.
2. If Sims doesn't start then who does? Whomever you start one thing they MUST do is throw competitive strikes. You cannot walk these guys nor can you throw fastballs over the heart of the plate either. For that reason you can't start Fristoe for sure. The conventional wisdom is Hootie does better out of the pen and someone has opined starting Cade Smith based on how he pitched that one inning yesterday but pitching an inning with the game no longer in doubt is way different than starting in a pressure cooker.
I think this game from a pitching standpoint is going to come down to Houston Harding. I really would not be opposed to starting Sims as I think that would probably throw them for a bit of a loop and might give Hootie the best chance to be effective. If not then Harding has to start. ND isn't going to throw a hail mary and load up with all righties like Mizzou did. Harding has had some good starts for us and I think he is more likely to handle the pressure better than anyone else on the staff. If does start and gets into trouble early the next man up is Sims no matter if its the first inning. You hold Sims ONLY if you have a multi run lead. If Harding falters in the middle innings with a lead then you consider brining in Smith, or Simmons or really Johnny Wholestaff to try preserve it until the 7th.
So pretty much everybody is available except Bednar and Macleod. There is one thing that is absolutely true and that is both Sims and Hootie will play tomorrow. With that there is only two things to debate. Do you start Sims and the if you don't do you start Harding?
1. Starting Sims. Notre Dame's MO has been get out to a fast start and put us back on our heels. They have done this two days in a row and we have helped them along with freebies that have led to runs. Plus they are coming in with momentum on their side. Starting Sims gives you a chance to halt their momentum, score some runs, and get into middle innings with a lead. It also gives an opportunity to keep ND off balance adjusting to a fireballer then hitting em with the direct opposite. Yes it burns Sims for the late innings but you gotta get there first. He will do us no good down 4 runs in the 8th inning so he is going to pitch anyway if we get in trouble even if its the early innings.
2. If Sims doesn't start then who does? Whomever you start one thing they MUST do is throw competitive strikes. You cannot walk these guys nor can you throw fastballs over the heart of the plate either. For that reason you can't start Fristoe for sure. The conventional wisdom is Hootie does better out of the pen and someone has opined starting Cade Smith based on how he pitched that one inning yesterday but pitching an inning with the game no longer in doubt is way different than starting in a pressure cooker.
I think this game from a pitching standpoint is going to come down to Houston Harding. I really would not be opposed to starting Sims as I think that would probably throw them for a bit of a loop and might give Hootie the best chance to be effective. If not then Harding has to start. ND isn't going to throw a hail mary and load up with all righties like Mizzou did. Harding has had some good starts for us and I think he is more likely to handle the pressure better than anyone else on the staff. If does start and gets into trouble early the next man up is Sims no matter if its the first inning. You hold Sims ONLY if you have a multi run lead. If Harding falters in the middle innings with a lead then you consider brining in Smith, or Simmons or really Johnny Wholestaff to try preserve it until the 7th.
Because they are a much better hitting team than we are when you compare the entirety of each team’s lineup.
I don't think there is anything to that wisdom. He hasn't had enough starts to really say for sure I don't think, but he has been fine in his starts. Had a bad outing just like all of our starters have had.
But I think you have it right. There are only two options. Harding seems like the logical choice. He's a starter and the best starter available. THe only argument I see against Harding is that if he comes out and struggles, you have to go to sims immediately and then you've burned Harding. Harding gets in trouble in the second, then you burn Sims and you're probably going to have to get 3 or 4 innings out of the rest of the staff. If you start Sims and he performs for three innings or preferably four, then maybe we get enough of a lead that we can give Harding a chance to work through trouble and not have to yank him at the first sign of trouble.
I am 50/50 on it. I would normally say no way you switch up routines like that, but I would trust Sims to be able to handle it and I see the logic in it. The reality is we're probably going to need to score 7 or 8 runs and can't depend on Notre Dame to help us out with errors to do so.
I’d legit be thinking about Cerantola right now. If he puts the first couple on, so be it and pull him, but the possible reward of actually having someone other than Sims that can sack up against these guys far outweighs the risk. There’s not a single pitcher that we can start right now that wouldn’t be a similar risk
It ain’t happening, I know, but it’s worth considering. ND is too disciplined and too good at connecting on 90 mph fast balls
It ain’t happening, I know, but it’s worth considering. ND is too disciplined and too good at connecting on 90 mph fast balls
Agreed. If we were going to take a chance on him, it should have been yesterday. And, in hindsight, maybe we should have. On second thought, if that didn't work, we'd be looking at MacLeod tonight, so scratch that. I still think Harding is our best option, and right now the only starter I halfway trust (even if he hasn't started a game in over a month).
I still like the idea of starting a righty and bringing Hoot on in relief. He's had much better success in those scenarios.
And let's be honest...Fristoe has been terrible with his command....but with his stuff, he could pull a three hit masterpiece out of his rear end today. You just never know what to expect. But I am thinking we won't see him either.
And let's be honest...Fristoe has been terrible with his command....but with his stuff, he could pull a three hit masterpiece out of his rear end today. You just never know what to expect. But I am thinking we won't see him either.
Their lefty was a completely different type of pitcher than Harding. He was a soft tossing breaking ball pitcher that had us chasing pitches out of the zone. That's not what Harding is.
The more appropriate argument is that Notre Dame is very similar offensively to Campbell (who was much better than they get credit for), and Harding held them down.
I've actually been going back and forth on this the past couple weeks. He won't do any worse than what Fristoe has been doing and he has that possibility of shutting them down. His last couple outings he's looked good. We know Lemonis is going to want to throw a right hander because of line up matchup. If you put him out there and he immediately puts 2 on in the first, pull him for Harding.
I know it won't happen and if it did, I'd need a xanax to settle my nerves
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Went to bed thinking Harding last night. Thought about it some more this morning and I now think I would go with Stone Simmons. No starts all year so it's a gamble, but he doesn't walk many (averages one walk per three innings), hasn't allowed a home run all year, and has a .202 BAA. Plus he's a righty against a heavy right handed lineup.
You absolutely have a short leash with him, heck I might start the game with Harding warming up in the pen. But I think Simmons is a little bit the best of both worlds. He's less of a risk than somebody like Fristoe or Cerantola, and good enough to where you could potentially get a few innings out of him and not have to use up Harding or Sims so early on.
You absolutely have a short leash with him, heck I might start the game with Harding warming up in the pen. But I think Simmons is a little bit the best of both worlds. He's less of a risk than somebody like Fristoe or Cerantola, and good enough to where you could potentially get a few innings out of him and not have to use up Harding or Sims so early on.
In the ideal plan, I’d go Preston Johnson as the starter and pitch through the lineup once. Hopefully you get 2-3 innings from him. Stick with him until the first sign of even moderate trouble and then go to Harding. Ideally you get 3 to 5 from Hootie and then move to Sims in the 7th unless we are just way out in front.
Backup plan if we go off schedule from the ideal plan: Stone Simmons is the next guy to consider for multiple innings. And of course if you are in a big jam such that we feel the game is on the verge of slipping away, Sims is there to use in any spot.
Backup plan if we go off schedule from the ideal plan: Stone Simmons is the next guy to consider for multiple innings. And of course if you are in a big jam such that we feel the game is on the verge of slipping away, Sims is there to use in any spot.
I would probably start Harding and let him get one trip through the lineup. Then Simmons for one trip through. Then Sims in the 5th if we have a lead or it's close.
Sims has thrown 70-80 a few times this year, so he can get 4-5 innings if needed. Being a Super Regional, you'd think he'd have the energy to get to 90-100 if we really need it.
Sims has thrown 70-80 a few times this year, so he can get 4-5 innings if needed. Being a Super Regional, you'd think he'd have the energy to get to 90-100 if we really need it.
I think you have to mix and match. Preston, Stone Simmons, Cade Smith....I'm good with any of those guys. I actually like the idea of Simmons getting the start.
The hard reality that many on here are forgetting about Harding is that he can struggle against a rightly lineup, which is what Notre Dame has.
The hard reality that many on here are forgetting about Harding is that he can struggle against a rightly lineup, which is what Notre Dame has.
Same. This feels like the worst possible idea.
50% chance he beans one of the first 3 batters, and walks the other two. I don't care for those odds.
50% chance he beans one of the first 3 batters, and walks the other two. I don't care for those odds.
No he couldn't do any worse but if he did just bad we lose this ball game. Whoever starts today before all else MUST NOT WALK OR HIT PEOPLE. There are no two worse options than Fristoe or Cerantola to do that. I would not hesitate to put Cerantola out there in a desperation situation but we are about 4 or 5 pitchers before that even becomes a thought and the only scenario that I would consider is if we are in a tight double digit run track meet where it will either work or the track meet continues.
I could live with that too. The real hard reality is we just don't have many good options for starting pitching, and the 2 best options are both very inconsistent. Any of those guys, including Harding, are perfectly capable of giving us 2-3 good innings, or of getting shelled.
I think we have a really good group of right handed arms. I'd be really tempted to run them out one at a time for about five innings (Simmons, Preston, Stennett, Johnson, C. Smith), with perhaps Harding mixed in somewhere in the middle, and then go to Sims.
Truth be told, Bednar could probably throw an inning or two today. He had a short outing Friday.
Maybe, but the flip side of that coin is that he could go 5 innings while giving up 2-3 runs which is better than you’re going to get from any other option today. Aside from Sims, our best pitchers have been putting 2 or more ND batters on base constantly throughout this series, and that’s not going to get better with our usual Sunday staff.
If we had an actual safe option today, I’d be all for it, but at no point this season were we able to find a half decent game 3 starter, so my point is that anyone we throw out today is risky. They’re gonna get hit, so why not at least consider going with someone that has some upside?
If we had an actual safe option today, I’d be all for it, but at no point this season were we able to find a half decent game 3 starter, so my point is that anyone we throw out today is risky. They’re gonna get hit, so why not at least consider going with someone that has some upside?
Stop calling you out on your ********? Sure. The rest of the internet will still be doing it for quite awhile though.
ETA: Aww….he mad. Bringin in the alters for the downvotes.
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Preston. Has the right mindset, and throws strikes.
I like him as a 'settle down' middle reliever a lot, but he seems to be the best one I trust to go out there today and not start walking guys in the first inning. We need a solid first inning (for once) to get everyone settled down. If they start hitting him, quick hook and then go to Simmons or Hootie, then Stinnett.
But we need someone throwing strikes. No nibblers allowed in Game 3.
I like him as a 'settle down' middle reliever a lot, but he seems to be the best one I trust to go out there today and not start walking guys in the first inning. We need a solid first inning (for once) to get everyone settled down. If they start hitting him, quick hook and then go to Simmons or Hootie, then Stinnett.
But we need someone throwing strikes. No nibblers allowed in Game 3.
This was almost exactly my thought, sorry I didn't see it first or I'd have given you some credit.
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