This has been the question on Fox Sports radio all day. The analysts almost unanimously say no. Callers from all over the country overwhelmingly say yes. What say you?
Is Drew Brees a top 10 all-time QB?
- Thread starter 11thEagleFan
- Start date
He’s close, if not.
I expect him to make another Super Bowl when he won his first. Goes to show, you gotta take advantage when you get there.
I expect him to make another Super Bowl when he won his first. Goes to show, you gotta take advantage when you get there.
If not for the no-call PI in the end zone a couple years ago, I will always believe that the Saints would’ve beaten the Pats in the Super Bowl. Can you imagine how different Brees’ legacy would be if he was 2-0, with SB victories over Manning and Brady?
I hate to say it but no.
He’s one of the top 6 quarterbacks of the 21st century (Brady, Peyton, Mahomes, Rodgers, & Roethlisberger are the others) and he’s at best third behind Brady & Peyton now maybe behind Mahomes soon and then there’s Russell Wilson...
He’s one of the top 6 quarterbacks of the 21st century (Brady, Peyton, Mahomes, Rodgers, & Roethlisberger are the others) and he’s at best third behind Brady & Peyton now maybe behind Mahomes soon and then there’s Russell Wilson...
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I tend to agree. He’s the most accurate passer to play the game. That’s got to count for something. Also, he owns pretty much every passing statistic that there is. I’m not sure he’s top 5, but I’m not sure he’s not either. I would put Brady, Montana, and Peyton ahead of him for sure. Every other QB, you can make the argument for Brees.
I would take Brady, Manning, Elway, Marino, and Montana over Brees for sure. But he’d be in the conversation for #6. He is definitely Top 10.
But how would Staubach, Elway, Aikman, Steve Young, Bradshaw, & Marino do playing under the same rules as Brees?
Elway and Young were grievous omissions by me. Aikman ain’t in the same ball park as Brees. I would also take Brees over Marino and Bradshaw. The former is controversial, but I stand by it. All IMO, of course.
An interesting question, is he better than Favre? When ranking them in my head I came to that roadblock. If I have one game to win to save my life, I probably go with Brees. If I have 80 yards and 2 mins to go needing 7, I go with Favre every time.
Don't forget to ask Aaron Rodgers where he ranks in the top ten. I am sure that he will let you know really quick how much better he is than any of the dudes mentioned in this thread.
In no order, Manning, Brady, Montana, Bradshaw, Elway, Farve, Aaron Rodgers, Unites, Bart Starr, Marino are better.
Y'all have to remember Brees only has one First team All-Pro team and no MVPs. All of the above guys are on All-decade teams (Except Marino) and have more All-Pros or more MVPs than Brees, with Marino, the one non-all-decade guy having both more MVPs and All-Pros.
And this list doesn't even include names like Staubach, Otto Graham, Sammy Baugh, and other old-school QBs with more Super Bowls and All-Pros.
Ya his numbers are gaudy but that is more a product of the era he is playing in than anything else. Eli Manning, Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers, and Big Ben are all top 10 in all-time passing yards but you would be laughed at for discussing them near a top anything all-time list. Hell its questionable if Rivers and Manning get into the HOF and there is very little chance Ryan does.
I get there are a lot of Saints fans on this board and Brees is a legend and first ballot HOFer, but he isn't a top 10 QB all time.
First off, you can make very strong arguments that he was better overall than Favre, Elway, and Marino. Those were similar era QB’s with total numbers (including career passer rating) that weren’t anywhere close to Brees. And Favre / Marino didn’t have any more SB wins, either. Secondly, you can’t draw any conclusions about comparing Brees (or Brady or Montana, for that matter) to Bradshaw / Unitas / Starr / etc. The game was so different back then, and the numbers of all the greats from the past 40 years are so ridiculously superior to that era that its just a fruitless hypothetical exercise.
Brees is definitively a Top 10 QB (and probably Top 5 QB) over the past 40 years since 1980, and beyond that period you lose any real basis of comparison. I would put Brady, Montana, Manning, and Rodgers ahead of him for sure. He’s somewhere in that Elway / Favre / Marino tier. I’d personally put him ahead of all 3, but could at least entertain arguments about Elway being better. Favre and Marino didn’t have the SB wins advantage, and Favre just had too many negative career stats (career INT and fumbles leader, for instance) to put him ahead of Brees.
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Who knows? Probably better than they did in their actual era, but no way to know how much better. Does Marino’s career passer rating improve from 86 to 96? 106? No way to know. The only one you could say that would have definitely been awesome would be Montana, because his numbers in the 80’s and early 90’s would have been pretty damn good even today.
I was just thinking to myself that, if Marino could have played on the same Saints teams that Brees played with, then Marino would have won several Super Bowls.
In my opinion, Marino is the best QB when it comes to throwing a catchable pass. He could do anything with the ball . . . gun it, loft it or somewhere in between . . . and he'd put it exactly where it needed to be (accuracy) right on time (timing).
Marino just never did win the big game.
Also, nobody has mentioned Warren Moon and Jim Kelly. Those QBs could play too.
Are we sure Manning was better than Brees? I'm not.
Yes Manning has 4 SB appearances and 2 wins, but both times he won it all he was absolutely carried by his defense (go check his playoff stats in those years). Not to mention Brees beat him straight up in a Super Bowl. In my mind they are very close so if Manning is Top 10, then Brees would have to be as well.
Yes Manning has 4 SB appearances and 2 wins, but both times he won it all he was absolutely carried by his defense (go check his playoff stats in those years). Not to mention Brees beat him straight up in a Super Bowl. In my mind they are very close so if Manning is Top 10, then Brees would have to be as well.
Peyton also has had to be the Bert to Tom Brady's Ernie. For him to make four Super Bowls and being in the same conference as Brady is nothing short of exceptional.
I'd love to hear your strong argument that he was better overall than Favre, Elway, and Marino. None of what you mentioned in your post qualify. Those guys were not "similar era" QBs, either.
I'm not taking anything away from Brees, who was a great QB with terrific numbers. He's a hall of famer. But let's not go crazy.
I'm with you on Bradshaw, all day. He's one of the most overrated QBs out there. But Marino? Brees is great, but he's no Dan Marino. In a lot of ways, Dan Marino revolutionized the game and the position. And there's no telling what kind of career he would've had playing in Brees's era with rules that benefit high powered passing offenses.
No to top 10 all time, pretty simple reason, times have changed over the last several years with rules. Now days you can't touch QB's, use to be the defense would crush QB's and you had to be extremely tough. I'm not sure Brees would have had the career he had playing say in Bradshaw's era. Plus the DB's could "attack the wide receivers", the game has gotten softer.
I can only imagine telling Brees "Hold My Beer U Mo Fo"*** Say it ain't so. Dick Butkus improves this message!
I can only imagine telling Brees "Hold My Beer U Mo Fo"*** Say it ain't so. Dick Butkus improves this message!
I guess he's in the conversation, sure. But that conversation also has to include guys like Jim Kelly, Aikman, Favre, Steve Young, Bart Starr, Staubach, Unitas, and Bradshaw. Even guys still playing (Rothliesberger, Rogers, and even someone like Russell Wilson) would be in that discussion.
Personally, I think the best comp for Brees is Kurt Warner. I know Saints fans won't like that, but in their primes, they were similar QBs. Brees just had the longer career.
Apparently, the NFL thinks so. They published this list on their website 2 years ago.
https://www.nfl.com/news/top-25-qua...atriots-tom-brady-leads-list-0ap3000001035041
https://www.nfl.com/news/top-25-qua...atriots-tom-brady-leads-list-0ap3000001035041
The fact that Brees has finished ahead of all comers in passing yards seven times, a league record, doesn't validate the uniqueness of his production. Rather, it's how often Brees has reached numbers that other greats either never do or rarely do. For example, while he has passed the aforementioned 5,000-yard-barrier five times, no other player has managed that total more than once. He has completed over 70 percent of his passes four times, and no other player has surpassed that number more than one time.
Similar era as in not from the Staubach / Starr / Bradshaw / Unitas period where completing 53% of your passes made you one of the most accurate passers in the league. I didn’t say “same era”. There is a much smaller gap in the mid-80’s to 90’s to now in terms of the evolution of NFL passing offenses than there was from the 60’s / 70’s to the mid-80’s and 90’s. That’s just a fact.
As to your other question, he had more or the same hardware as Favre / Marino, and way better career numbers across the board than those two and Elway. So I don’t see how you can’t put him ahead of Favre / Marino at least, and possibly Elway as well.
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1.Brady
2. Montana
3. Manning
Next 3. Marino, Unitas, Elway
Next 6. Brees, Favre, Graham, Staubach, Rodgers, Tarkenton.
Brees definitely in the top half of that group or the group before. 6-9 at this time is fair.
Guy that always gets left out but should be up by Marino if they hadn't waited 6 years to give him a chance in the NFL?
Warren Moon. 50,000 yards passing after age 28. In the 80's and 90's when QB's got murdered and WR's got mugged.
2. Montana
3. Manning
Next 3. Marino, Unitas, Elway
Next 6. Brees, Favre, Graham, Staubach, Rodgers, Tarkenton.
Brees definitely in the top half of that group or the group before. 6-9 at this time is fair.
Guy that always gets left out but should be up by Marino if they hadn't waited 6 years to give him a chance in the NFL?
Warren Moon. 50,000 yards passing after age 28. In the 80's and 90's when QB's got murdered and WR's got mugged.
His numbers would suggest it, but he played in a different era and in a particular offense.
All time?
I'd go with Bradshaw, Stabler, and Staubach before Drew.
All time?
I'd go with Bradshaw, Stabler, and Staubach before Drew.
Let's look at it another way. If you were picking teams and needed a QB for one game and all you had on offense was a set of mediocre lineman and skill players and YOU or someone like Jack Del Rio were the coach (not Sean Payton) and you had to win, would you really choose Drew Brees as your QB? over all the QBs in NFL history?
I suspect none of you would choose him in your top 25, much less your top 10. I'd still choose Michael Vick over Brees.
I suspect none of you would choose him in your top 25, much less your top 10. I'd still choose Michael Vick over Brees.
Totally agree on Marino. He definitely can’t be labeled the best of all time without a championship, when Brady and Montana have 7 and 4. But I honestly think he might be the most talented QB to ever play the position. The velocity, the flight path.....it all was just on another level versus anyone else. Even Brady, Montana, and Manning, as good as they are, looked like other quarterbacks when they played. They were just more accurate and made better decisions. Something about Marino was just different.
Since you and DoggieDaddy also suck *** at reading comprehension, I’ll aGAIN say that I never said “same era”. The Brees era and the Marino / Elway / Favre eras are SIMILAR. Much more similar than either era is to Staubach / Starr / Unitas. Brees even played at the same time as Favre for almost a decade, and started just 2 years after Marino / Elway retired. Saying the eras aren’t similar in terms of how the game was played is ridiculous. Was it more friendly for Brees? Sure. But not so much that you could say that Elway / Marino / Favre would have added 12-20 points to their passer ratings if they played in the same time period. That’s a massive logical leap.
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Yes he played in a different era, but even in that era (which benefited all QBs) he led the league in passing 7 times. So even in an era of pass-happiness he stands head and shoulders above other passers.
Not sure how relevant Superbowls should be. A great QB can go a long way towards creating a championship team, but you're still very dependent on the organization you play for. Barry Sanders shouldn't get points detracted for playing for the Lions. How much credit should manning get for winning a superbowl when he was past his prime but had a defense that could carry him? I mean, it certainly means something that even past his prime, he was good enough to be good enough, just like Brady this year. But it just seems odd that if Marino had left money on the table to go chase a superbowl with a better team that it would impact his legacy that much.
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