Damn look at Bitcoin today

[mstateglfr]

Bitcoin does all of that. And you don’t have to melt it to divide it.

I am not defending gold, but your claim that bitcoin 'does all of that' is ********. Did you not read my post or are you just too excited to equate the two that you didn't think it thru?

Bitcoin doesn't have historical value, which is a main reason for gold's appeal. It's worth something because its been worth something.
Bitcoin is a terrible currency right now due to its volatility. Like seriously terrible currency. I buy a $30000 car with it and suddenly the dealer has effectively sold 20 cars based on recent value...or the dealer has effectively given me a car based on value a couple years ago.
Bitcoin, in its current state, is not a convenient or good currency. It simply isn't.


Again, I'm not defending gold here. I'm fine with us having moved off the gold standard half a century ago or whenever it was. Our monetary system being representative and tied to a physical commodity has clear limitations and drawbacks.
But as of now, bitcoin isn't the answer to our monetary system's current issues because it is not a good currency. Perhaps it will become one in the future though.

 

[JungRebel]

ETH has been a nice find, as has ALGO, but I admit I'm not cut out for this market like the Hodlers are. I would wait to sink betting money into it until a correction. I'm not worried about that correction never coming, as I was probably too late getting in to begin with in that case.

 

[Jeffreauxdawg]

People asking the wrong questions IMO. The more important question is “what do large institutions think a Bitcoin is worth”. Lot of recent articles and statements by fund investors may give a hint.

They seem to think it's worth taking a .5% position in and that has created a run that would make The South Sea company blush.

I will feel better when I see the price action after someone threatens a big bitcoin exchange like Coinbase. These big investors don't really have a clue whether or not bitcoin can be stolen, but just imagine the reaction if some group like Anonymous said they will steal all your bitcoin in a week.... That's the risk.

You want to steal gold, you better bring a 10,000 man army... Crypto currency could theoretically disappear with a keystroke. That fear is going to be hard to overcome.

 

[Jeffreauxdawg]

Just as a reminder. BTC has crossed it's 200 day moving average 9 times in the past 2 years. So it will likely do so again soon... The 200 day SMA us currently at 13559. The 50 day is at 21... One thing to know about all of these institutional investors... They are actually institutional traders.

 

[JenBielema]

Yes. If you have $100m of gold, that would be possible

I am not defending gold, but your claim that bitcoin 'does all of that' is ********. Did you not read my post or are you just too excited to equate the two that you didn't think it thru?

Bitcoin doesn't have historical value, which is a main reason for gold's appeal. It's worth something because its been worth something.
Bitcoin is a terrible currency right now due to its volatility. Like seriously terrible currency. I buy a $30000 car with it and suddenly the dealer has effectively sold 20 cars based on recent value...or the dealer has effectively given me a car based on value a couple years ago.
Bitcoin, in its current state, is not a convenient or good currency. It simply isn't.


Again, I'm not defending gold here. I'm fine with us having moved off the gold standard half a century ago or whenever it was. Our monetary system being representative and tied to a physical commodity has clear limitations and drawbacks.
But as of now, bitcoin isn't the answer to our monetary system's current issues because it is not a good currency. Perhaps it will become one in the future though.

Bitcoin is a commodity

 

[bsquared24]

To me those who dismiss crypto thinking it's a currency are missing the mark. Crypto, especially dollar pegged, is more like a market be it corn, pork, real estate, Nasdaq and you are playing the market. Some investors are sophisticated in meat prices, some crypto, etc. To me the "stock market" is essentially a bubble, built on a bubble, built on a bubble to the point that it may or may not be more unstable than the crypto market or some crop that is weather dependent. I personally don't invest in crypto for the same reason I don't invest in real estate, I don't feel I have the sophistication to do it well.

 

[Apoplectic_Objurgator]

Damn ETH up 33% at this very minute. I read today that these gains are not from retail investors it’s mostly from institutions

 

[Nicephorus]

Care to summarize them and give a link?

The most extreme prediction I've seen is Guggenheim claiming 400k and JPM claiming even higher if Bitcoin is treated similar to gold.

https://markets.businessinsider.com...ggenheim-scott-minerd-says-2020-12-1029901347
https://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/1377180/bitcoin-price-latest-tim-draper-jp-morgan-estimate-max-keiser

Interestingly enough, Guggenheim hasn't been able to actually buy any yet due to waiting on SEC approval so missed the most recent run up.

https://twitter.com/MacroScope17/status/1342917031847473153?s=20

I'm assuming they hedged their position with Greyscale bitcoin trust (GBTC) before making comments like this though. GBTC trust inflows are also a good indication as it is probably the easiest way for institutions to get BTC exposure albeit at a roughly 20% premium. At one point, GBTC was basically buying the entire mined new bitcoin supply generated each day. Maybe still is. Haven't checked recently.

Stanley Druckenmiller and some other prominent investors have also said they are starting to shift a small portion of their net worth in bitcoin. Keep in mind, these people aren't going all in. Just putting a small % as an inflationary hedge. Some think bitcoin presents a better potential upside compared to gold and want exposure to both.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/billyb...-calling-it-better-than-gold/?sh=72d871fc222f

IMO Ethereum is going up because it is next on the list for institutions and has lots more utility compared to BTC "store of value". Good analogy I read is to think of bitcoin as "e-mail" and Eth as "internet". Both transformative technologies, but one much more complex. Ethereum CME futures go live in Feb, also generating a lot of speculative interest.

https://www.cmegroup.com/media-room...oup_to_launchetherfuturesonfebruary82021.html

For comparison, BTC futures launched in 12/17/17.

As I've mentioned before, real catalyst driving ethereum is decentralized finance (DeFi) and the rise of "productive assets". Basically, you want to be holding crypto that can generate revenue. This is basically a complex financial game for computer nerds at this point. Here's a series of quick videos going over some of the basics if anyone is interested.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaDcID4s1KronHMKojfjwiHL0DdQEPDcq

My positioning is probably much more aggressive and complex than most posting here as I have a lot of "house money" after doing several multiples since originally posting about this stuff back in this summer.

https://forums.sixpackspeak.com/showthread.php?214736-Weekly-Market-Update&p=1806010&viewfull=1#post1806010

I'm in bitcoin, ethereum, smattering of defi tokens, and stable coins with some of these assets tied up in high interest liquidity pools (yield farming). Personally, I felt buying bitcoin under 13k with my defi profits after "defi summer" was a sure thing back in October given prevailing macroeconomic narratives with US economy. Current market is very uncertain to me now we've broken BTC all time highs and has re-entered "price discover". Just keep in mind bitcoin is the high tide that lifts all boats in crypto, at least for now.

Ultimately, in my opinion, crypto outside of maybe bitcoin is a game of managing "fat tail risk". You never go all in, you're playing for multiples at the expense of losing 50-95% of your investment depending on the risk you take (bitcoin to ethereum to altcoins, from lowest to highest R/R). R/R very similar to being a seed or angel investor when you get to the altcoin side. I could probably write another page or two about this stuff so need to stop somewhere.

 

[Quincy A. Wagstaff]

Care to summarize them and give a link?

"Bitcoin is money, everything else is credit."
- JP Morgan, 1912

 

[Russ Wheeler]

google blockchain and read about the technology that bitcoin created. it's all about the technology behind the blockchain. it's complicated, but that's where the value is and bitcoin just happened to be the first crypto currency and it created the blockchain. that's what the banks are scared of. THE BLOCKCHAIN. i haven't seen very much discussion about it on here. i really don't like getting into talking about bitcoin and this will probably be my last post about it ever bc im sick and tired of explaining it trying to help people make some money only to be told that they checked with their buddies that know what they are talking about and that it's just a fad. i know that seemed like a rant. im just saying though. i've been trying to tell people for years and they basically laughed at my face.

Agreed. I bought a few shares of some blockchain and weed funds a couple of years back in my play around stock account, because I figured it'd eventually go up. Hasn't really done it yet, but I figure it's coming.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Sounds like something the creator of the Fed

"Bitcoin is money, everything else is credit.j"
- JP Morgan, 1912

Would say. +1

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

Let me ask this question from a place of admitted ignorance. If the electrical grid went down for a month, a year, a week, however long really would Bitcoin still exist? Obviously that scenario would present all sorts of other issues, but as an uninformed idiot, the fact that gold would still exist in that scenario makes it more valuable.

 

[Quincy A. Wagstaff]

Let me ask this question from a place of admitted ignorance. If the electrical grid went down for a month, a year, a week, however long really would Bitcoin still exist? Obviously that scenario would present all sorts of other issues, but as an uninformed idiot, the fact that gold would still exist in that scenario makes it more valuable.

Think of Bitcoin as a ledger. I have a copy. You have a copy. There are copies on every continent on Earth and in space. Bitcoin will exist as long as at least one copy of the ledger exists.

I run a full Bitcoin node. I lost electricity on New Year's Eve. My copy of the ledger wasn't lost. My power came back on, and my node synced with the network.

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

I get that. I guess I'm just hesitant to treat it like gold because gold exists outside of any network. You can hold gold, silver, jewels, etc. in your hand. You can visit or live on real estate that you own. Bitcoin feels like an idea. Something that can never be held in your hand and it's valuable but only in theory. Again, I am ignorant. These are just my thoughts.

 

[mstateglfr]

I get that. I guess I'm just hesitant to treat it like gold because gold exists outside of any network. You can hold gold, silver, jewels, etc. in your hand. You can visit or live on real estate that you own. Bitcoin feels like an idea. Something that can never be held in your hand and it's valuable but only in theory. Again, I am ignorant. These are just my thoughts.

You arent ignorant, you just clearly arent an early adopter of blockchain!
All your concerns are very much legitimate in that it will take explaining these things to all the non-nerds in life for blockchain to work on a large scale.

As it is, I barely touch any of the money I have- I use a card and it transfers money I have never held out of my possession and into a store's possession. So in that respect, bitcoin isnt really far off from how many currently manage their finances(they dont hold their assets in their hands). Cell phone tap to pay, paypal transactions over the internet, credit/debit cards- all these transfer something I am not holding away from me in exchange for goods and services.

But again- all this is a theory until bitcoin is no longer volatile as 17. Its a speculative investment and not a legitimate currency right now, even if some people are willing to accept payment for goods and services in the form of bitcoin.

The concept of bitcoin as a legitimate investment is really difficult to get on board with. Bitcoin isnt making anything that you can value and compare to competition like Ford or Chevy. Bitcoin isnt providing cloud storage and innovating ecommerce like Amazon. There is nothing tangible to hold that was made by bitcoin and bitcoin isnt creating revenue streams- so its tough for a lot of simple folk(me included) looking at it and thinking it makes sense to invest my hard earned small collection of US money into what is effectively a virtual foreign currency.

Why does bitcoin continue to increase in value?- because more and more nerds view it as valuable for its scarcity compared to the USD. Yeah...thats a non-starter for a lot of people.

 

[GloryDawg]

I have some old arcade coins. I'll sell y'all those for half the price of Bitcoin.**

A Roman Brothel coin is worth about 19K.

 

[Willowdawg]

ETH has been a nice find, as has ALGO, but I admit I'm not cut out for this market like the Hodlers are. I would wait to sink betting money into it until a correction. I'm not worried about that correction never coming, as I was probably too late getting in to begin with in that case.

It's not too late to get in. I can clearly see that the majority on here think it's a joke so I won't even go into to details on how high the value will be 5 years from now since everyone thinks it'll go to 0 any day now. People have been saying that for years only to see it reach new highs over and over.

 

[Willowdawg]

They seem to think it's worth taking a .5% position in and that has created a run that would make The South Sea company blush.

I will feel better when I see the price action after someone threatens a big bitcoin exchange like Coinbase. These big investors don't really have a clue whether or not bitcoin can be stolen, but just imagine the reaction if some group like Anonymous said they will steal all your bitcoin in a week.... That's the risk.

You want to steal gold, you better bring a 10,000 man army... Crypto currency could theoretically disappear with a keystroke. That fear is going to be hard to overcome.

If you know anything about bitcoin and invest that type of money you would know you can put bitcoin in cold storage which is essentially putting it on a USB drive. At that point it would have to be physically taken from you.

 

[JungRebel]

It's not too late to get in. I can clearly see that the majority on here think it's a joke so I won't even go into to details on how high the value will be 5 years from now since everyone thinks it'll go to 0 any day now. People have been saying that for years only to see it reach new highs over and over.

We feel pretty good about our savings, 401k, and IRA, but I budget for gambling every year too. Went into ETH and ALGO, ETH because I have read up on it before and ALGO for the 6% APY, which is attractive. I'll dollar cost average a bit this year and see how I feel early 2022.

Coinbase makes staking easy but I'm interested in Compound, just havent dug around enough to see how it really works and if it can be done from CB. If I understand correctly basically any crypto can be loaned. If you have a good article on that handy I would like to read it.

 

[Dawgg]

Bitcoin is a commodity

How much is it worth in gallons of Dale's sauce?
Now THAT is a commodity.

 

[mstateglfr]

It's not too late to get in. I can clearly see that the majority on here think it's a joke so I won't even go into to details on how high the value will be 5 years from now since everyone thinks it'll go to 0 any day now. People have been saying that for years only to see it reach new highs over and over.

View attachment 19138
Its reached new highs over and over, except when it hasn't.
Worth $20000 at the start of 2018 then worth $3500 at the start of 2019.


From here on out it may be a line always point up, but let's not pretend like its only gained value since the start.
It took probably 2.5 years to get back to the value at the start of 2018.

 

[oxfordrebel22]

A T206 Honus Wagner baseball card is significantly more scarce than bitcoin.
That's just one of millions of assets that are more scarce, but one that's fun to use since baseball cards(besides this and few others) are worth dick after once being worth a lot.

There’s a huge card boom right now. I’d sell one if I had it, haha

 

[oxfordrebel22]

This thread has made me smarter, so thank you all for that.

I’m impressed considering you are all a bunch of idiot redneck sharecroppers**

 

[Nicephorus]

The most extreme prediction I've seen is Guggenheim claiming 400k and JPM claiming even higher if Bitcoin is treated similar to gold.

https://markets.businessinsider.com...ggenheim-scott-minerd-says-2020-12-1029901347
https://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/1377180/bitcoin-price-latest-tim-draper-jp-morgan-estimate-max-keiser

Interestingly enough, Guggenheim hasn't been able to actually buy any yet due to waiting on SEC approval so missed the most recent run up.

https://twitter.com/MacroScope17/status/1342917031847473153?s=20

I'm assuming they hedged their position with Greyscale bitcoin trust (GBTC) before making comments like this though. GBTC trust inflows are also a good indication as it is probably the easiest way for institutions to get BTC exposure albeit at a roughly 20% premium. At one point, GBTC was basically buying the entire mined new bitcoin supply generated each day. Maybe still is. Haven't checked recently.

Stanley Druckenmiller and some other prominent investors have also said they are starting to shift a small portion of their net worth in bitcoin. Keep in mind, these people aren't going all in. Just putting a small % as an inflationary hedge. Some think bitcoin presents a better potential upside compared to gold and want exposure to both.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/billyb...-calling-it-better-than-gold/?sh=72d871fc222f

IMO Ethereum is going up because it is next on the list for institutions and has lots more utility compared to BTC "store of value". Good analogy I read is to think of bitcoin as "e-mail" and Eth as "internet". Both transformative technologies, but one much more complex. Ethereum CME futures go live in Feb, also generating a lot of speculative interest.

https://www.cmegroup.com/media-room...oup_to_launchetherfuturesonfebruary82021.html

For comparison, BTC futures launched in 12/17/17.

As I've mentioned before, real catalyst driving ethereum is decentralized finance (DeFi) and the rise of "productive assets". Basically, you want to be holding crypto that can generate revenue. This is basically a complex financial game for computer nerds at this point. Here's a series of quick videos going over some of the basics if anyone is interested.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaDcID4s1KronHMKojfjwiHL0DdQEPDcq

My positioning is probably much more aggressive and complex than most posting here as I have a lot of "house money" after doing several multiples since originally posting about this stuff back in this summer.

https://forums.sixpackspeak.com/showthread.php?214736-Weekly-Market-Update&p=1806010&viewfull=1#post1806010

I'm in bitcoin, ethereum, smattering of defi tokens, and stable coins with some of these assets tied up in high interest liquidity pools (yield farming). Personally, I felt buying bitcoin under 13k with my defi profits after "defi summer" was a sure thing back in October given prevailing macroeconomic narratives with US economy. Current market is very uncertain to me now we've broken BTC all time highs and has re-entered "price discover". Just keep in mind bitcoin is the high tide that lifts all boats in crypto, at least for now.

Ultimately, in my opinion, crypto outside of maybe bitcoin is a game of managing "fat tail risk". You never go all in, you're playing for multiples at the expense of losing 50-95% of your investment depending on the risk you take (bitcoin to ethereum to altcoins, from lowest to highest R/R). R/R very similar to being a seed or angel investor when you get to the altcoin side. I could probably write another page or two about this stuff so need to stop somewhere.

Just going to leave this here as a follow up as above. Trillion dollars settled on ethereum 2020. This year going to potentially be multiple trillions.

https://twitter.com/jerallaire/status/1346233132396257282?s=21

 

[Quincy A. Wagstaff]

View attachment 19138
Its reached new highs over and over, except when it hasn't.
Worth $20000 at the start of 2018 then worth $3500 at the start of 2019.


From here on out it may be a line always point up, but let's not pretend like its only gained value since the start.
It took probably 2.5 years to get back to the value at the start of 2018.

It has had a double-digit drawdown every year. On average, the peak-to-trough was a 31% loss. Twice it has lost 90%. Oh wait. That's Amazon stock.

 

[Quincy A. Wagstaff]

If you know anything about bitcoin and invest that type of money you would know you can put bitcoin in cold storage which is essentially putting it on a USB drive. At that point it would have to be physically taken from you.

Exactly. It is actually more difficult to steal bitcoin if you do it right. I use multi-sig cold storage with geographically distributed keys. So it would be easier to steal my gold than my bitcoin.

 

[mstateglfr]

It has had a double-digit drawdown every year. On average, the peak-to-trough was a 31% loss. Twice it has lost 90%. Oh wait. That's Amazon stock.

Not sure why this is your response to my post. I was pointing out that a different poster's claim that bitcoin has reached new highs over and over is ********.

I fully recognize that investments can rise and fall. I'm not the one that needs that info.

 

[Jeffreauxdawg]

If you know anything about bitcoin and invest that type of money you would know you can put bitcoin in cold storage which is essentially putting it on a USB drive. At that point it would have to be physically taken from you.

I agree you can do that. But that's not what is happening. Lots of crypto is kept on exchanges and they are targets, even if they have some version of cold storage. $4.5 billion was stolen in crypto crimes in 2019. That's about 1.5% of the total value of all crypto in 2019. In 2014 6% of all bitcoin in existence was stolen from Mt. Gox.

Hot wallets and scams are the vast majority I am sure... But it's still big and when you live in volatility like crypto a big threat could do as much damage as a big heist.

I'm not a crypto hater. I see it as a commodity future, but it's security and vol risk put it in the speculative category for me.

Since a few of you are light years ahead of me on this... I do have a question.

Is bitcoin a technology? If so how susceptible is it to digital obsolescence in the future? Is the open source nature going to allow it to change with technology?

 

[JungRebel]

That's my question re: bitcoin and not altcoins. ETH and some alts seem like steps forward. Bitcoin was revolutionary technology at the time but seems dated compared to what is now out there 15 years later, trifling amount of time for a currency but an eternity for technology.

 

[Nicephorus]

Compound.finance is a decentralized lending and borrowing platform. See that video series I linked above as it falls under the “defi” umbrella. It would require moving your assets you want to lend to a ethereum wallet, most commonly metamask https://metamask.io/ which runs from your desktop browser or phone. Browser version can also be linked to a hardware wallet to sign transactions actions for added layer of security.

Advantage of compound is it rewards COMP tokens based on your exposure to the platform (total deposited and borrowed). People game this by borrowing stable assets then re supplying them as collateral and borrowing more. At one point you could get over 100% apr from this strategy by selling the comp tokens but think it’s probably in the 30-50% range now.

Look into aave.com as it may have better rates. Also curve.fi is popular with dollar pegged tokens. You’re basically supplying your dollar pegged tokens to a pool of others pegged to a dollar to allow people to efficiently swap large amounts of them back and forth. You get rewarded CRV tokens and fees for doing it. Can get 15%+ on dollar pegged tokens pretty easily. Just remember you are exposed to all the other tokens in the pool you select if say one was to significantly “fall off peg”. This has not happened with DAI, USDT, or USDC. Some of the newer ones are less tested. All this stuff is decentralized with no account sign up, KYC, or credit check required. Linking your metamask to zapper.fi front end can also greatly simplify entering and exiting these platforms.

Honestly, if you’re willing to self custody and dive into compound and other defi platforms, you’ll quickly find much better options than 6% interest on coinbase.

 

[Quincy A. Wagstaff]

That's my question re: bitcoin and not altcoins. ETH and some alts seem like steps forward. Bitcoin was revolutionary technology at the time but seems dated compared to what is now out there 15 years later, trifling amount of time for a currency but an eternity for technology.

Institutional investors aren't lining up to buy altcoins. They want bitcoin.

 

[Seinfeld]

You pretty well spelled out my ongoing confusion with it. For the record, I’m not arguing with anyone that Bitcoin is stupid, that it’s a bad investment, etc. However, I’ve read nearly every word of this thread, and I still just don’t get it.

Well, it’s like gold. No it’s not. Humanity decided that gold had value one day because it’s shiny, it could be made into jewelry, and it was in short supply.

Well, it’s like real estate. Except that it’s not. Real estate may be speculative, but it’s all rooted in the fact that a home(for most) is a basic need in life, and supply or at least location will not always match demand.

Well, it’s just a commodity then. Like what? Corn that you eat, cotton that you use to make clothes or a million other things? Aluminum that is use for light weight aviation, cooking, etc? WTF are we going to do with a Bitcoin?

Again, I am 100% NOT trying to say that it’s a bad investment, but I still don’t get all these justifications trying to compare it to other things that you can actually use one of your senses to see, touch, hear, etc. I guess the one thing I have learned from this thread is that I’m in the idiot group because no matter how much I read, I remain entirely confused.

 

[Nicephorus]

That's my question re: bitcoin and not altcoins. ETH and some alts seem like steps forward. Bitcoin was revolutionary technology at the time but seems dated compared to what is now out there 15 years later, trifling amount of time for a currency but an eternity for technology.

There's sort of a chicken and egg type problem here. Bitcoin and Eth were the first movers and therefore have the lion's share of active developers and actual on chain users. Even though the newer blockchains that pop every few months have better "features", they lack the proven history of security, large transactional volumes, and most importantly actual users that BTC and ETH enjoy so no one really switches to them as there as there is no users due to above. The other chains are basically "ghost chains" at this point with very little real activity (not counting bots spoofing fake transactions on chains with no fees).

This is especially striking with Ethereum which can be illustrated by the chart of active developers working on any particular blockchain. All the developers left the host of "ethereum killers" released in 2017/18 while ethereum has steadily increased as it was the only "smart contract capable" chain with significant users. Smart contract is basically term for a decentralized program running on a blockchain which enables the numerous platforms running on Ethereum. Bitcoin lacks support for smart contracts, at least for now.

https://cryptomode.com/ethereum-has...lopers-but-dont-discount-polkadot-and-cosmos/

Few possible exceptions to above regarding Ethereum competitors IMO would be Polkadot, Cosmos, Solana, and BSC (Binance Smart Chain). These have shown some developer growth early (esp Polkadot) and/or some active users (BSC).

Regarding the BTC clones, bitcoin is the only one moving large volumes daily with enough hash power that I would use IMO. You could maybe make an argument for LTC too although it is not nearly as popular as 2017/2018 now that dollar pegged stable coins on Ethereum have basically replaced its biggest advantage to bitcoin (faster transactions) while being a more stable transactional currency. Some reason retail users on large exchanges still love buying "cheaper" LTC instead of BTC though so it correlates closely with BTC.

 

[Quincy A. Wagstaff]

You pretty well spelled out my ongoing confusion with it. For the record, I’m not arguing with anyone that Bitcoin is stupid, that it’s a bad investment, etc. However, I’ve read nearly every word of this thread, and I still just don’t get it.

Well, it’s like gold. No it’s not. Humanity decided that gold had value one day because it’s shiny, it could be made into jewelry, and it was in short supply.

Well, it’s like real estate. Except that it’s not. Real estate may be speculative, but it’s all rooted in the fact that a home(for most) is a basic need in life, and supply or at least location will not always match demand.

Well, it’s just a commodity then. Like what? Corn that you eat, cotton that you use to make clothes or a million other things? Aluminum that is use for light weight aviation, cooking, etc? WTF are we going to do with a Bitcoin?

Again, I am 100% NOT trying to say that it’s a bad investment, but I still don’t get all these justifications trying to compare it to other things that you can actually use one of your senses to see, touch, hear, etc. I guess the one thing I have learned from this thread is that I’m in the idiot group because no matter how much I read, I remain entirely confused.

A really good website for learning about bitcoin, especially as an investment, is casebitcoin.com. It links to the best (imo) content on bitcoin, so you can go to one website without relying on one source.

 

[Mobile Bay]

Yes. If you have $100m of gold, that would be possible

It's only about 3500 pounds. I could carry that in my tacoma.

 

[Go Budaw]

I agree you can do that. But that's not what is happening. Lots of crypto is kept on exchanges and they are targets, even if they have some version of cold storage. $4.5 billion was stolen in crypto crimes in 2019. That's about 1.5% of the total value of all crypto in 2019. In 2014 6% of all bitcoin in existence was stolen from Mt. Gox.

Hot wallets and scams are the vast majority I am sure... But it's still big and when you live in volatility like crypto a big threat could do as much damage as a big heist.

I'm not a crypto hater. I see it as a commodity future, but it's security and vol risk put it in the speculative category for me.

Since a few of you are light years ahead of me on this... I do have a question.

Is bitcoin a technology? If so how susceptible is it to digital obsolescence in the future? Is the open source nature going to allow it to change with technology?

Adding to that....its quite easy to see for obvious reasons that crypto “crimes” may not even be crimes at all, but rather state-sanctioned attempts to destabilize and destroy cryptocurrency in general. Literally no major governments globally wants cryptocurrency to become legitimate in terms of being used for exchange for goods and services, the least of all being the government that oversees the world’s largest economy.

When you are up against that type of headwind as someone who is “investing”, it ought to give you quite a bit of pause.

 

[JenBielema]

Hey boys - think of those people that still write checks. Every check has the bank routing number and account number on it. Seems risky to give that information out.

With regards to Bitcoin. If you secure your bitcoin offline in cold storage you literally have zero risk of being hacked....actually, it is quite impossible. In order to access your wallet the hacker would have to have your 20 word passphrase in exact order. So unless you have that 'key' stored in an insecure area, you are not at risk of being hacked. Much tighter security than traditional log in / passwords to websites we all use on a daily basis....most of the times the name of your favorite pet with a number at the end. Love you.

 

[UpTheMiddlex3Punt]

Hey boys - think of those people that still write checks. Every check has the bank routing number and account number on it. Seems risky to give that information out.

With regards to Bitcoin. If you secure your bitcoin offline in cold storage you literally have zero risk of being hacked....actually, it is quite impossible. In order to access your wallet the hacker would have to have your 20 word passphrase in exact order. So unless you have that 'key' stored in an insecure area, you are not at risk of being hacked. Much tighter security than traditional log in / passwords to websites we all use on a daily basis....most of the times the name of your favorite pet with a number at the end. Love you.

You need to make sure that your key is on media that can be stored long-term. If you keep it on a thumb drive and the drive gets fried, you might as well have had the stuff stolen from you. Also, if you use any kind of password protection, you should put the password in a safe location. If you die in a car crash, it doesn't matter if you will states that your kids get your bitcoin if the only place your password was is in your head.

Your best bet is keeping a password protected private key, including a print-out of it, in a secure location, and keeping the password in a different secure location. And if your intent is to have your bitcoin go to multiple heirs, you should go ahead and create separate keys for each heir. Or set up some kind of smart contract that would split up your bitcoin upon your death.

 

[UpTheMiddlex3Punt]

While gold has a lot of drawbacks as a modern currency, it is a good store of value. There are some great properties of gold:
- Every single atom of it has 79 protons and 118 neutrons (all stable isotopes, that is). This means any gold atom is as valuable as and indistinguishable from any other gold atom
- You can take two small piles of gold and melt them to make a bigger pile, or turn a big pile into two smaller piles
- It's a stable and pretty much non-reactive metal. Bury it and dig it up a thousand years later and it looks and weighs almost the same
- It's fairly rare, though new discoveries cause price fluctuations
- A change in government does not affect the properties listed above
- There is no artificial constraint placed on the supply. Some might see this as a drawback to scarcity, but it means that if you transport gold into or out of a country, or mine some new gold, its intrinsic value is the same as any equivalent piece of gold (note: coins have a premium due to other collector value and the fact that only governments can mint the coins). Whereas with bitcoin, you are locked into the bitcoin network and the supply is constrained by artificial rules.

 

[Go Budaw]

Hey boys - think of those people that still write checks. Every check has the bank routing number and account number on it. Seems risky to give that information out.

With regards to Bitcoin. If you secure your bitcoin offline in cold storage you literally have zero risk of being hacked....actually, it is quite impossible. In order to access your wallet the hacker would have to have your 20 word passphrase in exact order. So unless you have that 'key' stored in an insecure area, you are not at risk of being hacked. Much tighter security than traditional log in / passwords to websites we all use on a daily basis....most of the times the name of your favorite pet with a number at the end. Love you.

You mean the checks tied to my bank account that 100% guarantees restoring any lost, stolen, or fraudulently spent funds up to $250,000? Who do I call if my Bitcoin is stolen to fully restore my lost assets?