It's simple. Rowdy and Hatcher have to step up.....

[Russ Wheeler]

They are 4th year players. Allen is doing his part, Hancock/James/Tanner are doing what's expected. But .233 and .229 aren't getting it done. OPS are too low. Got to be better. Got to stop pressing for the draft and figure out how they can help THIS team win, at the plate and in the field.

The rest are what they are. Whether it's Skinner, Dubrule, Cumbest, Leggett, it doesn't matter. Role players. The team belongs to the veteran starters, they've been there before.

The same can probably be said of McCleod but I expect more out of guys who have started for multiple years and been to Omaha twice, heavily contributing to the effort. Routine ground balls don't cut it at this point.

ETA: You can’t bench these guys. If you’re solution is to do that, you have no business commenting. Maybe you do it to send a message temporarily, but it can’t be the long game.

 

[Bulldog from Birth]

This is it exactly. Their bats are what’s killing us offensively. They both need to be hitting .300 to .330 for us to be a solid hitting team. We were absolutely counting on these guys to be two of our more productive bats in the lineup.

 

[o_HuntDawg]

I agree with most however here are my thoughts:

1) Jordan is and has been overrated. He's a 290 career hitter. Hes overly aggressive and hes never hit well when hes in a been in a key spot in the order. Agree he can and should do better, but he's a 6-7 hole hitter and has been his entire career.

2) Hatcher is the most overrated guy ever. I have major issues with him being given a starting spot. He's a 270 career hitter that strikes out every 4 at-bats and ONLY has 7 homers (3 in his first 3 games) in 3 years worth of at-bats. We moved an ALL-SEC performer off 1st base and just gave him a starting spot? He needs to go to the bench TODAY. There has to be someone that can put up those numbers on our bench. If not then we need to do a better job recruiting.

Finally I agree and disagree about Allen. Sure hes getting his numbers. But he was a 350 guy with a 950 OPS. Both numbers are well below that this year. He was expected to and should have taken a big leap forward. He should be a high 300s guy with power and hes just not doing that right now. Not to mention hes 0 for the year with the bases loaded.

the offense has major major issues. Has all season. Its been masked and covered up by a coupled of mid week 9th inning rallies.

 

[Masal32]

Hatcher is not an SEC ball player. He’s overrated. Wes Rea all over again

 

[bruiser.sixpack]

Hatcher is not an SEC ball player. He’s overrated. Wes Rea all over again

I would love it if he was even up to Wes Rea standards.

 

[Phil Wenneck.sixpack]

Amen, amen, and amen. I break it down this way...

Stand behind home plate and look onto the field. Your guys in the middle. Catcher, shortstop, second base. Those are places you aren’t typically going to get a ton of hitting from. Defense is their ticket. You have to accept that in a lot of cases. In fact, Center is kind of a crap shoot. Lots of times you’ve got a speedy guy who hits well enough and puts pressure on the opponent. We were spoiled by a once in a blue moon type player in Mangum. So that means you best have to have some pop in your corner spots. James has produced some at third. Inconsistent glove (ok downright terrible may be a better word) but he’s at least shown a little pop. Hatcher has done nothing at 1st. Left field has given us nothing aside from Skinner’s big Friday game at LSU. And in Right, well TA is just TA. He’s going to hit around .320 with average power numbers. That’s not a bad thing and hell, might make him the MVP of this lineup but it’s just an example of we’re depending on people to carry us that just really aren’t elite.

 

[MSUDC11]

I get some 2014 vibes from this team. We have more talent this year but some of the issues are similar.

In 2014 we returned a lot of guys who were good role players on a very successful team the year before, but when it was their turn to be THE guys, they struggled. Alex Detz and Wes Rea looked good in 2013 when they had Adam Frazier and Hunter Renfroe right beside them in the batting order, but when those other guys were gone and it was all on them, they simply weren’t that good.

Rowdey and Hatcher might very well be more Alex Detz and Wes Rea than Jake Mangum and Nate Lowe. Or they could be good hitters who are in a slump. It’s time for them to do something, though. TA is what he is, good hitter but 2019 was probably his ceiling. James and Hancock are fine. I’m very high on Logan Tanner’s potential but he’s not quite there yet.

But yes, Rowdey and Hatcher have to really step up their games or it will be a major struggle for us to make it out of a Regional. We can’t have veterans who have been in the SEC forever not hitting when we get to the end of the year.

 

[Choctaw Dawg]

History has at least shown that Rowdy improves as the year goes on, but we need him now.

Hatcher career home runs: 3 in the first couple games his freshman year, 3 in 2019 that came all in the same weekend, and 1 this year against Samford. He is what he is and its not great.

 

[Masal32]

He’s also really good at throwing mini tantrums. At least he shows some emotion unlike Jordan. He looks half asleep most at bats.

 

[DAWG61]

I'd take a Wes Rea every year. Especially defensively. What an idiot.

 

[Masal32]

He was such an underachiever. Defensive was good but man, he had like 3 important hits his entire career.

 

[DAWG61]

What? He almost single-handily put out Oregon State in the 2013 CWS. Don't believe me read it for yourself from the OSU head coach at the time Pat Casey.

https://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/2013/06/college_world_series_wes_rea_h.html

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Heck put McDonald in the lineup.... can’t be that much drop off from Rowdy.

 

[dog12]

They are 4th year players. Allen is doing his part, Hancock/James/Tanner are doing what's expected. But .233 and .229 aren't getting it done. OPS are too low. Got to be better. Got to stop pressing for the draft and figure out how they can help THIS team win, at the plate and in the field.

The rest are what they are. Whether it's Skinner, Dubrule, Cumbest, Leggett, it doesn't matter. Role players. The team belongs to the veteran starters, they've been there before.

The same can probably be said of McCleod but I expect more out of guys who have started for multiple years and been to Omaha twice, heavily contributing to the effort. Routine ground balls don't cut it at this point.

ETA: You can’t bench these guys. If you’re solution is to do that, you have no business commenting. Maybe you do it to send a message temporarily, but it can’t be the long game.

How many double plays has Rowdy hit into this season?

Is he in double digits yet?

 

[mrbinsdog]

I think Gautrea bears some responsibility

How many double plays has Rowdy hit into this season?

Is he in double digits yet?

If guys aren’t progressing, the hitting coach has something to do with that.
if they are incapable of progressing, the hitting coach should de developing someone else to take their place in the lineup

 

[o_HuntDawg]

Worried some of these numbers are padded by the non conference stats:

The 6 SEC games:

Hatcher 4 for 23
Jordan 5 for 22
Hancock 3 for 18
Allen 7 for 24
Tanner 4 for 21
Dubrule 3 for 20
James 6 for 24

Small sample.. but Arkansas and LSU pitching doesn't seem like its upper tier either.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

Heck put McDonald in the lineup.... can’t be that much drop off from Rowdy.

I don't think that helps at this point. I think you go youth movement next year when it doesn't hurt as much. I think you have to roll with the upperclass this season. I would move Rowdy to LF though, and put Skinner in CF, and hey, if you want to throw McDonald out there some, I'm good with that, he seems like a spark plug.

Rowdy in LF
Allen in RF
James at 3B
Hancock at DH
Tanner at C
Hatcher at 1B
Skinner at CF
Leggett at SS
Dubrule at 2B

This is what ultimately happened in 2011, and we put it together at the end. Then the 2011 freshmen (Frazier/Renfroe/Rea) took over in 2012 and then made the run as juniors.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

I get some 2014 vibes from this team. We have more talent this year but some of the issues are similar.

In 2014 we returned a lot of guys who were good role players on a very successful team the year before, but when it was their turn to be THE guys, they struggled. Alex Detz and Wes Rea looked good in 2013 when they had Adam Frazier and Hunter Renfroe right beside them in the batting order, but when those other guys were gone and it was all on them, they simply weren’t that good.

Rowdey and Hatcher might very well be more Alex Detz and Wes Rea than Jake Mangum and Nate Lowe. Or they could be good hitters who are in a slump. It’s time for them to do something, though. TA is what he is, good hitter but 2019 was probably his ceiling. James and Hancock are fine. I’m very high on Logan Tanner’s potential but he’s not quite there yet.

But yes, Rowdey and Hatcher have to really step up their games or it will be a major struggle for us to make it out of a Regional. We can’t have veterans who have been in the SEC forever not hitting when we get to the end of the year.

No doubt and it sucks that they didn't get the chance to play together last year with Westburg and Foscue.

 

[ronpolk]

They are 4th year players. Allen is doing his part, Hancock/James/Tanner are doing what's expected. But .233 and .229 aren't getting it done. OPS are too low. Got to be better. Got to stop pressing for the draft and figure out how they can help THIS team win, at the plate and in the field.

The rest are what they are. Whether it's Skinner, Dubrule, Cumbest, Leggett, it doesn't matter. Role players. The team belongs to the veteran starters, they've been there before.

The same can probably be said of McCleod but I expect more out of guys who have started for multiple years and been to Omaha twice, heavily contributing to the effort. Routine ground balls don't cut it at this point.

ETA: You can’t bench these guys. If you’re solution is to do that, you have no business commenting. Maybe you do it to send a message temporarily, but it can’t be the long game.

Hard to argue with any of this. If I’m Lemonis, I’m sitting Hatcher for a week or so. He needs a reset. Same could be said about Rowdy but I don’t think I’d do that yet.

 

[o_HuntDawg]

I don't think that helps at this point. I think you go youth movement next year when it doesn't hurt as much. I think you have to roll with the upperclass this season. I would move Rowdy to LF though, and put Skinner in CF, and hey, if you want to throw McDonald out there some, I'm good with that, he seems like a spark plug.

Rowdy in LF
Allen in RF
James at 3B
Hancock at DH
Tanner at C
Hatcher at 1B
Skinner at CF
Leggett at SS
Dubrule at 2B

This is what ultimately happened in 2011, and we put it together at the end. Then the 2011 freshmen (Frazier/Renfroe/Rea) took over in 2012 and then made the run as juniors.

You may be right. Even Lemo said after the game there isn't much depth on the offensive side. That being said at the very least I'd get some different guys some starts in the midweek and see if we can jump start something. Or at least on a Sunday giving 2-3 guys a different shot doesn't seem like the end of the world.

I think Rowdy has earned his spot over the years. I just don't like him a the top of the order at all. Hatcher I'm obviously not a fan of. I think you could give a lot of different guys those same at-bats over his career and they would out-perform him. Why we assume or hope hes going to get better at this point, I just don't buy. Guy is overmatched by SEC pitching.

 

[Drebin]

Dubrule needs to step up too. He was brought here to get on base.

Overall, I wish our guys in the top half of the batting order saw more pitches. We kill way too many rallies going after the first pitch and hitting weak popups or grounding out. We've always been super aggressive like that under Gautreaux. It's just that in the past we've had really great hitters at the top. If you're hunting fastballs early in the count, you have to be able to cash it in when you get one.

I'm not a big proponent of small ball - but this offense would be better suited playing some more small ball. If we're waiting for two bloops and a bomb, we're going to end up getting a bloop, a double play and a pop out.

We have other guys that are completely lost at the plate. Yesterday, late in the game, and we're rallying (sort of), and Cumbest comes up and literally takes three pitches, all three fastballs right down the middle. If I'm Lemonis, Cumbest doesn't get another SEC at bat this year because of that.

 

[johnson86-1]

They are 4th year players. Allen is doing his part, Hancock/James/Tanner are doing what's expected. But .233 and .229 aren't getting it done. OPS are too low. Got to be better. Got to stop pressing for the draft and figure out how they can help THIS team win, at the plate and in the field.

The rest are what they are. Whether it's Skinner, Dubrule, Cumbest, Leggett, it doesn't matter. Role players. The team belongs to the veteran starters, they've been there before.

The same can probably be said of McCleod but I expect more out of guys who have started for multiple years and been to Omaha twice, heavily contributing to the effort. Routine ground balls don't cut it at this point.

ETA: You can’t bench these guys. If you’re solution is to do that, you have no business commenting. Maybe you do it to send a message temporarily, but it can’t be the long game.

I understand not benching Rowdy. He has a track record of improving even as he is seeing better pitching and he's a good defensive player. I'm not sure why you can't bench hatcher though. Seems like he's a position where if this is what you're going to get, might as well give that playing time and at bats to a younger guy. If we can't move Allen to first and have an underclassmen come in and match what Hatcher is doing, I'm really concerned about what our recruiting has been doing.

 

[The Peeper]

I'm getting this permanent vision etched in my mind from watching this year. Rowdy hitting a weak grounder to the infield (usually 2B) and being thrown out @ 1st. He turns and slowly trots back to the dugout w/ no emotion whatsoever, over, and over, and over and over......