REASON TO HAVE HOPE:

[Where'sWaldo]

The way I now look at being a State fan is that I hope we win 1 national championship in my lifetime. That is the goal. I've been a State fan since birth and will be until I die.

Now on to the hope...The entire premise of Leach's offense is that it is simple and relies on constant repetition to perfect it. The strategy behind that is that if you become perfect at anything it is nearly impossible to defend even if the defense knows what is coming. We took a massive hit by not having a preseason and that resulted in us running a simple offense that we are executing poorly which is the worst case scenario. I'm hoping after an offseason of repetition we will take a big step forward next year.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

Most everyone is willing to give it next year. But this whole "we gotta have brand new players".......17 that. Even Rich Rod - the most 'system' coach there ever was - showed a little improvement his second year. You know who didn't? Croom.

But even in this COVID throwaway year, there's still massive reason for concern, for all the numerous reasons that all the reasonable posters have listed for weeks now.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

I’m not sold on “wait until Leach gets his players in”... yep we have the QB coming in if he doesn’t change his mind, but even if we had Patrick Mahomes at QB, we would be at the most 2-3. I just don’t believe Leach’s scheme will work in the SEC. The SEC is totally different now than it was 20 years ago defensively. We are just going to pay him $20 million and be the laughing stock of the SEC.

 

[PirateDawg]

I’m not sold on “wait until Leach gets his players in”... yep we have the QB coming in if he doesn’t change his mind, but even if we had Patrick Mahomes at QB, we would be at the most 2-3. I just don’t believe Leach’s scheme will work in the SEC. The SEC is totally different now than it was 20 years ago defensively. We are just going to pay him $20 million and be the laughing stock of the SEC.

It worked when he was a Kentucky. Go back and look.

 

[Where'sWaldo]

I don't think it's getting the players in as much as it is getting the players we have a ton of reps in this offense. I also think going against a pressuring 3-3-5 defense all offseason doesn't prepare us well to go against the rush 3 drop 8 schemes we are seeing.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

It worked when he was a Kentucky. Go back and look.

Why do people keep saying it worked. Hal Mumme went 10-22 at Kentucky, 6-10 while Leach was OC. They didn't beat anybody who was good. Their best victory was over our 1998 team, who went 8-3 and it was in Lexington by 2 points (we all know JLD wasn't running a zone).

What a colossal screw up this is going to be. I still can't believe we actually did it.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

I don't think it's getting the players in as much as it is getting the players we have a ton of reps in this offense. I also think going against a pressuring 3-3-5 defense all offseason doesn't prepare us well to go against the rush 3 drop 8 schemes we are seeing.

That's a fair point.

 

[Go Budaw]

Why do people keep saying it worked. Hal Mumme went 10-22 at Kentucky, 6-10 while Leach was OC. They didn't beat anybody who was good. Their best victory was over our 1998 team, who went 8-3 and it was in Lexington by 2 points (we all know JLD wasn't running a zone).

What a colossal screw up this is going to be. I still can't believe we actually did it.

UK averaged 30 ppg in SEC games in the 2 years that Leach was there as OC. They were still terrible defensively, which is why they didn’t win a ton of games. But the offense did work. Scoring fell off a cliff after Leach left for Oklahoma in 1999.

 

[Dawgtruc]

The way I now look at being a State fan is that I hope we win 1 national championship in my lifetime. That is the goal. I've been a State fan since birth and will be until I die.

Now on to the hope...The entire premise of Leach's offense is that it is simple and relies on constant repetition to perfect it. The strategy behind that is that if you become perfect at anything it is nearly impossible to defend even if the defense knows what is coming. We took a massive hit by not having a preseason and that resulted in us running a simple offense that we are executing poorly which is the worst case scenario. I'm hoping after an offseason of repetition we will take a big step forward next year.

Agree. The morons comparing this situation to Croom are off base. Croom was running a system difficult to perfect in college with the limited practice time allowed by the NCAA. Leach's system is more coachable within the confines of the practice windows and rules. Now granted, I'm still a little skeptical about it working as well as it did in the Big 12/PAC 12. But the Croom comparison lacks any rationale at all.

 

[patdog]

Kentucky ran the ball 30 times per game when he was there and his offense was so different from anything anyone had ever seen they had no clue how to defend it. Now he’s running it 18 times per game and everyone has an idea how to defend the concepts in his offense, except Bo Pelini.

 

[HumpDawgy]

I'm just crossing my fingers that we can make a first down before the second quarter.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

Kentucky ran the ball 30 times per game when he was there and his offense was so different from anything anyone had ever seen they had no clue how to defend it. Now he’s running it 18 times per game and everyone has an idea how to defend the concepts in his offense, except Bo Pelini.

And Pelini will soon be fired either this year or next. Eddie O will get Chizik'ed next year as well.

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

The way I now look at being a State fan is that I hope we win 1 national championship in my lifetime. That is the goal. I've been a State fan since birth and will be until I die.

I'm saying this to myself as much as you. We will never win a national championship in football. Ever. You'd have to be older than 80 to even remember our last conference championship. Hope is what kills you. How's it go? Abandon all hope, ye who cheer for the maroon and white.

 

[paindonthurt_]

Of course if he doesn’t show improvement next year that’s a big concern.
But define improvement?
I mean make it objective and not just “Bc Russ wheeler said so”

 

[Imadick]

Leach needs to coach defense some. I think if he coached our defense dropping 8 running against our(his) offense it should show him where the weaknesses in his scheme lay.

 

[DogTalk]

I’m still holding out hope

 

[olblue.sixpack]

UK averaged 30 ppg in SEC games in the 2 years that Leach was there as OC. They were still terrible defensively, which is why they didn’t win a ton of games. But the offense did work. Scoring fell off a cliff after Leach left for Oklahoma in 1999.

You forgot to mention that Tim Couch left for the NFL at the same time.

 

[was21]

Wasn't Mumme fired from Kentucky? And if so why was he fired. What did he do after that? Was he successful anywhere else. I don't feel like googling it and maybe it doesn't matter anyway. That's ancient history. So is what Leach did there as well. They football world has turned over a lot since then

 

[was21]

Replying to myself. It ended up a damn mess, then he ends up at Southeastern Louisiana...wow

 

[Go Budaw]

You forgot to mention that Tim Couch left for the NFL at the same time.

And he proceeded to completely suck *** there as well. No evidence at all that the offense didn’t prop Couch up just as much (if not more so) as he helped the offense.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

And he proceeded to completely suck *** there as well. No evidence at all that the offense didn’t prop Couch up just as much as he helped the offense.

No ****. It can be both. Nobody is saying that Leach is a BAD coach, he clearly isn't. But who the hell wants to go through all this rebuild crap just to go 8-4 in a peak year?

 

[thekimmer]

Wasn't Mumme fired from Kentucky? And if so why was he fired. What did he do after that? Was he successful anywhere else. I don't feel like googling it and maybe it doesn't matter anyway. That's ancient history. So is what Leach did there as well. They football world has turned over a lot since then

Mumme got in big trouble with the NCAA while at UK and might have gotten a show cause but not sure. He was damaged goods after that and at one time was at Belhaven believe it or not.

 

[Go Budaw]

No ****. It can be both. Nobody is saying that Leach is a BAD coach, he clearly isn't. But who the hell wants to go through all this rebuild crap just to go 8-4 in a peak year?

Because at MSU we are going to go 8-4 in a “peak year” 9 times out of 10 no matter what. See 2010 and 2017 as references. In 2014 we had a soft as 17 schedule, maybe a Top 5 QB in SEC history, and still won just 10 in a 12 game schedule. That **** isn’t going to line up that way for us very often, may not get those same circumstances again for 50+ years. People need to quit thinking we’ll ever have a 2014 type season every 5 years or even every 10 years. It just ain’t happening.

 

[olblue.sixpack]

And he proceeded to completely suck *** there as well. No evidence at all that the offense didn’t prop Couch up just as much as he helped the offense.

The list of NFL QB busts after prolific college careers is long.

Let me ask this question, who would you rather have taking snaps - Tim Couch or Dusty Bonner?

 

[Russ Wheeler]

Because at MSU we are going to go 8-4 in a “peak year” 9 times out of 10 no matter what. See 2010 and 2017 as references. In 2014 we had a soft as 17 schedule, maybe a Top 5 QB in SEC history, and still won just 10 in a 12 game schedule. That **** isn’t going to line up that way for us very often, may not get those same circumstances again for 50+ years. People need to quit thinking we’ll ever have a 2014 type season every 5 years or even every 10 years. It just ain’t happening.

I think you're wrong. I look at what COULD have been with just slightly more effort on Mullen's part. Or slightly more effort from our fanbase (more sold out crowds, even in bad years). Or slightly more commitment from our boosters. See this list:

1) Cam Newton in 2010, sky was the limit
2) Much better recruiting class of 2011 had he not job shopped, which would have helped 2014
3) The misses on OL recruiting due to Hevesy not toning down the jackassery just a tad
4) A.J. Brown and Raekwon Davis - how do you not prioritize these guys and outwork the other guys??

We had the blueprint.....just slightly more effort, and we might have multiple SEC titles. The talent is available for a 7/8 win MEDIAN....not peak. Especially when Cohen only went after these passing guys because he thought they could get us over the Bama hump. Well **** Cohen we were almost there.

Yeah.....we were that close. WERE.

 

[Go Budaw]

I think you're wrong. I look at what COULD have been with just slightly more effort on Mullen's part. Or slightly more effort from our fanbase (more sold out crowds, even in bad years). Or slightly more commitment from our boosters. See this list:

1) Cam Newton in 2010, sky was the limit
2) Much better recruiting class of 2011 had he not job shopped, which would have helped 2014
3) The misses on OL recruiting due to Hevesy not toning down the jackassery just a tad
4) A.J. Brown and Raekwon Davis - how do you not prioritize these guys and outwork the other guys??

We had the blueprint.....just slightly more effort, and we might have multiple SEC titles. The talent is available for a 7/8 win MEDIAN....not peak. Especially when Cohen only went after these passing guys because he thought they could get us over the Bama hump. Well **** Cohen we were almost there.

Yeah.....we were that close. WERE.

1) Cam Newton - whenever its us and another SEC West school not named OM or Arkansas that both badly need a QB, we are going to lose that battle every time. And even with the two schools above, we will lose quite a few as well, probably more often than not. Just the way it is.

2) Much better recruiting in 2011? I’m at a total loss here. That was probably the best recruiting class pound for pound in MSU history. There are literally 3 or 4 pro bowlers in it. I’m sorry you think it would have been better with a bunch of overrated, hopeless head cases like Nick Brassell. How you view that class, out of any we’ve signed, as some sort of a missed opportunity is hilarious.

3) OL recruiting? I’m not sure who we missed that would have made a difference. Under Mullen and even in year 1 of Moorhead, we had a good enough OL on the field to run the offense against anyone not named Bama. WR and QB...different story.

4) We made an effort at Raekwon and almost got him before Bama “reprioritized” him. After that, it was all over. Regarding AJ Brown, at least 10 of your usernames have been told the same thing by numerous posters in the know....he was NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS COMING TO MSU. You just simply refuse to believe it....for what reason I’m not sure.