CDC coming clean on COVID scam.

[BriantheDawg]

No. He just has common freaking sense. Something that’s completely void of the libtard community these days.

 

[MeridianDog]

I'd be willing to bet someone else's money that 96% of all, non accidental deaths (and a fair number of accidental deaths have some other factor, such as pre existing medical conditions that combined to tip the scales from a recoverable incident to a death result.

For example, drinking won't necessarily kill you, but drinking and operating a chainsaw might. Operating a chain saw won't necessarily kill you, but operating a chain saw while drinking might.

Same with obesity and covid.

**** - sarchastrics thrown in for those who want to disagree.

 

[mstateglfr]

No, no, no. No moving the goalposts allowed. Either they're effective or they aren't.

I dont understand how my comment moved goalposts.

You claim they arent effective due to outbreaks. I simply said that perhaps the outbreaks would be worse without masks.

That isnt moving the goalposts, its just offering a plausible counter.

 

[mstateglfr]

That's what the left does all the time. The facts have to fit the narrative they want.

Its what people on both sides of an argument do.

 

[ronpolk]

You blamed continued case spikes on the fact that not everyone is wearing a mask. What percentage is the tipping point that takes mask mandates from effective to useless? At what percentage of compliance should we start seeing effectiveness? I hear a lot of conceptualized theories and opinions but no substance from anyone trying to make this argument.

And on your scenario above, I don't believe masks are nearly as effective as we are led to believe, and I think you're just as likely to catch it in either room. And I'm pointing to places where mask mandates are not stopping case spikes as evidence. But your scenario suggests people would be crammed into both rooms. In the real world, you can social distance in a lot of places and reduce your risk of catching anything, making the need for a mask even less. I have no problem with people wearing masks when they can't social distance. But nobody has yet to demonstrate to me that they stop anything.

Where did I blame rising cases on no mask wearing? I’ve never said that. I’ve always clearly been of the mindset that it can’t hurt. I just don’t know any way you can statistically prove they work or don’t work, unless you sew mask to people’s face.

 

[mstateglfr]

Where did I blame rising cases on no mask wearing? I’ve never said that. I’ve always clearly been of the mindset that it can’t hurt. I just don’t know any way you can statistically prove they work or don’t work, unless you sew mask to people’s face.

This. This so many times over.

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

Don't despise! Energize! Find new ways to work, make some extra scratch, and look for ways to help your fellow man, even those that suffer from TDS.

That's how you MAGA, my man!

 

[maroonmadman]

Here's an interesting article. Kinda long and well written so most of you won't read it.

https://www.city-journal.org/does-c...Z-FKyB8VMBTiPNXxDhM6IJSKRLWd2yMX9aUjc43lbQ01k

View attachment 17523

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

Would you drink river water that has only been filtered through one of these cotton masks? It’s going to remove some of the contaminates, right?

And what did you get your degree in? was it at State?

 

[Drebin]

I dont understand how my comment moved goalposts.

You claim they arent effective due to outbreaks. I simply said that perhaps the outbreaks would be worse without masks.

That isnt moving the goalposts, its just offering a plausible counter.

My position: Either they are effective at stopping the spread or they aren't
Your position: Yeah, but....what if......maybe they aren't stopping the spread but they are keeping it from being worse?

That's a textbook example of moving the goalposts. Either they're effective or they're not, period.

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

No, you gave me your opinion on the subject. The numbers don't bear it out. There's no science that backs your opinion. The only science I've seen has demonstrated other health risks brought on by wearing them.

The World Health Organization and the CDC still recommend wearing masks. One could assume they based that on some sort of science... but seriously, what do those 17ers know?

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

Whoa there, Professor!!!

(no seriously, that's a good read. Thanks for sharing)

 

[MeridianDog]

Just to stay factual, the Covid mask is intended to protect others from you, not you from others, which is the function of all of those other masks.

My example is to say a surgical team wears the same kind of fabric or paper masks that you show as the recommended "Mask for the Deadliest Virus in History", not to protect themselves from the insides of their patient, but to protect the patient from them.

Whoever wrote that meme ( I know it wasn't you), also doesn't understand that all influenza is likely mutations of the same virus, just like the 4-6 strains of covid making the rounds today. If you add up the deaths from influenza outbreaks and the covid outbreak deaths, Then influenza mutations have caused many more deaths than covid. I am certain small pox (at approximately 500,000,000 deaths) has killed more than covid. Also a lot more permanent injury.

No one should take covid lightly, because many many have the underlying conditions that help it to kill you. However, the term "Worst ever" is a marketing term used by epidemiologists, or the statements made by a fool.

Thanks for reading the words of an old fart Microbiologist/virologist/Public Health professional/semi epidemiologist. Rant over.

 

[johnson86-1]

I guess in 6 months, we are going to be able to look back and know what worked and whether what we “hoped” worked.

The data keeps pointing to the same end game. There are states with no mandates are dropping just as quickly as those with mandates are rising. (especially looking at hospitalizations and ICU) assuming they have reached the 25000 per million case level. (Roughly)

Look at Illinois with mask mandates, tight restrictions and very little tourism compared to Florida. Florida has no statewide mandate, looser restrictions and plenty of tourism. Illinois is on the way up in cases and recently has more cases per day on average than FL. (on a population adjusted basis.) Hawaii is an even more extreme example, but the same holds true compared to Florida.

In example after example, it appears you end up at same percentage of the population infected and then there is a natural drop in the virus spread and severity. This holds true for state and countries. Certainly case numbers are affected by the amount of testing, false positives/negatives etc, but hospitalizations don’t lie. Sweden is down to 19 in ICU. Much to you know who’s disappointment, they have been back for a couple of weeks from their summer homes and school is in session.

This isn’t to say masks don’t slow the spread, but the numbers seem to indicate that if have to reach “X%” you can get there at 500 cases a day for 100 days, or you can do it at 1000 cases per day for 50.

Which was all explicitly part of the original "flatten the curve" argument. Originally, people pushing that were upfront about the likelihood that the area under the curve wouldn't change, but that spreading the infections out would allow the healthcare system to handle it better.

It really is insane how partisan politics allows people to change the narrative without flinching. People generally remembers a few months ago, yet a sizeable percentage of the population has shifted from flatten the curve to arguing that the virus spreading is a sign of moral failings of the population in question.

 

[SheltonChoked]

Or, you know, you could be an adult and attempt to explain why masks aren't stopping case spikes. Of course you can't, so you have to go the childish route. You lefties are good at that.

I guess I could be you and say they secretly are stopping them but the political pressure is too much.

But unlike you I understand science.

Here are the reasons:

Too many, " but MY RIGHTS" ********.

and
Per reports from contact tracers, people are not wearing the masks correctly. (i.e., people think they are magic force fields and stand too close, Outbreaks are spreading in homes where people are not wearing masks)
and
Cases are increasing in children, which are not wearing masks.
and
masks are making the spikes shorter than they would be without the spikes.

But you listen to the what the secret Drebin voices say.

 

[SheltonChoked]

In Nebraska, a mask mandate was issued for Lancaster county (Lincoln area) on July 20, about 3 weeks earlier than was issued for Douglas county (Omaha area). Similar spread in both areas when the mandates were issued. Charting the new cases over time in both areas, it would appear that issuing a mask mandate was associated with reduced community spread. It doesn't "prove" it (as these are essentially two A-B designs), but the replication of effect at least suggests it. Of course, now that schools are back in session numbers are beginning to rise again.

Drebin has a secret source that says all the Lancaster county positives drove to Omaha to be tested. That it's really secretly the same. He read it on Facebook.

 

[CreekFishin]

Trump says it's OK to do that if you're a star, but if you're not it's the death penalty.

 

[L4Dawg]

"A mask blocks ****" doesn't mean it slows the spread. It doesn't mean it protects anyone. Most of the "****" still goes out because the virus is microscopic and a cloth mask is about as effective at stopping an aerosol spray as it is of stopping poured water.

If masks were effective, we would have seen case numbers drop immediately when mask mandates hit, and we wouldn't see resurgent spikes in places where everyone is wearing one. The latter is currently happening, and the former never happened, and there's really nothing else you can say to change those facts.

Funny, our numbers in Mississippi have started dropping since the mask mandate. The same has happened all over the south. Most spread is airborne droplets, not aerosols. Cloth masks do contain a % of droplets.

 

[mstateglfr]

My position: Either they are effective at stopping the spread or they aren't
Your position: Yeah, but....what if......maybe they aren't stopping the spread but they are keeping it from being worse?

That's a textbook example of moving the goalposts. Either they're effective or they're not, period.

You are arguing something that nobody else is arguing- that masks must either fully work or not work at all.
Masks are not designed or intended to fully stop the spread.


They are effective at slowing the spread, but not stopping the spread.

 

[3407Dewey]

You blamed continued case spikes on the fact that not everyone is wearing a mask. What percentage is the tipping point that takes mask mandates from effective to useless? At what percentage of compliance should we start seeing effectiveness? I hear a lot of conceptualized theories and opinions but no substance from anyone trying to make this argument.

And on your scenario above, I don't believe masks are nearly as effective as we are led to believe, and I think you're just as likely to catch it in either room. And I'm pointing to places where mask mandates are not stopping case spikes as evidence. But your scenario suggests people would be crammed into both rooms. In the real world, you can social distance in a lot of places and reduce your risk of catching anything, making the need for a mask even less. I have no problem with people wearing masks when they can't social distance. But nobody has yet to demonstrate to me that they stop anything.

Drebin, you're a smart guy, but I think you're overlooking the level of difficulty in experimentally demonstrating mask effectiveness in a large-scale study. As mask mandates were going into effect, that was occurring along with opening the economy and increased mobilization (ie. cofounding variables). There also seems to be a false sense of security associated with mask wearing (ie., criterion contamination). Add to that the fact that even the most adamant mask proponents don't claim that masks STOP the spread but can only serve to REDUCE the spread. Bottom line, we're going to have to rely on theory (based on what we know about the virus and how it's spread, would we expect mask use to reduce that?) and small-scale data sets that suggest an outcome. No one is going to PROVE anything in this debate, and "prove" is a high bar that science seldom hits.

 

[L4Dawg]

Based on.............what? Your opinion?

I sense a trend.

Masks do not cause sickness or disease. They just don't. That is flat out junk science. We in healthcare have been wearing them for extended periods for years with no ill effects. I've worn them every working day for over 30 years. Surgeons wear them for hours at a time for days on end. They don't get sick. Your statement that they do has no basis in fact, NONE. They dang sure aren't going to hurt you while you run into the beer store to get your Bud Light.

 

[SheltonChoked]

Facts that debunk your "science":

Japan cases are spiking, despite a national mask mandate.
European countries are seeing spikes, despite mask mandates.
South American countries are seeing spikes despite mask mandates.
Areas of the US, such as California, still see high case counts despite mask mandates.

So much for "science."

You really don't know what the word "Science" means do you?

The Japanese "spike" was 1,100 cases in a nation of 126 million. Mississippi had a spike at the same time of 1,775 cases in a population of 2.5 million. Sounds like masks worked

The European "Spikes" are due to

In a media statement, Hans Henri Kluge, MD, MPH, director of the WHO's European regional office, said eased restrictions and people letting down their guard are part of what's fueling a steady rise in cases. Localized outbreaks are becoming more frequent, often in closed settings such as workplaces, nursing homes, and social gatherings.

The "Spikes" Were Germany with 1,700 cases, and Spain with 3,700 cases.


South Korea had a "Spike" of 200 cases

South American countries are in winter, when Corona virus is worse. And the mask mandate was repealed in Brazil which tells me the it was never enforced. Brazil also has many times more poor living close together. Same in India. People without running water tend to not have the money to spend on PPE.

Any other made up lies you want to spread there Q?

 

[SheltonChoked]

My position: Either they are effective at stopping the spread or they aren't
Your position: Yeah, but....what if......maybe they aren't stopping the spread but they are keeping it from being worse?

That's a textbook example of moving the goalposts. Either they're effective or they're not, period.

I was joking before, but seriously. You don't really know what science is do you?

You think masks were recommended to "Stop the spread"?

Ok you obviously either didn't read my link or did not understand any of it.

Here is the TLR
Without a mask, the probability you'd catch Covid from an infected person is 17%.

If both people are wearing masks, the probability drops to ~5%.

No wonder you think it's all BS. You thought they were magic force fields. How did you think people were able to breathe thru the magic force field?

 

[SheltonChoked]

Masks do not cause sickness or disease. They just don't. That is flat out junk science. We in healthcare have been wearing them for extended periods for years with no ill effects. I've worn them every working day for over 30 years. Surgeons wear them for hours at a time for days on end. They don't get sick. Your statement that they do has no basis in fact, NONE. They dang sure aren't going to hurt you while you run into the beer store to get your Bud Light.

Go easy on him. He thinks masks are magic force fields that block everything. You know there has to be a side effect to that strong a magic that close to your face.

I saw that Harry Potter Documentary series, it might give you gills or turn you into a snake or a werewolf.

 

[SheltonChoked]

They plausibly reduce the viral load, and therefore reduce the severity of infection. For some number of potential infections, the reduction in viral load would be the difference between registering an infection at all versus not. But for others, it is potentially like people that used to try to get limited exposure to the small pox. They still get it, but with mild symptoms that thereafter give them some level of immunity.

More speculatively, it's I guess also possible masks might be more effective in reducing spread by "superspreaders". It seems that some people are particularly effective at spreading the virus while others are relatively non-contagious (which I guess is true for most viruses), such as the person (or at least presumably person and not persons) at the biotech conference that spread it to tens of people. Maybe that's just a result of teh environment and things like AC circulation being particularly bad for concentrating the amount of virus in the air. Or maybe some people's body for whatever reason exhales a particularly high concentration of the virus. If superspreaders spread the virus through moisture droplets, maybe the masks greatly reduce spread by them. If they somehow spread more aerosol particles, then probably not. That's completely out of my ***, so it may be nonsensical. But just a guess at how they could possibly help.

To back your point
Maybe there is an example in History of someone spreading a disease without being affected. Therefore, spreading it to many more people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Mallon

 

[Captain Ron]

Funny, our numbers in Mississippi have started dropping since the mask mandate. The same has happened all over the south. Most spread is airborne droplets, not aerosols. Cloth masks do contain a % of droplets.

and they started dropping in other states without a mandate. They continued to rise for weeks and weeks in states that had mandates like California and Illinois. They have been increasing like crazy (population adjusted) in Hawaii which is still on major lockdown and has indoor and outdoor mask requirements.

Anecdotal at best.

I know I know. MS is much more likely to follow the rules than those states.. yeah right.

 

[paindonthurt_]

HAHAHAHAHAHAH

Clay Travis and Trump......ALT-right.

 

[Cooterpoot]

Masks help if people follow the guidelines. Hate to agree with L4 but it's fact. Doesn't stop it, but it damn sure helps.

 

[paindonthurt_]

See you are doing the same thing right now. You are twisting the info.

“We all know people aren't catching COVID and dropping dead where they stand. They're getting it, fighting it at home for a while, then ultimately dying in a hospital weeks later from a combination of factors. That's what the CDC is telling you. Look how far this Republican from AZ took this misinformation. “

The truth is in the middle. A lot More than 9700 people have died of Covid, BUT it’s likely a lot less than 170,000.

 

[J-Dawg]

Why don’t you ever post about the extreme over reaction form the far left as well? As always the truth is usually in the middle yet here you are pointing out one side.

Me thinks you won't get an answer to this, hatfield.

 

[tommyboy1520]

Stop vs. spread

Add to that the fact that even the most adamant mask proponents don't claim that masks STOP the spread but can only serve to REDUCE the spread.

I don't know where you are, but in my area, the most adamant mask proponents are yelling at everybody to wear one so we can literally stop the virus. People either treat masks as totally worthless or as THE cure for all things covid. There is no in between.

 

[paindonthurt_]

Jason Whitlock thinks Lebron is a biggot.

There are plenty of details abt Jacob Blake rhat libs don’t want to hear.

Are the leaders of BLM not full of hate? They had a guy on tv the other day talking to a crowd abt how he had hurt cops in New York, DC and was going to do it again. THE CROWD CHEERED.

Is mark cuban mad a tucker for the ratings or mad at the nba? Tucker isn’t the reason the ratings are down.

 

[paindonthurt_]

Yet people keep having unprotected sex and we didn’t shut the economy down to stop them.

You want to keep things locked up, but yet you don’t chastise “protestors”. Oh Bc they wear a mask?

Ok do you support a full reopening of the economy if people wear masks when closer than 6 ft?

 

[horshack.sixpack]

It's because using protection isn't 100% effective. #anticondom #antimask #freedom #hoax

 

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

Trump says it's OK to do that if you're a star, but if you're not it's the death penalty.

Nuance is dead. I am sure you have never told a dirty joke or uttered an off color comment among friends either. You must be opposed to Biden as well.

 

[Crazy Cotton]

Holy **** - I did not know that he actually retweeted this. so the president is getting his pandemic analysis from 17ing Q nuts. God save us all.

 

[johnson86-1]

A scam would be one that didn't kill my perfectly healthy cousin who I assure you was a healthy if older guy. He would have lived another 15-20 years but he dead now. Plus, put several of my friends in the hospital, kill thousands and thousands and thousands of compromised people and few healthy ones. I been in recovery myself since the spring and still can't breathe well enough to do much. Note: I tested negative for Covid but I believe I was over it before I tested and was left with pneumonia. I just didn't go to doctor for the first month or so, it was early on before we knew much about it.

This thing is running its course and seems to be slowing down but in no way was this ever scam. Was it sensationalized? Yes, but that's what news is today. FOX does it, CNN does it from opposing sides. They are in the "BUSINESS" of making money and if they sensationalized things they get clicks and views which = $$$$.

Scam indeed. If it kills someone you care about, what excuse you gonna make then?

We don't really have news anymore, strictly speaking. Or at least not mass market news. We have "infotainment."

 

[CreekFishin]

Where is the punch line? "I wish her well".

 

[57stratdawg]

Because Republican disinformation is a bigger problem for this country. Did you see that Trump retweeted a guy saying the Mayor of Portland assassinated someone through ANTIFA? I think he subsequently deleted it, but that isn't happening with Democrats.

Have you ever noticed how many members of the "Lock Her Up" campaign are currently felons? The reasons Republicans are okay with that is a constant bombardment of conspiracy theories and victimization through conservative media outlets & social media accounts. It's not that Trump might be the 'swampiest' President in history. No, it's because the FBI is part of the deep state ever since Hillary Clinton's emails were found on Epstien's island.

 

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

Very compelling argument.