Does anyone here know what a new car dealer
- Thread starter jdbulldog
- Start date
What you should pay obviously depends on make, model, and options. $40k could be a hell of a bargain, or a total rip-off depending on all of the above. What specifically are you looking at?
I think edmunds.com is still a reliable site for fair pricing. I use it all the time for used car purchasing, and I trust it for new car pricing...I just haven't purchased a new car for about 7 years.
Back in the day, the print version of Edmund's was golden. It provided true dealer costs on all new vehicles, and stayed pretty up to date on dealer incentives and hold backs. Back then, paying 2-3% over cost was considered a good deal.
I think the manufacturers have stayed ahead of the internet buyers. though. The websites that claim to provide true dealer cost want to hook you up with dealers. Not sure I would trust them.
Edmund's will tell you what people in your area are paying for the exact car you are looking at, including options. Instead if worrying about dealer profit, just try to pay less than everyone else. Stand firm, and see what happens.
Back in the day, the print version of Edmund's was golden. It provided true dealer costs on all new vehicles, and stayed pretty up to date on dealer incentives and hold backs. Back then, paying 2-3% over cost was considered a good deal.
I think the manufacturers have stayed ahead of the internet buyers. though. The websites that claim to provide true dealer cost want to hook you up with dealers. Not sure I would trust them.
Edmund's will tell you what people in your area are paying for the exact car you are looking at, including options. Instead if worrying about dealer profit, just try to pay less than everyone else. Stand firm, and see what happens.
If you're wanting a 4x4, most Rangers/Tacomas/etc are going to be knocking the door on 40 if not over. Can get it down quite a bit by going 2wd.
If you're paying dealer invoice for a new car, the dealer is making a decent profit on the new car. Also, in addition to used cars, dealers also make a lot of money on financing, addons (rustproofing, dealer pretp, etc. - NEVER pay for a dealer addon unless it's something you specifically request), and service dept.
Consumer Reports or Edmunds should have pretty decent information about true dealer cost, although I think CR may use TruCar
Consumer Reports or Edmunds should have pretty decent information about true dealer cost, although I think CR may use TruCar
Might can join a facebook group or online forum and find decent information. I wouldn't trust everything you read - there are always going to be people, for whatever reason, that claim they got a way better deal than anyone else. But you should get reasonably good info on what others are paying.
And of course get a few quotes from multiple dealerships. Some won't respond to online requests - they'll ask you to call or come to the dealership, but others have people dedicated to nothing but online sales. That will at least give you something to compare.
And of course get a few quotes from multiple dealerships. Some won't respond to online requests - they'll ask you to call or come to the dealership, but others have people dedicated to nothing but online sales. That will at least give you something to compare.
You have retail price, invoice price, hold back price, and volume incentives.
Retail price is between .5% to 6% markup over invoice. Base model cars may have $500 to $1000 markup. Pickups a little more, usually $800 to $1800 on base.
Hold back is usually $500 to $1100 or so.
Volume incentives are strictly new cars and the lowest is around 35 or 40 cars minimum. Your big outfits that sell 250+ new a month make $1000.00 or a little more off volume per unit. Dealers will not get into volume incentive money unless your the car that kicks them up a level.
I posted this before, but the best time to buy a truck is either truck month in spring or October in fall. Those are the biggest rebate months. October is normally the best because the new model year is out. Buy the old model year.
Resale value is most impacted by mileage the first 4 years, so the old year model puts you at a mileage advantage for next trade. If you cannot afford a 60 month payment, it is too much vehicle for you. Buy something you can pay in 60 months max.
If you work the system correctly, buy 60 months, trade in October on current year model, this maximizes rebates, mileage, resale and by the third trade you should be financing only 50% of the new vehicle each time. This means you keep in a new vehicle and keep a low payment.
And Edmund's is still the best, but they try to trick you on their website into sending an inquiry to whatever dealer is paying them advertising.
Retail price is between .5% to 6% markup over invoice. Base model cars may have $500 to $1000 markup. Pickups a little more, usually $800 to $1800 on base.
Hold back is usually $500 to $1100 or so.
Volume incentives are strictly new cars and the lowest is around 35 or 40 cars minimum. Your big outfits that sell 250+ new a month make $1000.00 or a little more off volume per unit. Dealers will not get into volume incentive money unless your the car that kicks them up a level.
I posted this before, but the best time to buy a truck is either truck month in spring or October in fall. Those are the biggest rebate months. October is normally the best because the new model year is out. Buy the old model year.
Resale value is most impacted by mileage the first 4 years, so the old year model puts you at a mileage advantage for next trade. If you cannot afford a 60 month payment, it is too much vehicle for you. Buy something you can pay in 60 months max.
If you work the system correctly, buy 60 months, trade in October on current year model, this maximizes rebates, mileage, resale and by the third trade you should be financing only 50% of the new vehicle each time. This means you keep in a new vehicle and keep a low payment.
And Edmund's is still the best, but they try to trick you on their website into sending an inquiry to whatever dealer is paying them advertising.
Poor bastards.... New car dealers work on single digit margins and every customer wants a 15% discount.
Look at internet pricing in bigger cities (Atlanta, Houston, Dallas)That usually is as good as it gets. There are dozens of competitors in town and the dealerships add in every incentive to get bodies in the door. You can get pretty close to identifying a lowest possible selling price by doing that...
Timing is critical. If the manufacturer is not offering rebates, you are not going to get very much help. Memorial Day is the next opportunity for big sales and rebates historically. By all accounts, pickup demand is through the roof so don't expect much help this year. No reason to put big rebates out there if you can sell all you can make.
ETA. I am sitting at my desk and pulled my sakes order on my truck. Don't ever let anyone tell you that buying new is a mistake. They always tell you that you lose 10-15% when you drive off the lot... Yeah, based in MSRP.
I have lost $8k in value from what I paid vs what it's worth 4 years and 78k miles later. If I sold it today and someone drove it another 4 years and 78k they would lose twice as much in value.... Now if I had paid list I would be almost $20 k down...
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Patience is a virtue when buying a vehicle.. if you can wait. Don't get hung up on interest rates. They barely move the needle. $5k rebates are sher it's at.
I'm eyeballing a new F150 hybrid with the built in 7KW generator. But I will probably wait until 2022-23 for some deals to come back around.
Look at internet pricing in bigger cities (Atlanta, Houston, Dallas)That usually is as good as it gets. There are dozens of competitors in town and the dealerships add in every incentive to get bodies in the door. You can get pretty close to identifying a lowest possible selling price by doing that...
Timing is critical. If the manufacturer is not offering rebates, you are not going to get very much help. Memorial Day is the next opportunity for big sales and rebates historically. By all accounts, pickup demand is through the roof so don't expect much help this year. No reason to put big rebates out there if you can sell all you can make.
ETA. I am sitting at my desk and pulled my sakes order on my truck. Don't ever let anyone tell you that buying new is a mistake. They always tell you that you lose 10-15% when you drive off the lot... Yeah, based in MSRP.
I have lost $8k in value from what I paid vs what it's worth 4 years and 78k miles later. If I sold it today and someone drove it another 4 years and 78k they would lose twice as much in value.... Now if I had paid list I would be almost $20 k down...
View attachment 19686
View attachment 19687
Patience is a virtue when buying a vehicle.. if you can wait. Don't get hung up on interest rates. They barely move the needle. $5k rebates are sher it's at.
I'm eyeballing a new F150 hybrid with the built in 7KW generator. But I will probably wait until 2022-23 for some deals to come back around.
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I call around tell them exactly what I want. I tell them I’m calling around and what’s their best offer out the door - no BS. No financing. No add on warranty. I’ll bring them a check.
I do my research and get an idea of typical discounts. I shop online and go in asking about a specific truck on the lot that is what I want. I have a number. Tell them what it is up front and cut out all the BS. The goal in negotiations is find a number where both parties find value, not to try to screw the car salesman out of every last penny you can. Look outside your radius. I've found that in some places (LA and TX), online stated prices are cheaper than I could negotiate in Jackson. They also had more stock and likely are just doing so much volume that they cut out negotiation time and just sell cars. Don't be afraid to drive a few hours to save big. In some cases, it's cheaper to get a one way flight to DFW area and buy.
I'm kind of the same, you have to be knowledgeable about the vehicles and do your homework first like you said.
I always have a vehicle that I want with the online paperwork, but, several others as much like it as possible from other dealers w/ that paperwork. I'm NEVER so in love w/ any one that I have to get that particular one either. When the salesman comes running out the door and ask if they can help me, I tell them only if they can negotiate w/ me, otherwise I tell them thanks but no thanks and go to the sales manager that usually is sitting in some elevated throne position on the showroom floor. I tell him which one I want and tell them he has one shot at a price, no offer/counter offer crap. If its good, I'll accept it. If not, I'm out the door to "go see one of these" and show them my stack of alternatives. Get a bottom line out the door price too that includes EVERYTHING like doc fees, window VIN etching, warranty's, floor mats, extra keys, etc, everything. If the number you get from the business manager is any different from the sales managers, tell him its wrong and he needs to redo it. The last 3 vehicles I bought were done like this w/ no bickering, dickering, etc. It was quick, painless, and I will definitely go back to them again.
You have to be able to say no and walk, otherwise they have you by the nuts. I had a manager tell me at the old Blackwell Chevrolet in Jackson "Mr Peeper, I don't think you really want to buy a vehicle". I got up and walked out with him following me the whole way apologizing. I went across town to Rogers Dabbs and bought one there. After picking it up next day I drove straight back to Blackwell and went inside. That manager saw me and said, ahh Mr Peeper I figured you'd be back. I said yes you were right, I wanted to show you the vehicle I just bought across town because they did business w/ me like I requested. I pointed it out to him and turned around and walked out for the 2nd and last time.
Never, ever give them your real phone number. You will forever get calls from them as well as extended warranty offers from dozens of companies if you do. I have a burner number that does work w/ wifi, but I don't ever use it for anything. Give them one like that you can get from the Apple store or Google Play.
If you are financing, go in w/ a letter from a credit union in your folder basically stating that you are pre-approved for financing. My credit union is always better than any rate they can offer unless its one of their 0% deals but even then, their vehicle price is typically loaded w/ the finance charge they are giving up. When dealer asks if you are financing tell them no its cash, because, in essence it is. They will be given a check from the credit union so its like cash to them. My credit union goes as low as 1.49% - 1.99% now on anything less than 66 months if your credit is A+. If its not, sorry.....In my opinion you shouldn't go more than 12-24 months anyway.
If they ask if you are trading anything in, tell them you haven't decided. I usually do trade but never until I've agreed on the new vehicle. I can't stand for people to come look at a vehicle I'm selling. They don't show up, they are late, they want to use your bathroom, they say crap like this is the LE edition, I thought yours was the XL edition. No, the photos and description clearly show what it is. Its not worth my time to go through that and then have them say they only have a thousand less than your "Firm Price". Good Luck!
I always have a vehicle that I want with the online paperwork, but, several others as much like it as possible from other dealers w/ that paperwork. I'm NEVER so in love w/ any one that I have to get that particular one either. When the salesman comes running out the door and ask if they can help me, I tell them only if they can negotiate w/ me, otherwise I tell them thanks but no thanks and go to the sales manager that usually is sitting in some elevated throne position on the showroom floor. I tell him which one I want and tell them he has one shot at a price, no offer/counter offer crap. If its good, I'll accept it. If not, I'm out the door to "go see one of these" and show them my stack of alternatives. Get a bottom line out the door price too that includes EVERYTHING like doc fees, window VIN etching, warranty's, floor mats, extra keys, etc, everything. If the number you get from the business manager is any different from the sales managers, tell him its wrong and he needs to redo it. The last 3 vehicles I bought were done like this w/ no bickering, dickering, etc. It was quick, painless, and I will definitely go back to them again.
You have to be able to say no and walk, otherwise they have you by the nuts. I had a manager tell me at the old Blackwell Chevrolet in Jackson "Mr Peeper, I don't think you really want to buy a vehicle". I got up and walked out with him following me the whole way apologizing. I went across town to Rogers Dabbs and bought one there. After picking it up next day I drove straight back to Blackwell and went inside. That manager saw me and said, ahh Mr Peeper I figured you'd be back. I said yes you were right, I wanted to show you the vehicle I just bought across town because they did business w/ me like I requested. I pointed it out to him and turned around and walked out for the 2nd and last time.
Never, ever give them your real phone number. You will forever get calls from them as well as extended warranty offers from dozens of companies if you do. I have a burner number that does work w/ wifi, but I don't ever use it for anything. Give them one like that you can get from the Apple store or Google Play.
If you are financing, go in w/ a letter from a credit union in your folder basically stating that you are pre-approved for financing. My credit union is always better than any rate they can offer unless its one of their 0% deals but even then, their vehicle price is typically loaded w/ the finance charge they are giving up. When dealer asks if you are financing tell them no its cash, because, in essence it is. They will be given a check from the credit union so its like cash to them. My credit union goes as low as 1.49% - 1.99% now on anything less than 66 months if your credit is A+. If its not, sorry.....In my opinion you shouldn't go more than 12-24 months anyway.
If they ask if you are trading anything in, tell them you haven't decided. I usually do trade but never until I've agreed on the new vehicle. I can't stand for people to come look at a vehicle I'm selling. They don't show up, they are late, they want to use your bathroom, they say crap like this is the LE edition, I thought yours was the XL edition. No, the photos and description clearly show what it is. Its not worth my time to go through that and then have them say they only have a thousand less than your "Firm Price". Good Luck!
Agree about trading. After we finish the price of the new car, I tell them to give me a price on the trade. They'll usually come in under the NADA trade for my car in excellent condition, so I show them the NADA trade value and tell them that's what I'll trade it for, and they take it. I know I could get a little more selling it myself, but it's not even close to being worth the trouble for me. But some people love buying and selling cars individually, and if you do, that's definitely the way to go.
This. Dealers make money on used cars and new car volume. Sometimes, especially end of quarter and end of year, dealers will receive incentives from the manufacturers that allows more room for deal making.
I just bought a used 4x4 colorado for my kid and I got really lucky. These small trucks are super hard to find and super expensive. The Tacomas and the Rangers are particularly overpriced for what you get.
Really just depends on how old the car is. We usually keep our car a pretty good while and dealers aren't pumped about our car, so we gain a few thousand by selling ourselves. We might could go to a used car only lot and get closer to what we can sell for individually. Not sure.
If I know I'm trading for a new vehicle, I'll let them go ahead and give me their trade value. I go in already knowing roughly what the value is, so I know right away what I'm dealing with if they lowball me, and if it's a dealer I want to work with. Essentially, I treat it as a test.
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