Damn look at Bitcoin today

[Apoplectic_Objurgator]

Surely there has to be a correction soon

 

[Quincy A. Wagstaff]

There are people still waiting for a correction from $19k to $13k. We learned not to try to time the market in 2017. It's an accumulation game.

 

[Jeffreauxdawg]

There are people still waiting for a correction from $19k to $13k. We learned not to try to time the market in 2017. It's an accumulation game.

Just don't forget to sell it at some point. Bitcoin is today's version of Napster. We accumulated the **** out of MP3's in the late 90's.... And then we didn't.

 

[Quincy A. Wagstaff]

Just don't forget to sell it at some point. Bitcoin is today's version of Napster. We accumulated the **** out of MP3's in the late 90's.... And then we didn't.

Napster existed for 3 years. Bitcoin has been live for 12 years. And if you are comparing bitcoin to MP3s, I encourage you to learn about digital scarcity. MP3s can be copied ad infinitum. bitcoin is the most scarce asset in the world.

 

[KeyserSoze1999]

Bitcoin is priced in US Dollars, and The Fed is printing money like crazy - "printer go Brrrrrrr" as the cool kids say. Obviously things that are rare are expensive, while things that are plentiful are cheap...so with US Dollars getting created out of thin air while Bitcoin creation is slow equals weaker USDollar and therefore more expensive Bitcoin.

View attachment 19128

 

[Maroonthirteen]

I have some old arcade coins. I'll sell y'all those for half the price of Bitcoin.**

 

[Seinfeld]

Don't mean to keep beating this dead horse of a question, but there are plenty of rare things that have little to no value. What is it about a Bitcoin that makes people desperately want one? This is one of the most bizarre financial enigmas that I've seen in my lifetime. It's like some computer geeks came up with this thing, magically assigned an arbitrary dollar value to it one day, and then everyone decided that they had to have some before its price went up any further. All for a virtual bitcoin that you can't see, touch, or smell.

This isn't gold. This isn't a promisary note backed by gold. This isn't even a share of a company that fluctuates in value. People are investing massive amounts of money in nothing, and it's beyond perplexing. All that said, congrats to those that have done well with it. You're a lot braver than I am

 

[Quincy A. Wagstaff]

Don't mean to keep beating this dead horse of a question, but there are plenty of rare things that have little to no value. What is it about a Bitcoin that makes people desperately want one? This is one of the most bizarre financial enigmas that I've seen in my lifetime. It's like some computer geeks came up with this thing, magically assigned an arbitrary dollar value to it one day, and then everyone decided that they had to have some before its price went up any further. All for a virtual bitcoin that you can't see, touch, or smell.

This isn't gold. This isn't a promisary note backed by gold. This isn't even a share of a company that fluctuates in value. People are investing massive amounts of money in nothing, and it's beyond perplexing. All that said, congrats to those that have done well with it. You're a lot braver than I am

You may find this helpful: https://casebitcoin.com/critiques/no-intrinsic-value

 

[Apoplectic_Objurgator]

Don't mean to keep beating this dead horse of a question, but there are plenty of rare things that have little to no value. What is it about a Bitcoin that makes people desperately want one? This is one of the most bizarre financial enigmas that I've seen in my lifetime. It's like some computer geeks came up with this thing, magically assigned an arbitrary dollar value to it one day, and then everyone decided that they had to have some before its price went up any further. All for a virtual bitcoin that you can't see, touch, or smell.

This isn't gold. This isn't a promisary note backed by gold. This isn't even a share of a company that fluctuates in value. People are investing massive amounts of money in nothing, and it's beyond perplexing. All that said, congrats to those that have done well with it. You're a lot braver than I am

Aren’t you describing all currency? The difference is that you theoretically can’t create more Bitcoin unlike the dollar since is it no longer tied to gold. What is happening is that the dollar is weakening because of the trillions of new money being dumped into the market to save jobs. These chickens
Will eventually come home to roost.

 

[Jeffreauxdawg]

Napster existed for 3 years. Bitcoin has been live for 12 years. And if you are comparing bitcoin to MP3s, I encourage you to learn about digital scarcity. MP3s can be copied ad infinitum. bitcoin is the most scarce asset in the world.

I'm shocked you of all people would need sarcasterisks...

With that said, I agree the value in crypto currency is scarcity. It's the same as collectibles like art and baseball cards, etc. Those markets are all speculative, with no intrinsic value. That's why the volatility exists.

 

[Quincy A. Wagstaff]

I'm shocked you of all people would need sarcasterisks...

With that said, I agree the value in crypto currency is scarcity. It's the same as collectibles like art and baseball cards, etc. Those markets are all speculative, with no intrinsic value. That's why the volatility exists.

You also may find this helpful: https://casebitcoin.com/critiques/no-intrinsic-value

And that's not why it is volatile. It is volatile because it has gone from a market cap of $0 to over $600 billion in less than 12 years. No asset can go from nothing to a major asset class in a short period of time without extreme volatility. The volatility is the result of price discovery. The world is discovering the value of bitcoin.

You may find this helpful as well: https://casebitcoin.com/critiques/too-volatile

 

[UpTheMiddlex3Punt]

Bitcoin maybe valuable, but it's not currency.

 

[Jeffreauxdawg]

Aren’t you describing all currency? The difference is that you theoretically can’t create more Bitcoin unlike the dollar since is it no longer tied to gold. What is happening is that the dollar is weakening because of the trillions of new money being dumped into the market to save jobs. These chickens
Will eventually come home to roost.

Currency is a nothing more than a representation of productivity or work. It's a more efficient way to barter. US currency works because of its scarcity the same as bitcoin.

So if we recognize that the dollar and other currencies are effectively beaver pelts and bullets we trade back and forth like they did on the frontier.. we now have to determine it's value. Value is determined by supply and demand. Supply is the amount of dollars in circulation and demand relies on the faith that more beaver pelts and bullets will be produced.

The weakening dollar right now is a forecast of decreased productivity or at least not enough of an increase to match the increased supply of money in circulation. With this in mind, the dollar is still the world's reserve currency because even with all of our turmoil, the rest of the world has faith we will continue to be the largest, most powerful, and productive economy in the world.

When it comes to Bitcoin supply is easy to understand. Faith is where I have my questions. The lack of faith is evident in its volatility. In my opinion, it will never have the faith required to become a dependable currency. We know this because nearly every crypto hodler will tell you not to put in money you cannot afford to lose.

I am guessing at some point in the not too distant future there will be some kind of hack, attack, or other issue that proves that point. If it does, watch everyone run for the hills and sell it like their pubes are on fire.

It's a speculative investment and until it can raise an army and defend itself from plunder, I don't think it will ever truly have faith. So it's never going to replace the dollar, but it may one day replace gold as the world's favorite inflation hedge.

 

[Grove Sh*tter]

Doesn't the shift of the dollar to digital form allow for the same type of risk to be manipulated?

 

[Jeffreauxdawg]

You also may find this helpful: https://casebitcoin.com/critiques/no-intrinsic-value

And that's not why it is volatile. It is volatile because it has gone from a market cap of $0 to over $600 billion in less than 12 years. No asset can go from nothing to a major asset class in a short period of time without extreme volatility. The volatility is the result of price discovery. The world is discovering the value of bitcoin.

You may find this helpful as well: https://casebitcoin.com/critiques/too-volatile

So are you trying to say bitcoin is not speculative? Are you buying it based on a discounted cash flow model or because you think it will go up when everyone else figures out how undervalued it is? One of those reasons would meet the definition of speculative.


Price discovery is a momentary issue. It's where a buyer and seller agree on a price. It happens in minutes, not years. Bitcoin is volatile because it's relatively illiquid and risky as 17. It is digital gold with very little history. Gold is speculative too. Neither have a utility value.

 

[Nicephorus]

When it comes to Bitcoin supply is easy to understand. Faith is where I have my questions. The lack of faith is evident in its volatility. In my opinion, it will never have the faith required to become a dependable currency. We know this because nearly every crypto hodler will tell you not to put in money you cannot afford to lose.

I am guessing at some point in the not too distant future there will be some kind of hack, attack, or other issue that proves that point. If it does, watch everyone run for the hills and sell it like their pubes are on fire.

It's a speculative investment and until it can raise an army and defend itself from plunder, I don't think it will ever truly have faith. So it's never going to replace the dollar, but it may one day replace gold as the world's favorite inflation hedge.

In the last 2 or 3 years or so, there has been a huge pivot in the crypto community away from the "Bitcoin is a currency" narrative to a "Bitcoin is a store of value" narrative. The only people clinging to the "currency" narrative are the diehard bitcoin supporters who consider all other crypto illegitimate. Major difference in current crypto markets from 2017/2018 is most major tokens are now settled in dollar pegged tokens on exchanges (DAI, USDC, USDT most commonly which actually run on ethereum chain much faster than Bitcoin) rather than using BTC as a base currency for exchange pairings. Bitcoin is basically the "gold" of crypto at this point as the oldest and most robust (amount of processing power farming it) blockchain.

Been an exceptional year for crypto, especially if you had the foresight to take the dive into decentralized finance early. Mainstream media likes to talk about BTC and Ripple (I'd never buy ripple, it's all smoke and mirrors), defi not mentioned at all in mainstream media despite settling 1 trillion volume on Ethereum and currently having 15 billion assets locked up on ethereum. I spent the time earlier this year when work slowed down to learn about it. The amount of interest on investments you can generate on defi is so out of sync with what is expected in "traditional finance", if I posted them here, most people immediately dismiss it as a scam. Of course, there's no FDIC insurance in defi and hacks/exploits aren't uncommon so it's all about weighing risk and return.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/roundup-of-crypto-hacks-exploits-and-heists-in-2020

 

[Jeffreauxdawg]

I agree with everything you just posted. I have looked at defi and wondered what the 17 is the scam? How can you pay those rates? Ultimately I am in a position where I would worry more about the risk than I care about the reward.

 

[Willowdawg]

Just don't forget to sell it at some point. Bitcoin is today's version of Napster. We accumulated the **** out of MP3's in the late 90's.... And then we didn't.

you know bitcoin has been around way longer than napster ever was. there will be a correction, but then it will rise again. this is nowhere close to being over. but i've been trying to get people to buy in since it was between 2 and 3k, and I just got laughed at. will probably get laughed at for this. i don't care though. not one bit.

 

[Willowdawg]

google blockchain and read about the technology that bitcoin created. it's all about the technology behind the blockchain. it's complicated, but that's where the value is and bitcoin just happened to be the first crypto currency and it created the blockchain. that's what the banks are scared of. THE BLOCKCHAIN. i haven't seen very much discussion about it on here. i really don't like getting into talking about bitcoin and this will probably be my last post about it ever bc im sick and tired of explaining it trying to help people make some money only to be told that they checked with their buddies that know what they are talking about and that it's just a fad. i know that seemed like a rant. im just saying though. i've been trying to tell people for years and they basically laughed at my face.

 

[Willowdawg]

learn the difference in fiat currencly vs decentralized currency, and oh yeah, don't forget to google blockchain

 

[Nicephorus]

Decent broad overview of what “yield farming” in decentralized finance is. Basically think if airBNB gave shares out based on how much revenue their users generated for them when they went public rather than giving it out to early insider seed investors.

https://youtu.be/DGtvN1jKSXs

Word finally getting out on ethereum though. Broke $1000 today and up 30% today alone. Was trading under $700 last week. Here’s a good website to visualize the degree of activity taking place on ethereum driven by defi vs btc.

https://txstreet.com/v/eth-btc

You can compare side by side on a desktop browser

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

Like the man said,... Money never sleeps.

Last man out loses his ***.

 

[mstateglfr]

google blockchain and read about the technology that bitcoin created. it's all about the technology behind the blockchain. it's complicated, but that's where the value is and bitcoin just happened to be the first crypto currency and it created the blockchain. that's what the banks are scared of. THE BLOCKCHAIN.

Totally agree there is future in blockchain.
Not sure why that makes bitcoin valuable though as blockchain tech neednt be tied to bitcoin.
As for the banks being scared, haven't banks invested hard in blockchain?

 

[mstateglfr]

Aren’t you describing all currency? The difference is that you theoretically can’t create more Bitcoin unlike the dollar since is it no longer tied to gold. What is happening is that the dollar is weakening because of the trillions of new money being dumped into the market to save jobs. These chickens
Will eventually come home to roost.

Is it currency or is it an investment?
I get that people will accept bitcoin for goods and services, but its basically people accepting common stock for goods and services.

 

[mstateglfr]

Napster existed for 3 years. Bitcoin has been live for 12 years. And if you are comparing bitcoin to MP3s, I encourage you to learn about digital scarcity. MP3s can be copied ad infinitum. bitcoin is the most scarce asset in the world.

A T206 Honus Wagner baseball card is significantly more scarce than bitcoin.
That's just one of millions of assets that are more scarce, but one that's fun to use since baseball cards(besides this and few others) are worth dick after once being worth a lot.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Y’all have fun with this

Surely there has to be a correction soon

I’m gonna sit this one out and look at something more conservative and easier to understand. Seems to be too much greed on this one. I wish y’all luck.

 

[JenBielema]

Hi boys.....what gives gold value? Is it easily moved from place to place (cross borders). Is it divisible? If you have a ounce bar but i only want half of it, how does that work? Where is it stored, and can that location be audited real time?

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

Well, you can take possession of it

try that with bit coin.

I'm not gerally a fan of either.

Especially something that can not stand on it's own two feet (so to speak).

 

[mstateglfr]

Hi boys.....what gives gold value? Is it easily moved from place to place (cross borders). Is it divisible? If you have a ounce bar but i only want half of it, how does that work? Where is it stored, and can that location be audited real time?

There is no intrinsic value to gold, no matter what any smart people claim. 17 that. Its worth something because it holds appeal.
Why does it hold appeal?
- historical value. Its been sought after for millennia, so it continues to be sought after.
- there is enough of it to create currency in coin form, but it is scarce enough to make it difficult to produce more.
- gold doesn't corrode, so it can be stored and kept without worrying about it degrading in quality or volume.
...and more.

As for how you want half a bar, go take it somewhere to be melted down and turn it into smaller amounts. Obviously.

I am not getting into a discussion about the Fed, gold standard, and auditing Ft Knox. Thats a rabbit hole I have no interest exploring.

 

[BoDawg.sixpack]

If it had no intrinsic value it would have no appeal. You can't have one without the other.

 

[mstateglfr]

If it had no intrinsic value it would have no appeal. You can't have one without the other.

Intrinsic means natural. What natural value is there? All value is due to what we decide, so the value is externally created.

Thats all I'm saying.

 

[BoDawg.sixpack]

Natural value is value assigned by sentient beings

It can't get any more natural than that because value doesn't exist outside of sentience. Therefore intrinsic value cannot be any more intrinsic than what a person assigns to it. That's why gold's intrinsic value and its "appeal" is interdependent on each other.

 

[Jeffreauxdawg]

Gold has no intrinsic value other than it's worth to a jeweler I guess.... The value it does have is perceived value... Especially to government institutions. The United States, Germany, Italy, France, Russia, and China are the largest holders of gold in the world.

They are not going to let it go to zero overnight.... Lots of nukes with that group. Who is going to do anything if Bitcoin went to zero tomorrow... Until that balance of power changes, gold > bitcoin in terms of stability.

ETA. If you forced me to put my life savings in one, it's gold a thousand times over... But I am on the downside of risk at this point. If I was 25 and only had 10 grand to invest, I would be all about bitcoin.

 

[JenBielema]

There is no intrinsic value to gold, no matter what any smart people claim. 17 that. Its worth something because it holds appeal.
Why does it hold appeal?
- historical value. Its been sought after for millennia, so it continues to be sought after.
- there is enough of it to create currency in coin form, but it is scarce enough to make it difficult to produce more.
- gold doesn't corrode, so it can be stored and kept without worrying about it degrading in quality or volume.
...and more.

As for how you want half a bar, go take it somewhere to be melted down and turn it into smaller amounts. Obviously.

I am not getting into a discussion about the Fed, gold standard, and auditing Ft Knox. Thats a rabbit hole I have no interest exploring.

Bitcoin does all of that. And you don’t have to melt it to divide it.

 

[JenBielema]

try that with bit coin.

I'm not gerally a fan of either.

Especially something that can not stand on it's own two feet (so to speak).

Can you carry $100m of gold on an airplane? Say, if you relocate to a different country?

 

[Nicephorus]

People asking the wrong questions IMO. The more important question is “what do large institutions think a Bitcoin is worth”. Lot of recent articles and statements by fund investors may give a hint.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Can you carry $100m of gold on an airplane? Say, if you relocate to a different country?

Yes. If you have $100m of gold, that would be possible

 

[jethreauxdawg]

People asking the wrong questions IMO. The more important question is “what do large institutions think a Bitcoin is worth”. Lot of recent articles and statements by fund investors may give a hint.

Care to summarize them and give a link?

 

[JenBielema]

Yes. If you have $100m of gold, that would be possible

If the plane held 200 passengers and all wanted to do the same. Is it possible? Would you trust the baggage handlers? Could you leave tomorrow with such a sum? I don’t think so. When you arrive at your destination - what is the process of clearing customs and where will you store the gold until your residence is ready. These are extreme examples but ones that gold indeed faces.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

You clearly don’t have $100 million if you are planning to ride on a plane with 200 people. Sorry Bert’s buyout wasn’t higher. Next time saddle up one of the Asians at the blackjack table.