Mail-in voting funding for the USPS

[RocketDawg]

The Democrats want to provide a few billion to the USPS to gear up for widespread mail-in voting.

Isn't the Post Office supposed to be self-sufficient and not receive government funding at all? Everybody at the press conference (including Trump) this afternoon was talking about it being additional funding to that already received; wouldn't it be all the government funding they receive if it's enacted? They get all their revenue from sale of stamps, first day covers, boxes, and other mailing items.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

The post office loses money every year. You taxes go to them to bail them out every few years. Their overhead is much more than what they make off stamps and shipping costs. And in turn you help subsidize Amazon due to cheap shipping costs.

 

[PineGroveBully]

I stumbled upon it several years ago doing research for a town thought to be losing its post office but you can go to their website and see the salary for every postal worker in every post office/mail route in any given district. It was definitely interesting.

 

[Crazy Cotton]

The post office was created to be a public good, like highways, parks and the like. it is one of the essential services the government provides, and is mandated in the Constitution. That's why a citizen in backwoods Oklahoma can send a letter to NYC for the cost of a stamp. I'm all for them charging for profits like Amazon more for taking advantage of that system.

 

[LTblows]

I live in Washington. Mail-in voting is this shizznit. All of America needs this.

 

[KeyserSoze1999]

**** being the key word...like if a piece of **** could take a ****, then mail in voting integrity would be kind of **** that a piece of **** would **** when it *****.***

View attachment 17259

 

[Cooterpoot]

I live in Washington. Mail-in voting is this shizznit. All of America needs this.

I'm in New York. I disagree.

 

[DogStuckAtUM.sixpack]

Mods—Move this post to the Mail Sub.**

 

[GloryDawg]

The problem with USPS their protective territory does not bring in the money any more. With email, online statements and the ability to pay bills on line their cash flow is way down. Then add in they try to undercut pricing form Fed X and UPS. Nothing is profitable. They also have a define benefit plan. This is the most expensive retirement plan out there and that is the reason majority of other companies left the define benefit plan and gone to a define contribution plan. USPS has been run horribly for decades. The US Government can't keep bailing them out. They are going to have to change business plan or go away. If they make the changes they need to then give them the money.

 

[57stratdawg]

Keep in mind when discussing this topic, Congress controls every aspect of the USPS’ financials. They set the prices, they mandated the pension liability.

Think about it like Wal-Mart & Sams Club.

 

[RocketDawg]

Haha. Yes, I agree.

 

[dalmuti]

you kill the post office you kill rural areas first. just the way it is lol

 

[RocketDawg]

In the 50s/60s, a letter cost 2 cents/3 cents to send. Now, it's 55 cents. Inflation hasn't been a factor of 20 since then, but E-mail has hit them hard, as well as Amazon discounts to, presumably, a lesser degree.

One thing I think should be eliminated is the super low rate that junk mail gets. The post office would be a lot more efficient without all the advertising flyers/catalogues that are sent almost free.

Anyway, that wasn't the point of the post. I always thought the PO was self-sufficient without government funding. And yes, they provide an essential service.

 

[57stratdawg]

It also really pisses off seniors.

 

[RocketDawg]

Yes they do. They have to approve postage increases, but then are supposed to be self-sufficient at the same time. Tough assignment.

 

[RocketDawg]

Why?

 

[RocketDawg]

Somewhat related - I was notified that an Amazon order was shipped, and would be delivered after Sept 22. That's 6 weeks - quite a bit of time. We can get to the moon in 3 days. It was shipped via the USPS. Presumably, it's an item from China (Amazon didn't mention that in their writeup), but does that mean that the USPS set up an office in China? Hopefully it doesn't come in full of seeds.

 

[Raiderdawg.sixpack]

This may be fake news, meaning I have not researched the validity of the story, but 2 acts supposedly screwed the post office.

In 1971, the PO was moved from a federal department to a stand alone federal agency that had to fund themselves.

In 2006, congress passed a law that required the PO to pre-fund retiree health benefits without raising operating costs. Supposedly the USPS went from making money before this act to hemorrhaging money after. If they don’t get funding support, the outgoing postmaster general said to expect service issues by the end of the year.

 

[JungRebel]

17 it, we are borrowing trillions of dollars, what's 25 billion for the post office? We are already in Alice in Wonderland territory, might as well ensure granny gets her meds.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

I live in a very rural area and have not bought a stamp in years

 

[FQDawg]

This may be fake news, meaning I have not researched the validity of the story, but 2 acts supposedly screwed the post office.

In 1971, the PO was moved from a federal department to a stand alone federal agency that had to fund themselves.

In 2006, congress passed a law that required the PO to pre-fund retiree health benefits without raising operating costs. Supposedly the USPS went from making money before this act to hemorrhaging money after. If they don’t get funding support, the outgoing postmaster general said to expect service issues by the end of the year.

This is the crux of the issue. Not only does the USPS have to pre-fund retirement, they have to pre-fund it for 75 years. Meaning they’re funding retirement accounts not only for people who don’t work there yet but for people who aren’t even born yet.

This was done by a republican congress and a republican president in an intentional effort to hamstring the USPS to help benefit their competitors (ie, to aid republican donors). No other company in the world has this requirement. If the 75-year requirement were removed, the Postal Service would be perfectly fine.

Also, vote by mail is perfectly safe. Trump literally just requested another absentee ballot from the state of Florida.

 

[WutheringDawg]

https://about.usps.com/who-we-are/financials/annual-reports/fy2010/ar2010_4_002.htm

To piggyback, here’s the post office’s take directly.

 

[Cooterpoot]

The USPS could disappear and no one would miss it.

 

[Shamoan]

USPS is a joke. They lost about 200K in checks for my business about a year ago over a 2 month period...poof, just disappeared without explanation.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

My first cousin, who is a real piece of work,used to be over the service center in Grenada... he was making 6 figures when he retired... they also paid for him to go to alcohol rehab several times... so now he gets full Retirement and I guess he still gets checks for PTSD/Disability... he claimed PTSD from Vietnam War, even though he never saw combat, caused his drinking issues....
Also the custodian at my local post office makes $56k...Postmaster $97K.

 

[xxxWalkTheDawg]

This is the crux of the issue. Not only does the USPS have to pre-fund retirement, they have to pre-fund it for 75 years. Meaning they’re funding retirement accounts not only for people who don’t work there yet but for people who aren’t even born yet.

This was done by a republican congress and a republican president in an intentional effort to hamstring the USPS to help benefit their competitors (ie, to aid republican donors). No other company in the world has this requirement. If the 75-year requirement were removed, the Postal Service would be perfectly fine.

Also, vote by mail is perfectly safe. Trump literally just requested another absentee ballot from the state of Florida.

Just for kicks. Google “mail dumped”. You may initially say that it’s the same story till you look at the dates.

we used to send birthday cards, graduation cards, Christmas cards, etc. with gift cards. A few of them didn’t make it. We started sending them in the priority mail envelopes and they began to all arrive. Someone either in the local office or the Memphis sorting hub was intercepting the cards and stealing the gift cards apparently. When they became less obvious, they stopped getting intercepted.

One question with that said..... if you vote by mail.... how you know your vote counted?

another one... if you initially do not receive your ballot... how you know it wasn’t stolen? And your vote nullified by fraud? how do you ensure that didn’t happen?

And when you dig into it... absentee voting is absolutely different than what is being proposed by national mail in voting. What is also wanted is, like Nevada, people to be able to fill in ballots for other people. Yea. No concerns of any coercion or instances of “granny is just confused... she really wanted to vote for ____” going on.

Finally.... when would we know the results? You know there is STILL a primary election in New York for TWO congressional seats that is still undecided due to mail in voting? Two months without a winner. Is that what we want?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/08/03/nyregion/nyc-mail-ballots-voting.amp.html

 

[TorchingTime]

The USPS could disappear and no one would miss it.

Any veteran getting their medications through Veterans Affairs would miss it, since the VA uses the USPS. Oh wait, that's happening right now.

https://connectingvets.radio.com/articles/usps-delays-veteran-prescriptions-va-working-on-solutions

 

[Cooterpoot]

Any veteran getting their medications through Veterans Affairs would miss it, since the VA uses the USPS. Oh wait, that's happening right now.

https://connectingvets.radio.com/articles/usps-delays-veteran-prescriptions-va-working-on-solutions

Privatization of all shipping would be more efficient. We don't need the USPS anymore. I get 90% junk mail from them already. Bills etc can be handled online. Payments from the government-online.
The post office is more nostalgic than useful.

 

[dorndawg]

Privatization of all shipping would be more efficient. We don't need the USPS anymore. I get 90% junk mail from them already. Bills etc can be handled online. Payments from the government-online.
The post office is more nostalgic than useful.

Kindly direct me to the private company I can use to mail a document across the country in 3-5 days for 55 cents.

 

[dorndawg]

 

[SwampDawg]

Speaking of the Memphis sorting hub ...
My son lived in the apartments on Mud Island (nice area in spite of the name.) I needed to send him a document, so I went to the PO down here and bought one of those PO cardboard envelopes so the document wouldn't be folded. While I was at it I stuck a couple of $20 bills in it just for grins. Well, the envelope made it to his locked, metal mailbox in his apartment complex. It had been cut open very neatly, the document was still inside, but the bills were gone. I notified the PO but of course we never heard anything. I guess the clue was the envelope was very flexible, so the bad delivery person, or sorter or whatever, had an idea what was in there.

 

[o_MrCoachKlein]

Kindly direct me to the private company I can use to mail a document across the country in 3-5 days for 55 cents.

It's illegal for companies to directly compete with the USPS. That's why there are no private companies that do this. They're just another giant bureaucratic agency leaching money from tax payers doing something that could be better handled by a private entity.
What are the Private Express Statutes?

Basically, the Private Express Statutes are a set of laws, some of which date all the way back to 1792, that establish the USPS’ exclusive right to deliver letters in exchange for compensation. From the USPS’ point of view, these laws are necessary to keep private courier services from leeching away business on the most profitable routes and leaving the government to deliver mail on the most expensive routes that usually turn a net loss.

Edit (link to article):
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/26424/why-cant-you-start-rival-post-office

 

[dorndawg]

It's illegal for companies to directly compete with the USPS. That's why there are no private companies that do this. They're just another giant bureaucratic agency leaching money from tax payers doing something that could be better handled by a private entity.
What are the Private Express Statutes?

Basically, the Private Express Statutes are a set of laws, some of which date all the way back to 1792, that establish the USPS’ exclusive right to deliver letters in exchange for compensation. From the USPS’ point of view, these laws are necessary to keep private courier services from leeching away business on the most profitable routes and leaving the government to deliver mail on the most expensive routes that usually turn a net loss.

Edit (link to article):
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/26424/why-cant-you-start-rival-post-office

I'd be interested to see the economics of a company being able to compete from a price/convenience standpoint, but did not know this & appreciate the info.

 

[msstatelp1]

I'd be interested to see the economics of a company being able to compete from a price/convenience standpoint, but did not know this & appreciate the info.

As long as said company has to fund pensions 75 years into the future as Congress mandated USPS has to do then you might get a balanced look. Basically Congress put the USPS into a $72 billion dollar hole in 2006.

 

[mstateglfr]

The Democrats want to provide a few billion to the USPS to gear up for widespread mail-in voting.

Isn't the Post Office supposed to be self-sufficient and not receive government funding at all? Everybody at the press conference (including Trump) this afternoon was talking about it being additional funding to that already received; wouldn't it be all the government funding they receive if it's enacted? They get all their revenue from sale of stamps, first day covers, boxes, and other mailing items.

Somewhat related - I was notified that an Amazon order was shipped, and would be delivered after Sept 22. That's 6 weeks - quite a bit of time. We can get to the moon in 3 days. It was shipped via the USPS. Presumably, it's an item from China (Amazon didn't mention that in their writeup), but does that mean that the USPS set up an office in China? Hopefully it doesn't come in full of seeds.

https://www.ecomcrew.com/why-china-post-and-usps-are-killing-your-private-labeling-business/

This gives a good rundown of how for years the USPS lost money on every small package from China. The USPS entered into an agreement a decade ago and agreed to lose money, but that was because the alternative would have forced them to lose MORE money. They took the lesser of two evils.

Also, your comment about getting to the moon in 3 days is really odd since its so clearly not applicable here. There are no customs locations that a rocket must dock at along the way to the moon. Additionally, if someone paid the same amount for a package to go from China to the US as it costs to go to the moon, it would take less than 6 weeks.
No USPS didnt set up an office in China. China sends it to the US and the two mail organizations communicate with one another so the package can be tracked.

Its tough to be profitable when your pricing and required retirement funding are controlled by outside interests. It means you are constantly choosing the lesser of two evils and thats only when you have a choice at all.

 

[mstateglfr]

USPS is a joke. They lost about 200K in checks for my business about a year ago over a 2 month period...poof, just disappeared without explanation.

Both UPS and FedEx lose not only packages, but entire pallets of product on a regular basis. I have had claims with both this year(as well as prior years) for pallets of product.
So by your account, they too are a joke.


Everyone 17s up. We just tend to focus our ire on the brands we like the least.

 

[o_MrCoachKlein]

As long as said company has to fund pensions 75 years into the future as Congress mandated USPS has to do then you might get a balanced look. Basically Congress put the USPS into a $72 billion dollar hole in 2006.

That's the problem with guaranteed gubmint pensions. When the market doesn't provide the rate needed to meet their impossible targets, they take it from the tax payers. They aren't really ever on the hook to figure it out themselves or go bankrupt like an actual company.

[h=2]USPS Efforts to Transfer Over $100 Billion in Liabilities to Taxpayers[/h]The added cost of maintaining this monopoly equates to an $18 billion gift to the post office every year. There are 143 million taxpayers in the US. This means your annual USPS bill comes out to $126.

https://thinkbynumbers.org/governme...ng-100-million-trees-and-irritating-millions/


It would be hard for a private company to compete without getting the ~15-18 billion a year in 'free' money that they get, but probably could be done or it wouldn't be illegal.


A study released Wednesday by Robert Shapiro, founder of the economic advisory firm Sonecon, finds that in addition to billions in direct subsidies like reduced-rate loans and tax exemptions, the USPS receives “special privileges” worth at least $15 billion thanks to its government-mandated monopoly.

https://www.sonecon.com/docs/studies/Study_of_USPS_Subsidies-Shapiro-Sonecon-March_25_2015.pdf

[h=1]American taxpayers give an $18 billion gift to the post office every year
[/h]https://fortune.com/2015/03/27/us-postal-service/

 

[Russ Wheeler]

It's illegal for companies to directly compete with the USPS. That's why there are no private companies that do this. They're just another giant bureaucratic agency leaching money from tax payers doing something that could be better handled by a private entity.
What are the Private Express Statutes?

Basically, the Private Express Statutes are a set of laws, some of which date all the way back to 1792, that establish the USPS’ exclusive right to deliver letters in exchange for compensation. From the USPS’ point of view, these laws are necessary to keep private courier services from leeching away business on the most profitable routes and leaving the government to deliver mail on the most expensive routes that usually turn a net loss.

Edit (link to article):
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/26424/why-cant-you-start-rival-post-office

I know this may come as a shock to you, but there are some areas in our government that are better served by people who are not solely motivated by profit. I am not sure the USPS is one of those, but the point remains.

I don't think you tea party types would really like the way it looked in the end, if the whole country was privatized.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

I know this may come as a shock to you, but there are some areas in our government that are better served by people who are not solely motivated by profit. I am not sure the USPS is one of those, but the point remains.

I don't think you tea party types would really like the way it looked in the end, if the whole country was privatized.

Truth. All of this.

 

[Shamoan]

we shouldnt use FedEx or UPS for elections either.