November 4, 2020 - The John Cohen Plan

[Out of Bounds]

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Bo and Blake discuss the transition at Mississippi State and why John Cohen is committed to long-term change at the expense of winning now. Bo gives his thoughts on if Cohen is doing what's best for MSU, why the school is behind the rest of the conference and how important Mike Leach's success is to the long-term changes he is trying to implement.

 

[was21]

"Long term change" without immediate results may mean that he hopes to keep his job longer. Hiring a 60 year old set in his ways coach doesn't fare well for the future either. Just doesn't jibe.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

This ain't no secret. Cohen has said as much. The debate is about what is the best way to get the best talent into MSU's program. My personal opinion was a run-based spread like Mullen with a dual threat QB, along with a great defense (we are D-Line U). Sure we want to pass the ball, but we'll simply have to do it out of that, rather than a 1995 Air Raid.

We're all in now though, let's hope this Suburban Commando crap works. Because MS produces so many Danny Wuerrfels and not enough Pat Whites (Ty Keyes says hello).

 

[philduckworth]

Let's not act like this was some kind of long term plan. Cohen missed on at least our top 2 targets.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Cohen overpaid for an over the hill has been coach whose scheme won’t work in big boy Football.

 

[philduckworth]

Cohen overpaid for an over the hill has been coach whose scheme won’t work in big boy Football.

5 million a year. It's hard to believe. Talk about highway robbery.

 

[Maroonthirteen]

Let's not act like this was some kind of long term plan. Cohen missed on at least our top 2 targets.

Exactly. I don't believe for a second Cohen had some long range plan to switch to a pass first offense when Mullen left.

this is just Bo repeating what the AD wants him to say or/and Bo just talking to fill air time. Nothing more.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

Exactly. I don't believe for a second Cohen had some long range plan to switch to a pass first offense when Mullen left.

this is just Bo repeating what the AD wants him to say or/and Bo just talking to fill air time. Nothing more.

You’re both wrong. He did have a plan. He chose Slophead over Hayseed in 2017, and then got Leach after Judge bailed last year. Napier was not coming. I will admit that Cohen also liked the idea of the super recruiter too, but he ultimately wanted to develop a passing offense.

I give credit where it’s due. I still don’t think it’s a GOOD plan, but at least he has one. Bo Bounds is late to the party, we all knew this two years ago.

 

[patdog]

Agree. Cohen had a plan. Exactly the WRONG plan for Mississippi State football.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

Cohen overpaid for an over the hill has been coach whose scheme won’t work in big boy Football.

Remember Leach’s best team ever? The mighty 11-1 team at Texas Tech? Yeah they got destroyed by an 8-4 Ole Miss that lost to Vanderbilt.

The only chance we have of this working is by recruiting at a very high level. And we ain’t doing that right now.

 

[philduckworth]

Remember Leach’s best team ever? The mighty 11-1 team at Texas Tech? Yeah they got destroyed by an 8-4 Ole Miss that lost to Vanderbilt.

The only chance we have of this working is by recruiting at a very high level. And we ain’t doing that right now.

Save this post. This has no chance of working.

 

[philduckworth]

Agree. Cohen had a plan. Exactly the WRONG plan for Mississippi State football.

Meh, his plan was to hire Judge. After getting shot down by Napier multiple times. Then he went into scramble mode. Met with Sark, flew out to see Leach. Just didn't do the research. In his defense, I had no idea Leach was this bad.

 

[The Usual Suspect]

Sounds like CYA plan to me.

 

[Maroonthirteen]

Remember Leach’s best team ever? The mighty 11-1 team at Texas Tech? Yeah they got destroyed by an 8-4 Ole Miss that lost to Vanderbilt.

The only chance we have of this working is by recruiting at a very high level. And we ain’t doing that right now.

the 2018 WSU team, had a NFL QB but didn't beat anyone that finished in the top 25. Lost their only game to a top 25 team, Washington.

 

[BlueRidgeMtns]

Regardless, we're pretty much tied to this plan and are going to have to see if the Air Raid can work in the next 2-3 years. No way we can fire Leach and get anyone better after firing JoMo after 2 seasons that the pundits would say were on par for State.

Here's hoping that this whole thing clicks before the plane crashes into the mountain.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Even though his plan was never long term and despite all of his faults Mullen had the right "plan" for MSU football. Solid (albeit not spectacular) recruiting and intense player development, mixed offense and tough hard nosed defense. Cohen hasn't effectively planned a damn thing since he's been AD and his only plan now is bullshitting his way into keeping his job.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

Even though his plan was never long term and despite all of his faults Mullen had the right "plan" for MSU football. Solid (albeit not spectacular) recruiting and intense player development, mixed offense and tough hard nosed defense. Cohen hasn't effectively planned a damn thing since he's been AD and his only plan now is bullshitting his way into keeping his job.

Bingo. Some on here act like Mullen was so far away. Bo said it yesterday too, something to the effect of, "guys this is all we've ever done, run the ball out of a power spread, etc. yada yada". Well **** it seems to me we were pretty damn close in 2010 (finished top 15), 2014 (finished top 10 or close) and 2017/2018. That's nearly half of Mullen's tenure. Nothing we did during that tenure was "what we've always done". He had a QB almost win the Heisman. We thought we had a chance in every game. We had big crowds.

The ONLY thing missing was SLIGHTLY better recruiting, and that could have been fixed. Cam Newton. A.J. Brown. A linemen here or there. These are guys that we actually could have signed. I'm not talking about mythical players from Georgia, Texas or Florida - these guys were from MS or had ties to our coaching staff. I mean we were putting guys in the NFL left and right, had become D-Line U. We were close.

People are so off base with this 'we need to throw' garbage. Sure we need to throw. But the % of run/pass is not important. It's being able to throw effectively when you do it.

 

[L4Dawg]

Bingo. Some on here act like Mullen was so far away. Bo said it yesterday too, something to the effect of, "guys this is all we've ever done, run the ball out of a power spread, etc. yada yada". Well **** it seems to me we were pretty damn close in 2010 (finished top 15), 2014 (finished top 10 or close) and 2017/2018. That's nearly half of Mullen's tenure. Nothing we did during that tenure was "what we've always done". He had a QB almost win the Heisman. We thought we had a chance in every game. We had big crowds.

The ONLY thing missing was SLIGHTLY better recruiting, and that could have been fixed. Cam Newton. A.J. Brown. A linemen here or there. These are guys that we actually could have signed. I'm not talking about mythical players from Georgia, Texas or Florida - these guys were from MS or had ties to our coaching staff. I mean we were putting guys in the NFL left and right, had become D-Line U. We were close.

People are so off base with this 'we need to throw' garbage. Sure we need to throw. But the % of run/pass is not important. It's being able to throw effectively when you do it.

We were right on the cusp with Mullen, and we had people who wanted him gone. Let that sink in.

 

[L4Dawg]

Even though his plan was never long term and despite all of his faults Mullen had the right "plan" for MSU football. Solid (albeit not spectacular) recruiting and intense player development, mixed offense and tough hard nosed defense. Cohen hasn't effectively planned a damn thing since he's been AD and his only plan now is bullshitting his way into keeping his job.

THIS.

 

[HumpDawgy]

Heck, we have been waiting since 1941 for this long term plan to come to fruition!

 

[Maroonthirteen]

Bingo. Some on here act like Mullen was so far away. Bo said it yesterday too, something to the effect of, "guys this is all we've ever done, run the ball out of a power spread, etc. yada yada". Well **** it seems to me we were pretty damn close in 2010 (finished top 15), 2014 (finished top 10 or close) and 2017/2018. That's nearly half of Mullen's tenure. Nothing we did during that tenure was "what we've always done". He had a QB almost win the Heisman. We thought we had a chance in every game. We had big crowds.

The ONLY thing missing was SLIGHTLY better recruiting, and that could have been fixed. Cam Newton. A.J. Brown. A linemen here or there. These are guys that we actually could have signed. I'm not talking about mythical players from Georgia, Texas or Florida - these guys were from MS or had ties to our coaching staff. I mean we were putting guys in the NFL left and right, had become D-Line U. We were close.

People are so off base with this 'we need to throw' garbage. Sure we need to throw. But the % of run/pass is not important. It's being able to throw effectively when you do it.

Boom. Nailed it.

hell, I agree we need to throw the ball. When we can....example 2015. However passing every down for 5 to -5 yards is ridiculously bad.

 

[Cooterpoot]

You win with balanced play. You need to be able to throw and run. Cohen is an awful AD for a football program. Hell, his top guy has won how many games this year? (Judge) He missed and had to have a name guy who throws it. He hired a guy with no flexibility and if we lose to Vandy this week, **** gets really ugly. We are better than a 1-2 win team.
We don't have the pieces for this offense and it's going to be at least two more years before we even compete on offense.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

Heck, we have been waiting since 1941 for this long term plan to come to fruition!

We've just never gotten serious with recruiting, as a program (which includes administration and fanbase). No scheme works without good players. The good coaches we've had have always just worked up to a peak, then imploded.

So, to me, you have to pick a scheme/plan that works for the best players we can realistically get. Those are MS players, with some filter in from surrounding states that didn't have a home state offer, and JUCOs. Basically, that is a run-based spread offense and punishing defense. You can mix and match what you do, but basically you're trying to get those best players available. If you happen to come across a great drop back passer, sure, sign him, and modify our offense as needed.

Offensive line is another area where we've lacked over the years. How many QBs have looked awesome one year, then awful the next? Then our idiot fans are clamoring for the backup, always have. We need to innovate here, sign at least 5 per year, always maintain depth. Road graders. Pass off the run.

 

[Go Budaw]

the 2018 WSU team, had a NFL QB but didn't beat anyone that finished in the top 25. Lost their only game to a top 25 team, Washington.

Sounds a lot like our 2014 team.

 

[The Usual Suspect]

We need to run whatever our recruiting base allows us to run most effectively. The air raid is not our recruiting base at all in the past. Unless that changes drastically we are screwed.

 

[Bulldawg77]

We need to run whatever our recruiting base allows us to run most effectively. The air raid is not our recruiting base at all in the past. Unless that changes drastically we are screwed.

You are correct and the offense we need to run should be what OK is running. Mixing in some AR scheme with the power running game. The AR is not going to work in the SEC