I've thought about this a lot over the weekend...
- Thread starter dawgstudent
- Start date
I knew that he was not a good coach. It was obvious we were going down a bad path.
But I did not realize just how bad until Saturday, seeing these same receivers creating separation, catching passes, making plays, etc. Then watching us play tough, disciplined defense, outside of the one dumb freshman penalty at the end. Watching our special teams be competent.
I had actually underestimated just how bad the Joe experiment was.
But I did not realize just how bad until Saturday, seeing these same receivers creating separation, catching passes, making plays, etc. Then watching us play tough, disciplined defense, outside of the one dumb freshman penalty at the end. Watching our special teams be competent.
I had actually underestimated just how bad the Joe experiment was.
Not only that, but there’s a pretty large contingent on here and throughout the fan base that thought he should still be our head coach. My guess is that most have moved on from that stance, but there were plenty of defenders here as recently as December ‘19.
We could also have Joe Judge.... A great Bulldog who would probably build a good, fundamentally sound team eventually, but this year would have been a nightmare.
It all seems to have worked out perfectly... Which makes me wonder what those dead injuns are up to..
It all seems to have worked out perfectly... Which makes me wonder what those dead injuns are up to..
I wanted Moorhead to be a good coach, and I was okay with giving him one more year. But when we didnt have to call a timeout after receiving the opening kick on Saturday, I converted to thinking that experience matters.
That's a scary thought.
Thank goodness we moved on from Moorhead.
The only two times the thought of Joe crossed my mind this weekend was when I read the two Six Pack threads mentioning him.
I thought about him when I saw our WR's look like Calvin Johnson and we didn't take a timeout before kickoff.
And we looked so much faster on defense.
And we looked so much faster on defense.
Why torture yourself with hypotheticals around us having possibly the worst HC we've ever had? We lived that nightmare for 2 years. Let it go mannnnn
We really hit the lottery to get to win the Egg Bowl AND fire Moorhead. Can't believe it happened. So glad it did.
Think about that statement for a minute.
We win the Egg Bowl and fire an incompetent HC.
The we go hire a proven winner!
The guy was certainly in over his head a little but he's far from the worst coach we've ever had. He was 14-10 in two season regular seasons, beat OM twice and lead us to two bowl games. You only have to go back as far as Croom to find worse.
It's OK to say he wasn't a great fit for us without being all hyperbolic about it.
Glad he's not here, but I'm interested to see how he does as OC at Oregon. His head coaching experiment was a complete disaster. Maybe he's just one of those guys not cut out to be head coach. He always had that deer in headlights look during games which obviously led to the poor time management.
I think he was about the same as croom
They performed about equal relative to their resources. 14-10 is really bad for the players he had and the schedule. Thank God he wasn’t here long enough to match croom’s win percentage, but we were trending that way.
They performed about equal relative to their resources. 14-10 is really bad for the players he had and the schedule. Thank God he wasn’t here long enough to match croom’s win percentage, but we were trending that way.
No there wasn't. There were people who were defending Moorhead for one reason only - because we didn't think there was any chance to get rid of him until after 2021 (it's rare any coach gets fired before 3 years), so I really saw no reason to bash and sow discord until then. I'd rather at least win the basic games we are supposed to win (like Tennessee and Kansas State last year) then go from there, and don't think that recruits aren't watching. They may not have cared about online content in 2005, but they see it now and it matters. I'll never cheer for a team to lose unless I know without a shadow of a doubt that it will cause a change. And to be honest, Moorhead wasn't going anywhere until all that strife from the locker room boiled over during bowl practices.
The guy was a bad fit for us, no question about that. He seems more suited as a coordinator than a head coach. And there was certainly no "large contigent" left in the MSU fanbase that wanted him as our coach in December 2019. That's a myth that myopic fans can't seem to grasp.
ETA: Same thing with Croom. Most everyone knew he wasn't going to work after the Maine game. But I saw no reason to bash until midway through 2006, when it was actually a possibility he might be fired. Turns out, for him, because of other reasons at play, he really had no shot to be fired then either, but still the point stands.
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No one wanted him but once we made the decision for him to be coach after the Egg Bowl - I got behind him.
When you're in the correct position on the field at the start of a play it magically increases your speed.
3 good recruiting classes, which contained the type of players needed to be successful in a passing offense. If you want to be nit-picky about 2018 not being 'as' good, fine, I can grant that, as it was a transition class. But still a transition class that got the best players in Mississippi and has yielded many contributors and solid players.
The Moorhead hire was the worst hire in MSU history. He took a championship caliper team and turned it into dog **** in less than 2 years. Moorhead offensive genius my ***! Leachs left nut has forgot more about offensive football than Moorhead will ever know. Barkley made him look great at PSU!
I encourage you to consider the massive difference in what he inherited and what Croom inherited. If he had gotten 5 years, the program would have been a miserable mess.
I agree he was better, but only in the way that eating a chocolate covered pile of **** is better than one sans chocolate.
I knew he was toast the minute he trotted a still-injured Tommy Stevens out there the game after Schrader beat Kentucky.
True, but then most new hires inherit programs that are in decline and given time to correct. Joe had the fortune/misfortune to inherit one of the most talented teams in our history and after the most successful coach in our history. Its a good thing he did because it became so starkly obvious that he was over his head we were able to identify that and move on before we completely lost momentum from the Mullins era. In more normal circumstances he'd have been hired after a failed coach and given 5 years of losing before we moved on.
Again, that's a fair thing to do in most situations. That's what sucked. We all knew 2021 was going to be awful, but it was nearly necessary for money purposes, our reputation in coaching circles, etc.
But when you add the internal strife, we get a built in excuse, and heads roll.
This certainly did turn the heat up more than normal, which to this day I don't understand why Cohen chose to go that route and squander the 2018 squad. Maybe he felt that team didn't have what it took to win the SEC, and maybe that's correct. We'd have probably went 10-2 with Mullen and while great, it probably wouldn't have given us the satisfaction we wanted.
I am glad that Moorhead was at least able to recruit well enough to keep us relevant and he kept our bowl streak alive, but this would of been the season where it would of completely fallen apart. Even though I defended the guy I think we all realized things were trending downward fast. It seems like everything worked out the way it was supposed to for once. I knew Leach was going to be a good fit, but due to all of the craziness this year I really couldn't get that excited for the football season. Having said that, this was one of the best wins I can remember since I started following State and I now am pumped.
you dumbass....i was here when Charlie Shira was the coach. And fatass moorhead was worse. Shira had no talent...moorhead took talent and turned it into ****.
Admittedly, I never liked Moorhead. I didn't like his playbook from Penn State, and I thought he hadn't earned his stripes to get an SEC head coach job. Following the Florida and then Kentucky game in his first year, it was clear that he didn't have the ability to adjust or respond to what was clearly happening on the field. He just wasn't ready to control an entire college football program.
However, the way we played on Saturday, whether it was against LSU or JSU, was on a different level. Tackling was crisp. DBs seemed to always be covering well (and on a couple longer plays, just a step from an interception). Receivers were getting separation AND holding on to the ball. Everyone was consistently picking up yards after catch.
There was more going on out there than just a different playbook. This is why you hire a head coach and not an OC who can't see beyond his own play sheet.
However, the way we played on Saturday, whether it was against LSU or JSU, was on a different level. Tackling was crisp. DBs seemed to always be covering well (and on a couple longer plays, just a step from an interception). Receivers were getting separation AND holding on to the ball. Everyone was consistently picking up yards after catch.
There was more going on out there than just a different playbook. This is why you hire a head coach and not an OC who can't see beyond his own play sheet.
you are 100 percent correct. I go back to the days of Coach Paul Davis ( before Charlie Shira for you whipper snappers ). Back in the 1960s we had very few SEC athletes. Moorhead had a stable full of athletes and didn’t do anything with them.
I'm one of those that defended him as recently as December 2019. But it wasn't because I thought he was a good coach, it was because I didn't see any way we'd fire him after winning the Egg Bowl and going to a bowl game so I just said the heck with it let's hope for the best. He's our coach until he isn't or whatever. But at the same time I thought a Year 3 under Moorhead would have been 4-8 or 3-9, so admittedly any hope for Moorhead was blind hope after a certain point.
I incorrectly blamed offensive personnel for 2018, and I owe Nick Fitzgerald an apology for that. He wasn't perfect but he was a great Bulldog that had to deal with a lot of crap in his three years as a starter.
2019 was a huge mess from the day the tutorgate suspensions were revealed. Yet even after that I briefly felt that we were going to be OK because Shrader seemed promising and Joe finally realized he needed to give the ball to Kylin. And then the Auburn and Tennessee games with a bye week in between were just unforgivable. He lost the vast majority of his supporters after those two performances (can you even call them performances?)
Payton and Hill basically matched their receiving production from 13 games last year in one day. Mitchell caught 5 passes in his last 7 games last year and then had a monster day Saturday. I realize Costello is better than Stevens or Shrader, and the addition of a guy like Shavers helps too. But dear gosh Saturday did not make Joe Moorhead look good. Especially when you remember that we had an effective (albeit different) offense under Mullen too. We've been at least competent on offense for the last 12 years with the exception of the two years before this one. And it's not just in the production numbers, I think the way we are using Kylin is a big sign of how poorly he was used under Joe. You had this super talented back who has shown to be very versatile, and you threw it to him 10 times all season last year? All while just using him as a battering ram up the middle because you couldn't figure out any other play that would work? That is really bad indictment on Joe too.
I do think Joe is a good person that may turn his career around and end up doing fine in the PAC-12, but history will probably not remember his MSU run kindly. He doesn't even have the benefit of "well at least he cleaned the program up" like people often say about Croom.
I incorrectly blamed offensive personnel for 2018, and I owe Nick Fitzgerald an apology for that. He wasn't perfect but he was a great Bulldog that had to deal with a lot of crap in his three years as a starter.
2019 was a huge mess from the day the tutorgate suspensions were revealed. Yet even after that I briefly felt that we were going to be OK because Shrader seemed promising and Joe finally realized he needed to give the ball to Kylin. And then the Auburn and Tennessee games with a bye week in between were just unforgivable. He lost the vast majority of his supporters after those two performances (can you even call them performances?)
Payton and Hill basically matched their receiving production from 13 games last year in one day. Mitchell caught 5 passes in his last 7 games last year and then had a monster day Saturday. I realize Costello is better than Stevens or Shrader, and the addition of a guy like Shavers helps too. But dear gosh Saturday did not make Joe Moorhead look good. Especially when you remember that we had an effective (albeit different) offense under Mullen too. We've been at least competent on offense for the last 12 years with the exception of the two years before this one. And it's not just in the production numbers, I think the way we are using Kylin is a big sign of how poorly he was used under Joe. You had this super talented back who has shown to be very versatile, and you threw it to him 10 times all season last year? All while just using him as a battering ram up the middle because you couldn't figure out any other play that would work? That is really bad indictment on Joe too.
I do think Joe is a good person that may turn his career around and end up doing fine in the PAC-12, but history will probably not remember his MSU run kindly. He doesn't even have the benefit of "well at least he cleaned the program up" like people often say about Croom.
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