Stop overanalyzing Leach and look at facts

[horshack.sixpack]

Bellard (good)
Felker (bad)
Sherrill (good)
Croom (bad)
Mullen (good)
Moorhead (bad)
Leach (has to be good, it's inevitable so relax)

 

[Felonious Junk]

View attachment 18537

 

[dorndawg]

 

[Russ Wheeler]

Bellard (good)
Felker (bad)
Sherrill (good)
Croom (bad)
Mullen (good)
Moorhead (bad)
Leach (has to be good, it's inevitable so relax)

Obviously we can't deal with success. Every time we get shown the blueprint, we out-think ourselves and go do some charity stuff like hiring a former player, the trendy social justice hire (who wasn't even good - esp. when Charlie Strong was available), or the guy the 'expert' stats guys recommend.

What was so difficult about hiring someone off the Mullen tree? That's the blueprint. All we needed to do is add a few more players. Easy said than done, yes, but that's the way.

 

[RiverCityDawg]

Obviously we can't deal with success. Every time we get shown the blueprint, we out-think ourselves and go do some charity stuff like hiring a former player, the trendy social justice hire (who wasn't even good - esp. when Charlie Strong was available), or the guy the 'expert' stats guys recommend.

What was so difficult about hiring someone off the Mullen tree? That's the blueprint. All we needed to do is add a few more players. Easy said than done, yes, but that's the way.

The "Mullen tree"? Hev, Billy G, or Knox?

 

[BlueRidgeMtns]

He's clearly referencing Tim Tebow.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

The "Mullen tree"? Hev, Billy G, or Knox?

Diaz, Collins, Grantham. Pruitt would have been alright too. All would use very similar personnel. We've also never tried a defensive coach at MSU, and it's worth doing.

This isn't rocket science. When things work, you don't change them up. For Mullen to have such an offensive background, he was very aware that he needed to place a lot of the good athletes on defense and be strong there.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

I'm pretty sure the thought process was that being a tough defense run first team or even the RPO strategy was not ever going to beat Bama or LSU and that winning 7 games a year was not acceptable. 4 non conference patsies and the bottom 3 SEC teams. The aspiration is to rise above and challenge the elite. You can not out Bama Bama. So...somebody decided the Air Raid might work. And maybe it will eventually but its obviously not gonna be this year.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Now that I think about it, I did skip over Knox's tenure as undefeated head coach after Mullen left.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

I'm pretty sure the thought process was that being a tough defense run first team or even the RPO strategy was not ever going to beat Bama or LSU and that winning 7 games a year was not acceptable. 4 non conference patsies and the bottom 3 SEC teams. The aspiration is to rise above and challenge the elite. You can not out Bama Bama. So...somebody decided the Air Raid might work. And maybe it will eventually but its obviously not gonna be this year.

Obviously. Everyone knows where Cohen's mind was. But the easier play is to actually sign A.J. Brown, then we probably beat them in both 2017 and 2018. We were damn close in 2013 and 2014. We're talking about the greatest dynasty in football history here, too.

 

[RiverCityDawg]

Diaz, Collins, Grantham. Pruitt would have been alright too. All would use very similar personnel. We've also never tried a defensive coach at MSU, and it's worth doing.

This isn't rocket science. When things work, you don't change them up. For Mullen to have such an offensive background, he was very aware that he needed to place a lot of the good athletes on defense and be strong there.

Eh. The culture piece would have been better, but there would have been the same offensive transition, leading to a lot of the same issues we've seen. And with a defensive coach I'm afraid we would be replacing OC'e regularly if we had any measure of success. I would rather try for stability on offense and rely on culture and recruiting on defense, like we did under Mullen and could possibly do under Leach. Moorhead talked a big game on culture, just didn't deliver.

You say it's not rocket science. No, there's actually a proven scientific method associated with that. Hiring a head football coach in the SEC is much harder than that, hence every single program struggling to hit on a good hire. It's a crap shoot at best.

The key is you can't make bad back to back hires, especially at one of the "have-nots"...The Moorhead hire was bad. It happens. Now the Leach hire has to work out.

 

[patdog]

That was the wrong thought process. We are never going to beat Alabama or LSU with any regularity. The Mullen way led us to the best decade in our football history. So of course Cohen outsmarted himself and went another direction.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

You can not sign elite recievers when you don't have a pass first mentality. Why would anyone want to sign at a college where he might catch 30 balls a year ? That would be a waste of their talent plus the chance to play in the NFL. Period.

 

[o_Hot Rock]

Obviously. Everyone knows where Cohen's mind was. But the easier play is to actually sign A.J. Brown, then we probably beat them in both 2017 and 2018. We were damn close in 2013 and 2014. We're talking about the greatest dynasty in football history here, too.

Mullen has been at Florida three years.. and still no big wins over a more talented team. What he does well, is spot talent, coach em up strong and beat teams he is supposed to beat almost every time. Until he starts searching for another job every Thanksgiving. If Mullen can't do it there, what makes you think that his coaching tree could have done it here?

Every team that has won with the Urban Meyer/Dan Mullen offense wins with talent first. They get the best athletes or they don't win.

Going a different direction with a new idea is the way to go. It may work out or may not but it was definitely they correct move. Leach has shown that he can be successful with a somewhat less talented team on offense. It's not like we went and got some assistant that had never proven he knew what to do.

If we want to actually beat Bama some day, this is the homerun swing to do it. It's shoot the moon time, I am ready for it myself.

 

[bruiser.sixpack]

I'm pretty sure the thought process was that being a tough defense run first team or even the RPO strategy was not ever going to beat Bama or LSU and that winning 7 games a year was not acceptable. 4 non conference patsies and the bottom 3 SEC teams. The aspiration is to rise above and challenge the elite. You can not out Bama Bama. So...somebody decided the Air Raid might work. And maybe it will eventually but its obviously not gonna be this year.

Are you saying that Cohen said that winning 7 to 8 games a year was not acceptable or that the Fan “base” said that winning 7 or 8 games was not acceptable?

Because THIS Fan certainly understands that when you have to play Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Texas A&M, Arkansas and Ole Miss, all 6 opponents you have a historical overall losing record to, 7-8 wins per year with the occasional yet rare 9 win season and a Bowl trio for the team and fans is VERY acceptable. My issues with losing over the years has not been as much with the loss, but in the ways State has found ways to lose and how the team has looked in many of those losses.

Give me 5 wins this year and 7-8 next year and let’s see how hard it is the get to 9 or possibly 10. It will always be extremely hard for Mississippi State.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

Everybody talks about signing recievers but until we put one in the NFL that will be difficult. I expect Leach will fix that to some extent. At least they know they will have a chance to catch a hundred passes a year

 

[horshack.sixpack]

This did not, in fact, stop the overanalyzing...

 

[MaxwellSmart]

The "Mullen tree"? Hev, Billy G, or Knox?

Peter Sirmon guys, it simple!*****

 

[WrapItDog]

Diaz, Collins, Grantham. Pruitt would have been alright too. All would use very similar personnel. We've also never tried a defensive coach at MSU, and it's worth doing.

This isn't rocket science. When things work, you don't change them up. For Mullen to have such an offensive background, he was very aware that he needed to place a lot of the good athletes on defense and be strong there.

Nick Saban says defense no longer key to winning in college football

“It used to be that good defense beats good offense. Good defense doesn’t beat good offense anymore,” Saban told ESPN on Friday.
“It used to be if you had a good defense, other people weren’t going to score. You were always going to be in the game. I’m telling you. It ain’t that way anymore.”

https://larrybrownsports.com/college-football/nick-saban-defense-not-key-winning/566430

 

[was21]

Following horoscopes or horrorscopes

 

[fishwater99]

Obviously we can't deal with success. Every time we get shown the blueprint, we out-think ourselves and go do some charity stuff like hiring a former player, the trendy social justice hire (who wasn't even good - esp. when Charlie Strong was available), or the guy the 'expert' stats guys recommend.

What was so difficult about hiring someone off the Mullen tree? That's the blueprint. All we needed to do is add a few more players. Easy said than done, yes, but that's the way.

What Tree? You mean the Tree Mullen came from, Urban Meyer?

 

[Russ Wheeler]

Nick Saban says defense no longer key to winning in college football

“It used to be that good defense beats good offense. Good defense doesn’t beat good offense anymore,” Saban told ESPN on Friday.
“It used to be if you had a good defense, other people weren’t going to score. You were always going to be in the game. I’m telling you. It ain’t that way anymore.”

https://larrybrownsports.com/college-football/nick-saban-defense-not-key-winning/566430

Is Nick Saban winning or not? Nobody said a defensive coach cannot have a good offense. Likewise, Danny Boy had some good defenses.

Both of them have a plan for both sides of the ball. It has to jive with the other side.

 

[WrapItDog]

Is Nick Saban winning or not? Nobody said a defensive coach cannot have a good offense. Likewise, Danny Boy had some good defenses.

Both of them have a plan for both sides of the ball. It has to jive with the other side.

Saban is winning. Kiffen dragged him kicking and screaming into modern football. Saban defense is currently ranked #64 and they aren't winning games because of his great defensive scheme or defensive coaching ability. That's why Saban made the quote posted above. He realizes the game has changed and you better change with times or get left behind.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

Saban is winning. Kiffen dragged him kicking and screaming into modern football. Saban defense is currently ranked #64 and they aren't winning games because of his great defensive scheme or defensive coaching ability. That's why Saban made the quote posted above. He realizes the game has changed and you better change with times or get left behind.

Contrary to popular belief, Alabama's offense was NEVER bad. You have to go back to 2008 to find the last time they were outside the top 25. Lone exception? Kiffin's 2015 offense.

These are talking points from 'experts' who really don't know how football is played. Alabama simply has had a run of multiple really good receivers and quarterbacks with Tua and Mac. Back in the day, their beasts were the tailbacks, and they are about to go back to that in the next few years. It's all about where your athletes are.

 

[WrapItDog]

Contrary to popular belief, Alabama's offense was NEVER bad. You have to go back to 2008 to find the last time they were outside the top 25. Lone exception? Kiffin's 2015 offense.

These are talking points from 'experts' who really don't know how football is played. Alabama simply has had a run of multiple really good receivers and quarterbacks with Tua and Mac. Back in the day, their beasts were the tailbacks, and they are about to go back to that in the next few years. It's all about where your athletes are.

Saban ain't going back to the ground and pound. He already admitted he's not beating teams with similar talent Clemson - 2018 LSU - 2019 with defense. He has to outscore them. Georgia ground and pound no problem.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

Saban ain't going back to the ground and pound. He already admitted he's not beating teams with similar talent Clemson - 2018 LSU - 2019 with defense. He has to outscore them. Georgia ground and pound no problem.

I figured you would bring up Georgia. Georgia hasn't had a QB or WRs anywhere near what Bama has had.

You act like they didn't throw the ball around in Saban's early days. Julio Jones? Amari Cooper? LSU had all world receivers in 2019. If you have that, you're silly if you DON'T throw it around. But there's not some magic pill. Honestly they also had them during the Les Miles years, but they didn't have a QB. And if you CAN run the ball repeatedly, you absolutely SHOULD. It minimizes risk i.e. turnovers.

Bottom line is, Alabama's defense has gotten worse this year, so he's crying about the offenses, like he did back in 2013/2014 when tempo was all the rage.

Similarly, our Air Raid is only going to work if we bring in the talent to do it.

 

[shotgunDawg]

That was the wrong thought process. We are never going to beat Alabama or LSU with any regularity. The Mullen way led us to the best decade in our football history. So of course Cohen outsmarted himself and went another direction.

We’re 3-4 vs LSU in the last 7 with a missed FG from having a winning record

 

[Russ Wheeler]

We’re 3-4 vs LSU in the last 7 with a missed FG from having a winning record

SMH. It gets really old having to explain every little detail to some of you people. He simply means the upper echelon of the SEC, when things are rolling, which will generally produce 2-3 elite teams. Those teams are Always big strong and deep on the lines, which is the separator from other leagues.

 

[patdog]

Trust me, nobody dragged Saban kicking and screaming anywhere he didn't want to go. Saban is one of the smartest coaches in the game and isn't afraid to evolve with the times. Kiffin did exactly what Saban hired him to do, at least on the field. But that offense was going to evolve with or without Kiffin.

 

[operch]

There was only one limb on the Mullen tree and it is broken.


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[horshack.sixpack]

Eric Moulds. Ole Miss say don’t get hysterical, get historical.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

Trust me, nobody dragged Saban kicking and screaming anywhere he didn't want to go. Saban is one of the smartest coaches in the game and isn't afraid to evolve with the times. Kiffin did exactly what Saban hired him to do, at least on the field. But that offense was going to evolve with or without Kiffin.

I still fail to see need why Saban would need to 'evolve'. All that talk started around 2013, when honestly was still the best team in the country, beaten on a fluke kick return. Does anybody really think Alabama wouldn't have beaten Jameis Winston in the BCS title? Auburn should have beaten them, they were up 21-0.

Then he hires Kiffin, and they aren't as good in 2014. That's because they lost McCarron. 2015, worst offense of the Saban era, but still win the title. 2016, they move to Hurts, Kiffin gets chewed out and leaves, they barely lose the national title on about as equal of a game as you can play. Same 'evolved' offense finally gets stymied against Georgia in 2017, but then Tua comes in and wins the game. Next year in 2018 to now they set the world on fire with Tua and a set of about 4-5 NFL caliber receivers.

Looks to me like it's more about the players they recruited, than some evolution of offense. And it's not until now that Alabama's defense has regressed, but some of that is a product of the offense scoring more and being on the field.