Question for the board....

[thekimmer]

The general consensus is that Ben Howland is on the hot seat but should be given one more year to show he can get the job done.

How often does a coach in that situation actually get it done and save his job? My perception is that it is very rare.

 

[Willow Grove Dawg]

Stansbury 2003-2004 but it is rare. The Lawrence Roberts transfer was a once in a lifetime situation.

 

[CochiseCowbell]

Stansbury 2003-2004 but it is rare. The Lawrence Roberts transfer was a once in a lifetime situation.

Back then he was only allowed to transfer and not sit out due to a murder of a teammate, right? Wasn't that Baylor?

 

[mstateglfr]

How many more years must a coach stay for the job to be saved? Serious question- if its another 8 years, then yeah I bet its rare. If its another 3 years, I could see it happening more frequently.

 

[thekimmer]

Stansbury 2003-2004 but it is rare. The Lawrence Roberts transfer was a once in a lifetime situation.

You know for me its the fact that I have watched the guy coach for 6 years and see the same thing every year. Some years better than others but every year incredibly inconsistent with moments of inexplicable ineptitude at the worst possible times. Why would I expect anything different next year and if so why wait to move on?

 

[Seinfeld]

Good question, but I think a tough one to answer. Sometimes these situations pop up after a coach has only has a couple seasons, and you’re dealing with a very impatient fanbase. In those cases, I don’t think it’s that rare for a coach to show progress and keep his job.

When dealing with a coach that’s headed into year 7, though, I feel like you know what you’ve got at that point. If what he’s done thus far isn’t cutting it, chances are slim that things are gonna suddenly turn around. The big question, though, is what is enough for next year? Cohen loves to talk about trends, and if we win a few more games next year, is all good? Do we have to make the dance?

I don’t think Howland is terrible by any stretch, but I’ve seen enough to feel like I know what we’re getting most years, and with all due respect to our guys, he’s no longer exactly setting the world on fire in recruiting. I also don’t get the feeling that Cohen sets the bar real high for anyone, so something tells me that as long as the team doesn’t go winless next year or starts fighting in the locker room, Howland’s here as long as he wants to be

 

[mstateglfr]

Back then he was only allowed to transfer and not sit out due to a murder of a teammate, right? Wasn't that Baylor?

Yeah, all the Baylor players were allowed to play right away at new schools. The school actually requested their players not be penalized with having to sit out a year. 4 players left(I think?) with John Lucas II being the other star to leave as he helped take OkieSt to the Final4.

That cover-up of Dennehy was insane. Looking into it over the following year resulted in so many penalties.
- the coach, Bliss, had a 10 year show cause.
- Baylor lost the entire non-conference of one of their seasons. They just werent allowed to play any games.
- 2 stars left the program. One led a team to a Final4 and the other was a national All American, conference POY, and helped his team win the conference.
- Baylor didnt have a winning season for 5 or 6 years.
- player payments were discovered.
- coaching staff told players to lie about the murder and make the dead kid seem like the bad guy.
- failed drug tests were covered up.

I am guessing more happened too, but its been a bit since it happened.


Scott Drew took was was probably the worst major college basketball job at the time and has turned it completely around with multiple solid draft picks and multiple highly successful seasons.

 

[johnson86-1]

How many more years must a coach stay for the job to be saved? Serious question- if its another 8 years, then yeah I bet its rare. If its another 3 years, I could see it happening more frequently.

Just needs to get off the hot seat. That's somewhat subjective though. One good year and then reverting back to a **** show (e.g., Croom 2007 & 2008) makes it clear one year doesn't really get you off the hot seat. Miles was constantly saving his job but not actually getting off the hotseat.

 

[kired]

Stans was on the hot seat then? After back to back NCAA appearances?

I was a student at the time and didn't keep up with coaching drama back then, but honestly don't remember people calling for him to be fired.

 

[57stratdawg]

2014 was a 'put up or shut up' year for Mullen. 2011 - 2013 had been a bit underwhelming and people were excited about finally seeing Dak take over the offense. If we would have gone 6-6 that year, it would have been ugly.

 

[dorndawg]

Stans was on the hot seat then? After back to back NCAA appearances?

I was a student at the time and didn't keep up with coaching drama back then, but honestly don't remember people calling for him to be fired.

Same, my recollection from that era was near-universal satisfaction with Stans. He wasn't really yet catching heat for not advancing to Sweet 16; in fact 2001-2005 was the era he earned that criticism.

1998–99	Mississippi State	20–13	8–8	T–3rd <small>(West)</small>	NIT First Round
1999–00	Mississippi State	14–16	5–11	T–5th <small>(West)</small>
2000–01	Mississippi State	18–13	7–9	T–4th <small>(West)</small>	NIT Quarterfinal
2001–02	Mississippi State	27–8	10–6	2nd <small>(West)</small>	NCAA Round of 32
2002–03	Mississippi State	21–10	9–7	1st <small>(West)</small>	NCAA Round of 64
2003–04	Mississippi State	26–4	14–2	1st <small>(West)</small>	NCAA Round of 32
2004–05	Mississippi State	23–11	9–7	3rd <small>(West)</small>	NCAA Round of 32
2005–06	Mississippi State	15–15	5–11	5th<small>(West)</small>
2006–07	Mississippi State	21–14	8–8	T–1st <small>(West)</small>	NIT Semifinal
2007–08	Mississippi State	23–11	12–4	1st <small>(West)</small>	NCAA Round of 32
2008–09	Mississippi State	23–13	9–7	3rd <small>(West)</small>	NCAA Round of 64
2009–10	Mississippi State	24–12	9–7	T–1st <small>(West)</small>	NIT Second Round
2010–11	Mississippi State	17–13	9–7	2nd <small>(West)</small>
2011–12	Mississippi State	21–12	8–8	T–6th	NIT First Round
Mississippi State:	293–165 (.640)	122–102 (.545)

<tbody>
</tbody>

 

[Russ Wheeler]

2014 was a 'put up or shut up' year for Mullen. 2011 - 2013 had been a bit underwhelming and people were excited about finally seeing Dak take over the offense. If we would have gone 6-6 that year, it would have been ugly.

Dan Mullen was not on the hot seat going into 2014. Everybody with a fully functional brain knew we had a caged monster brewing that offseason. 6-6 was never a real option.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

Stans was on the hot seat then? After back to back NCAA appearances?

I was a student at the time and didn't keep up with coaching drama back then, but honestly don't remember people calling for him to be fired.

He wasn't, it's asinine to think so. There were some rumblings about bad coaching in that 2000-2001 season in a class that I can recall, but no one was truly serious.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

Chances are, said coach (I mean your theoretical coach here, which includes Howland) will probably finish short of ultimate expectations but still not bad enough to fire him. So the AD has to ultimately decide what they want, and act accordingly.

 

[TheStateUofMS]

I think it's time to move on. We had no talent when he got here and we were terrible. Now we have talent and we're respectable but constantly underachieving and inconsistent.

I'd move on.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

I think it's time to move on. We had no talent when he got here and we were terrible. Now we have talent and we're respectable but constantly underachieving and inconsistent.

I'd move on.

It is particularly maddening to watch talent underachieve, at any level of sports.

 

[maroonmania]

Stansbury 2003-2004 but it is rare. The Lawrence Roberts transfer was a once in a lifetime situation.

Stansbury was by no means on the hot seat coming into 2003-2004. He had just been to back to back NCAA tournaments in 01-02 and 02-03.

 

[johnson86-1]

It is particularly maddening to watch talent underachieve, at any level of sports.

It's maddening, but people need to keep some perspective. We are not likely to upgrade when we replace Howland. We might, but we are still punching above our weight as he underperforms with talent. We were tied for fourth in the SEC last year while underachieving. We were tied for 6th the year before in a very strong year for the SEC. We're likely to finish somewhere are 9th or 10th this year, which is not good, but if that's a down year and we're back in the top 5 next year, then that's still not bad.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

It's maddening, but people need to keep some perspective. We are not likely to upgrade when we replace Howland. We might, but we are still punching above our weight as he underperforms with talent. We were tied for fourth in the SEC last year while underachieving. We were tied for 6th the year before in a very strong year for the SEC. We're likely to finish somewhere are 9th or 10th this year, which is not good, but if that's a down year and we're back in the top 5 next year, then that's still not bad.

I agree. All of it goes into the equation. Seems like the best thing would be for him to hire some good assistants, but of course they aren't coming if the head guy is on the hot seat.

 

[DAWG61]

I think you're a year ahead in your timeline. Next year he'll be on the hot seat. We just lost to the #6 team in the country by 5 points. Things aren't nearly as bad as this board portrays every third game.

 

[Willow Grove Dawg]

LT a let him go into the 03-04 season on the last year of his contract because he had not renewed him the previous two seasons & Stans hired Jimmy Sexton as his agent over the summer of 03.

 

[57stratdawg]

If we play the 2014 season out with the same results, but in reverse order, the perception of that season would be shockingly different. Start off with 1-3 and that TAM, Auburn, LSU run would have been against +/- .500 teams. There's certainly no GameDay in Starkville, no #1 ranking.

 

[BonzoGoesToCollege]

It's maddening, but people need to keep some perspective. We are not likely to upgrade when we replace Howland.

Why couldn't we upgrade? Bama couldn't give 2 ***** about basketball, but they seem to have found a young, energetic coach (from Buffalo mind you) who seems willing to adapt to the changes in the game. Howland isn't gonna win in today's environment playing 2 bigs who have absolutely zero range. It's a guard oriented game today, but Howland still wants to play inside out. He needs to start recruiting some shooters. Or maybe we have shooters, but his offensive sets don't get them decent looks enough. I'm just ready to try something different.

 

[patdog]

I wouldn't say we're punching above our weight with a losing SEC record, and only 0-1 in the NCAA tournament in 6 years. But we're certainly not punching much below it. As frustrating as it is, I think we have to keep him, for now.

 

[thekimmer]

I think you're a year ahead in your timeline. Next year he'll be on the hot seat. We just lost to the #6 team in the country by 5 points. Things aren't nearly as bad as this board portrays every third game.

You cite one game where we lose close to #6 as evidence things aren't so bad while ignoring the multiple head scratching virtual no-shows against terrible teams that have taken place this season and for the last 6 seasons. You can define the 'hot seat' any way you want I suppose but I think the fact that pretty much every media outlet and message board have questioned whether a guy should be given another year or not qualifies as the hot seat.

 

[57stratdawg]

But he's going to return in 2021-2022 unless he decides otherwise. Howland needs to put up some results next year, I think he would even tell you that, but there is no serious conversation right now about firing Ben Howland in the next 3 or 4 weeks. Nor should there be.

 

[hailstate19]

Good question, but I think a tough one to answer. Sometimes these situations pop up after a coach has only has a couple seasons, and you’re dealing with a very impatient fanbase. In those cases, I don’t think it’s that rare for a coach to show progress and keep his job.

When dealing with a coach that’s headed into year 7, though, I feel like you know what you’ve got at that point. If what he’s done thus far isn’t cutting it, chances are slim that things are gonna suddenly turn around. The big question, though, is what is enough for next year? Cohen loves to talk about trends, and if we win a few more games next year, is all good? Do we have to make the dance?

I don’t think Howland is terrible by any stretch, but I’ve seen enough to feel like I know what we’re getting most years, and with all due respect to our guys, he’s no longer exactly setting the world on fire in recruiting. I also don’t get the feeling that Cohen sets the bar real high for anyone, so something tells me that as long as the team doesn’t go winless next year or starts fighting in the locker room, Howland’s here as long as he wants to be

Howland has to be gone if he doesn’t make the tournament next year. He barely saved his job this year. If we would have kept loosing after Vandy I think the small fanbase that’s left would be steaming mad right now. its do or die time very soon.

 

[TheStateUofMS]

That's what makes the situation suck. We def wouldn't hire someone anyone has ever heard of. That could be a good thing, but it's a crap shoot. The teams sucks now though. I never watch games anymore. To me there's no where to go but up.

 

[thatsbaseball]

We should have his retirement portfolio in decent shape by now **

 

[Faustdog]

Stansbury 2003-2004 but it is rare. The Lawrence Roberts transfer was a once in a lifetime situation.

Stans was in no way on the hot seat heading into the 03-04 season. We had a lot of momentum from the previous two seasons and were feeling pretty good about our program.

 

[johnson86-1]

Why couldn't we upgrade? Bama couldn't give 2 ***** about basketball, but they seem to have found a young, energetic coach (from Buffalo mind you) who seems willing to adapt to the changes in the game. Howland isn't gonna win in today's environment playing 2 bigs who have absolutely zero range. It's a guard oriented game today, but Howland still wants to play inside out. He needs to start recruiting some shooters. Or maybe we have shooters, but his offensive sets don't get them decent looks enough. I'm just ready to try something different.

We could upgrade, it's just that the odds are against it. Football may be king in the SEC, but basketball is still a huge money generator. It's not like nobody in the SEC is trying. Lots of schools have made hires and tried to get their basketball team better. It's just not that easy to go pick out a coach that's going to be a top 3 or 4 SEC head coach.

 

[trob115]

Best case scenario, Howland take us to the NCAA tourney next season.

Upon the completion of the season, he retires. This will make our job more appealing to any potential coaches.

I know for a fact Howland is contemplating retiring this year, but have been told next year is more likely.

 

[DAWG61]

I haven't seen one media outlet let alone every media outlet ponder his future here. We gave Stansbury 14 years despite a bazillion no shows and him kicking off an entire roster of college all-stars basically just because he didn't like them. Giving Howland half as long isn't unreasonable.

 

[Go Budaw]

Here’s 3 or 4 just from MSU that come to mind where they actually delivered.

Jackie in 1997.

Stansbury in 2002.

Mullen in 2017 (arguable that his seat was that hot, but there’s at least some chance he gets canned with back to back losing seasons after the 2013-2015 run and the fiasco that ensued with his job hunting after 2015).

Cohen in 2011.

 

[preacher_dawg]

I don't think Mullen was ever on the hot seat, but I remember starting a thread if there has ever been a coach that saw a downward spiral and was able to successfully right the ship. The only coach that was mentioned was Dabo. I would actually add Mullen to that list. Again, not that he was on the hotlist, but the program took a dip then came back up.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

I don't think Mullen was ever on the hot seat, but I remember starting a thread if there has ever been a coach that saw a downward spiral and was able to successfully right the ship. The only coach that was mentioned was Dabo. I would actually add Mullen to that list. Again, not that he was on the hotlist, but the program took a dip then came back up.

Haha yeah Dabo was on the hot seat for like 3 straight years. He finally rose up one year and had that 'West Virginia just scored again game" and then they about turned him loose. Wow at the mistake that would have been. I remember their fanbase was already tired of Bowden, so Dabo entered into the hot seat automatically. He was also getting his *** kicked by South Carolina. I have no idea how he survived.

 

[UpTheMiddlex3Punt]

I hate to mention the guy in a positive way, but Tommy Tuberville at Auburn is one instance where it did work out. They wanted him gone before the 2003 Iron Bowl and almost ousted him if the media didn't find out about it. 2004 was definitely a put up or shut up year for him and he won. He managed to have a few more great years before getting Croomed in 2008 (while Saban was on the rapid rise).

 

[PineGroveBully]

Bliss was ignorant**

 

[Go Budaw]

If we play the 2014 season out with the same results, but in reverse order, the perception of that season would be shockingly different. Start off with 1-3 and that TAM, Auburn, LSU run would have been against +/- .500 teams. There's certainly no GameDay in Starkville, no #1 ranking.

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, the 2014 team was largely just the 2013 team with a much, much better schedule.

If you take the 2013 team / schedule and change the following:
- Swap a Top 5 USCe for an awful Vandy team
- Swap Oklahoma State for a directional patsy (South Alabama, etc.)
- Swap Auburn away (which we had in the bag until the last second) for Auburn at home
- Swap TAMU away vs. Manziel (only lost by 10 and that was with Dak exiting early) for TAMU without Manziel at home

Do all that, and 2013 and 2014 schedules are equal, and 2013 would have been a 10-2 regular season....without question. 2014 team was marginally better overall based on increased experience, but it just goes to show how big of an impact on perception that the schedule can make in college football.