Someone explain the leverage college athletes have

[11thEagleFan]

Regarding the type of demands the PAC-12 players are making. If a player refuses to fulfill their obligation to the university, you should drop them and move on. It seems to me that the players have no leverage at all. Unless they’re 3 years removed from high school, they don’t have an alternative football career available. The full cost of attendance at Mississippi State is ~$25,000 per year, which is the economic benefit these players are getting.

Maybe a new approach would be for players to be given the option of receiving the cash value of the full cost of attendance for a given year at an institution. If they exercise that option, no scholarship, no relaxed admission standards, and no free housing. Just a monthly paycheck. No classes that they don’t want to attend anyway. It could work out for the best. Of course, players would still be given the option to take the traditional route and everything that it entails.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Simple answer: Colleges have to show that they at least are hearing what student-athletes are saying if only because they know that future student-athletes won’t attend their universities if they treat their current students badly.

 

[mstateglfr]

If a player refuses to fulfill their obligation to the university, you should drop them and move on.

Thats some bad optics. University sports programs arent a utility that you need and have no choice of competition for. If sports were a utility, then sure you could treat people in the way you suggest and have little repercussions since everyone in an area would still have to use you.
But university sports relies on reputation and recruiting because kids have seemingly endless options.

Optics.

 

[Dog316]

Professional sports have become very political. I rarely watch them. College sports are trending in that direction. I watch and support Mississippi State sports because I love the University, the life long friendships I made there, and appreciate the doors it opened for me. For almost my entire life sports have been unifying. My “tribe” against your “tribe” in a wholesome way (a few nuts sprinkled in). The tribe set aside all differences on game day and pulled in one unified direction. If college sports follow professional sports in becoming a political tool I will opt out of it too. The unifying beauty of the games will be lost.

 

[messageboardsuperhero]

Thats some bad optics. University sports programs arent a utility that you need and have no choice of competition for. If sports were a utility, then sure you could treat people in the way you suggest and have little repercussions since everyone in an area would still have to use you.
But university sports relies on reputation and recruiting because kids have seemingly endless options.

Optics.

I don’t disagree with your post. But my god, I am so sick of the words “optics” or “bad look.”

Can sportswriters and fans not come up with a different way of saying something would be bad from a PR or public perception standpoint? Those phrases have been absolutely run into the ground.

 

[T-TownDawgg]

Optics? How about these optics-

When a player rakes in gobs of recruiting benefits and signs with someone else
When a player signs, is on scholarship and suddenly transfers
When a player opts not to play but still wants his scholarship
Now they want unions and money on top of housing, stipend, food, health care, top notch facilities, oh and free college education, assume little to no risk during a pandemic, and now there may be no football at all

Players have been reaping the benefits of ****** optics without shame for years and now conferences are pushing back with their own options and it “looks bad”?

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Everything is political. Once people realize it, it can be recognized as such and then ignored.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

It looks bad because until recently the players only had power prior to signing athletics scholarships.

 

[ronpolk]

Everything is political. Once people realize it, it can be recognized as such and then ignored.

Exactly. But you see, Joe blow on twitter or a msg board is allowed to have a political opinion and state it. But a pro athlete is supposed to shut up and play ball.

 

[ronpolk]

Regarding the type of demands the PAC-12 players are making. If a player refuses to fulfill their obligation to the university, you should drop them and move on. It seems to me that the players have no leverage at all. Unless they’re 3 years removed from high school, they don’t have an alternative football career available. The full cost of attendance at Mississippi State is ~$25,000 per year, which is the economic benefit these players are getting.

Maybe a new approach would be for players to be given the option of receiving the cash value of the full cost of attendance for a given year at an institution. If they exercise that option, no scholarship, no relaxed admission standards, and no free housing. Just a monthly paycheck. No classes that they don’t want to attend anyway. It could work out for the best. Of course, players would still be given the option to take the traditional route and everything that it entails.

What needs to happen is the NFL needs to stop using college football as their free farm system. NFL needs to adopt similar rules to baseball. Give players the option to monetize their talents right out of high school.

But the NCAA needs to allow players to make money off their name. In America, you should be able to make money off your name if you can do that.

 

[Drebin]

Exactly. But you see, Joe blow on twitter or a msg board is allowed to have a political opinion and state it. But a pro athlete is supposed to shut up and play ball.

Nobody is suggesting that pro athletes can't have opinions. The thing that people conveniently forget is that yes, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but that doesn't guarantee everyone else is going to like it. Pro sports is a business and its not always helpful to express opinions that are bad for business, even though they have the right to express them.

 

[thatsbaseball]

To me, giving a young man a professional option out of high school would be a breath of fresh air. If a kid wants to try pro ball go for it....if he wants to play college ball sign up but realize he's gonna be a genuine STUDENT athlete and if he can't cut it scholastically and socially his athletic skills will get him nowhere. I realize this is not going to happen but again IMO it would be the best for everyone involved in the long run. The game now has deteriorated into an absolute charade driven strictly by $$$$$$.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

To me, giving a young man a professional option out of high school would be a breath of fresh air. If a kid wants to try pro ball go for it....if he wants to play college ball sign up but realize he's gonna be a genuine STUDENT athlete and if he can't cut it scholastically and socially his athletic skills will get him nowhere. I realize this is not going to happen but again IMO it would be the best for everyone involved in the long run. The game now has deteriorated into an absolute charade driven strictly by $$$$$$.

Agree, it's a very simple change and very easy to implement. I don't know why we haven't done it already. I guess it's because it would take action by the professional leagues and they just won't do it. Maybe they will if they can see the oncoming destruction of their college farm league.

Kids can go pro whenever they want, in any sport. If they sign D1, make them stay 2 years instead of 3. Done.

 

[jb1020]

This is the problem

Regarding the type of demands the PAC-12 players are making. If a player refuses to fulfill their obligation to the university, you should drop them and move on. It seems to me that the players have no leverage at all. Unless they’re 3 years removed from high school, they don’t have an alternative football career available. The full cost of attendance at Mississippi State is ~$25,000 per year, which is the economic benefit these players are getting.

Maybe a new approach would be for players to be given the option of receiving the cash value of the full cost of attendance for a given year at an institution. If they exercise that option, no scholarship, no relaxed admission standards, and no free housing. Just a monthly paycheck. No classes that they don’t want to attend anyway. It could work out for the best. Of course, players would still be given the option to take the traditional route and everything that it entails.

You're a good HS baseball player and want to go pro...go for it. there is a minor league system in place with benefits and pay. Want to play in Japan and take your chance, your're free to do so.

You're a good basketball player? Same story, developmental league or or go anywhere overseas. You have tons of options.

You're a good football player? Tough ****, you're stuck. There are no other options for you. You have to go to a college and stick it out 3 years with absolutely no guarantee. Yeah, you get a scholarship and thats great but its still forcing them into a system that ultimately benefits the college way more than the player will ever get.

It would be like telling Taylor Swift or Justin Bieber that they couldn't make money off their talents until they had graduated HS and performed for free for 3 years. They could still perform at the Superdome but only their agents would get paid a cut of the 100 million they made that year. I know its stupid comparison, but thats exactly what its like.

 

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

What needs to happen is the NFL needs to stop using college football as their free farm system. NFL needs to adopt similar rules to baseball. Give players the option to monetize their talents right out of high school.

But the NCAA needs to allow players to make money off their name. In America, you should be able to make money off your name if you can do that.

Unlike Baseball and Basketball, there is a genuine safety risk with kids leaving high school to go straight to the NFL. There are VERY few players in history that were ready to make that jump, and these guys were the elite of the elite ( Bo Jackson, Herschel Walker, Etc.) There aren't multiple guys every recruiting cycle that are ready to suit up in the pros.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

You're a good HS baseball player and want to go pro...go for it. there is a minor league system in place with benefits and pay. Want to play in Japan and take your chance, your're free to do so.

You're a good basketball player? Same story, developmental league or or go anywhere overseas. You have tons of options.

You're a good football player? Tough ****, you're stuck. There are no other options for you. You have to go to a college and stick it out 3 years with absolutely no guarantee. Yeah, you get a scholarship and thats great but its still forcing them into a system that ultimately benefits the college way more than the player will ever get.

It would be like telling Taylor Swift or Justin Bieber that they couldn't make money off their talents until they had graduated HS and performed for free for 3 years. They could still perform at the Superdome but only their agents would get paid a cut of the 100 million they made that year. I know its stupid comparison, but thats exactly what its like.

You need to be pointing your finger squarely at the NFL. If they want to protect their sport, they should try to work out some options like you say. And honestly, no other country plays football so overseas options aren't anybody's fault.

Blaming college is blaming the wrong boogeyman.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

True. Joe Blow needs to realize that's also the case for him and he also needs to realize the experiences of pro athletes may be different from his.

 

[jb1020]

Oh I agree

But I'm sure the NFL and the Power 5 schools are in some sort of cahoots together. Its a system that works out great for the college, great for the NFL, great for ESPN and great for the fans. Screws over the players though. I get the players frustration with it. Its easy to say "take your scholarship and be happy" but there are so many people making millions off these guys that are a blown knee away from being a PE coach at Noxapater HS.

 

[Seinfeld]

This will likely blow some people’s minds, but the kids already have that option, and they’ve had it since the beginning of time. The NFL stating that a kid must be 3 years removed from HS does not in any way prevent an 18 year old from earning a living. So why don’t more amateur athletes get a job outside of the NFL? Because they want big $$$ from the NFL. And why do most kids then turn to college sports rather than temporarily going overseas? Because they’re recruited, given highly valuable scholarships, given the best training/facilities in the world, given TV/viewership platform like no other, and treated like campus gods for 3-4 years. I know it’s nuts, but it’s almost as if they actually are receiving something of unmatched, significant value by going to college. Crazy...

The thing about the NFL is that they’re not preventing any kid from doing anything. They’re simply saying “we don’t want you til you’re ready for our league, and you aren’t ready at 18.” It’s funny how if FedEx requires an MBA or a professional license for a certain job, nobody bats an eye. But when the NFL wants a kid to be physically and mentally ready for their league, they’re somehow preventing said kid from earning a living.

I don’t have any particular issue with the whole “likeness” argument, and I’m fine with a kid earning some cash from that. As far as most of the other revenue demands, however, a lot of these kids are going down a path they don’t want to go down. They’re getting a rare opportunity, and if they don’t want it, there’s a ten mile long line of kids that’d gladly take it off their hands

 

[Megiddo]

Unlike Baseball and Basketball, there is a genuine safety risk with kids leaving high school to go straight to the NFL. There are VERY few players in history that were ready to make that jump, and these guys were the elite of the elite ( Bo Jackson, Herschel Walker, Etc.) There aren't multiple guys every recruiting cycle that are ready to suit up in the pros.

You realize of course that nobody goes from high school straight to the major leagues, right? They'll start off in Rookie-ball, then A (low), A (high) AA, AAA, and then they'll be called up to the big leagues. The point is the kids could sign with the NFL teams out of high school and then instead of college they'd play for a minor league team. College football would still be an option of course, but not the only one for kids, like how baseball does it.

 

[11thEagleFan]

I would like to see Dwayne Johnson and the XFL be the option for the 18-20 year old kids that don’t want to go to college. They would likely get a greater economic benefit (at least in cash terms) than they would get in college. However, I think many would quickly see that ~$50,000 a year to play football at what is essentially a developmental level pales in comparison to the scholarship experience.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

But I'm sure the NFL and the Power 5 schools are in some sort of cahoots together. Its a system that works out great for the college, great for the NFL, great for ESPN and great for the fans. Screws over the players though. I get the players frustration with it. Its easy to say "take your scholarship and be happy" but there are so many people making millions off these guys that are a blown knee away from being a PE coach at Noxapater HS.

Couple of issues here:

1) Who specifically is making the millions? Companies are sure, but who is running this show? It's the coaches, and a select few others. This is not some widespread boondoggle.
2) So let's make it harder on the coaches. Let the kids go pro whenever they want or at a minimum, one year earlier than they already do. So many injuries are avoided that way.

And I agree the NFL and colleges are in cahoots, it'd be silly to think otherwise.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Now just what kinds of jobs are available to 18 year old just out of high school that will allow them to "earn a living" while they wait to go to the NFL ? It's time for the NFL to step up I think the ball is in the NFL's court.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

I would like to see Dwayne Johnson and the XFL be the option for the 18-20 year old kids that don’t want to go to college. They would likely get a greater economic benefit (at least in cash terms) than they would get in college. However, I think many would quickly see that ~$50,000 a year to play football at what is essentially a developmental level pales in comparison to the scholarship experience.

It seems like that 'rookie' league or whatever you want to call it, would have to be closely aligned with the NFL to really work. It can't be totally independent with different rules and such.

 

[Seinfeld]

Trying to compare the ability to get in front of a microphone and sing to being handed a ball right before getting trucked by a 280-lb freight train is the exact reason that you can’t compare football to 99.9% of other careers. You can feasibly be ready to sing in front of a crowd at age 8. You’re not ready to take on Nick Bosa at that age.

You won’t ever get me to deny the fact that the NFL is 100% using the college system. That said, colleges use the allure of the NFL to make money and attract top notch athletes, and amateur athletes use colleges as a path to riches and fame. Coincidentally, it’s the exact same scenario as any college student. Oh, you want to be an engineer? Well, guess what? You’re not properly trained at age 18 with a HS diploma. Nobody minds when GE or BoschRexroth tells a kid that. So said kid then gets “forced” into an education by this logic which can eventually be parlayed into landing a job with a good company 4-5 years later.

This is literally how it works for 90% or more of the college kids and businesses out there. Why is it evil, greedy exploitation for football when everyone gains from the current setup?

 

[ronpolk]

Unlike Baseball and Basketball, there is a genuine safety risk with kids leaving high school to go straight to the NFL. There are VERY few players in history that were ready to make that jump, and these guys were the elite of the elite ( Bo Jackson, Herschel Walker, Etc.) There aren't multiple guys every recruiting cycle that are ready to suit up in the pros.

No doubt. 99% of graduating high school football players have no business playing against the guys in the NFL. That’s why the NFL would have to establish a farm system.

I’m not necessarily advocating for a system like that. We all enjoy watching college football with the talent level the way it is now. But you can’t block all avenues that a college football player has at making money and not expect him to ***** about it.

The NFL has no reason to do something like this though. Current system provides a free version of NFL ready players, some that are already stars and household names by the time they get to the NFL.

 

[Seinfeld]

The same jobs that are available to the rest of us. Oh, they don’t want to install roofing or work at Walgreens while training for the NFL? Fine, go to college like the rest of us where it’s not quite as awful as some like to portray these days

The ball may be in the NFL’s court one day, but it isn’t today. There is zero incentive for them to change a thing, and there won’t be until

A) there is a legitimate alternative to the NFL

Or

B) the college platform starts showing signs of crumbling

I don’t think we’re anywhere near either of those scenarios yet, but I do think that option B is at least raising some eyebrows this year. College sports have more headwinds i. Front of them than just C19 right now

 

[mstateglfr]

Optics? How about these optics-

When a player rakes in gobs of recruiting benefits and signs with someone else
When a player signs, is on scholarship and suddenly transfers
When a player opts not to play but still wants his scholarship
Now they want unions and money on top of housing, stipend, food, health care, top notch facilities, oh and free college education, assume little to no risk during a pandemic, and now there may be no football at all

Players have been reaping the benefits of ****** optics without shame for years and now conferences are pushing back with their own options and it “looks bad”?

A player has little leverage in the process and what you cite are the few exceptions.

- During the recruiting period, a student athlete gets to travel to the university to learn about it. I dont know what 'gobs of recruiting benefits' means, but I assume you are referring to the very few among the best and for a select couple of sports. It works out to be what...1% of all college athletes that get 'gobs of recruiting benefits'? And thats assuming I correctly interpreted what you mean.
- When a player transfers mid-season, it usually isnt a good look for the player. Bad optics for them. Fans ***** about the player and many turn into 5 year olds and refuse to even acknowledge the players exists.
- Is the scenario where a player opts not to play and whats his scholarship even very common? It happens for medical hardship years(med red) and for something like this global pandemic. That isnt bad optics for the player or school to me- its both parties recognizing a **** storm and accepting its an extenuating circumstance.


Also, players who transfer often have to then sit out a year in major sports, which makes their decision anything but penalty free. Many transfers have had to accept also losing a year of eligibility due to it being their second transfer. They could be great people and just looking for a situation that gives them an opportunity to play a game they love for a limited time in life, so they accept giving up 25% of their opportunity.
Transfers are a case by case basis when it comes to optics. Sometimes the student athlete looks bad. Sometimes the coaching staff looks bad. Sometimes neither side looks bad and its mutually beneficial.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

The same jobs that are available to the rest of us. Oh, they don’t want to install roofing or work at Walgreens while training for the NFL? Fine, go to college like the rest of us where it’s not quite as awful as some like to portray these days

The ball may be in the NFL’s court one day, but it isn’t today. There is zero incentive for them to change a thing, and there won’t be until

A) there is a legitimate alternative to the NFL

Or

B) the college platform starts showing signs of crumbling

I don’t think we’re anywhere near either of those scenarios yet, but I do think that option B is at least raising some eyebrows this year. College sports have more headwinds i. Front of them than just C19 right now

The "college football is a business" crowd is just using that as the latest talking point in trying to tear down the sport, and for the life of me, I cannot figure out why, especially the writers. It's like they just got tired of it but are too delusional to think that it will kill their livelihood. And it's possible that many have already been laid off so they want everyone to suffer. I think many of the fans just got sick of losing or something, so they say just nuke the whole thing. If it's not COVID it's CTE. The war on football just seems to rage on, even though it's actually safer now than it used to be. I have a personal friend who's on that wagon. We used to discuss football in detail, now he's simply on the side of 'everything baaaaaad'.

I think it's people that aren't smart enough to find a way to monetize it, or mad at the people who are. Jealousy is a real fuel source for much of the inequality protests/uprisings in this country (and world), since the beginning of time.

 

[thatsbaseball]

And what % of those with true NFL potential would you say are ready to be legitimate college students ?

 

[JMC987]

Exactly. But you see, Joe blow on twitter or a msg board is allowed to have a political opinion and state it. But a pro athlete is supposed to shut up and play ball.

Pro athletes are allowed to have opinions on twitter, kneel on the sideline, expressions on the back of a jersey and painted on the field.......but Drew Brees and Mike Gundy can "Shut up and play ball" with their right wing opinions.

Kylin Hill expresses his opinion on twitter. Hero. Joe BLow brings an old MS State flag to the game.....he will be escorted from the stadium.

 

[Seinfeld]

And that’s precisely what’s so infuriating to me about it. I think that 95% of college athletes and their families appreciate the college system for what it is. A free education, a dream scenario compared to other post-HS options, and for a lucky few... a means to an end(pro sports)

The problem, though, is the families of the kids that know all too well that little Johnny’s playing days will be over after college. They see the money in college sports, and they know that they’ll never see the pro contract that Mahomes just signed. Therefore, they’re desperately looking for a piece of the pie while not realizing one key detail. Mahomes may be irreplaceable, but little Johnny isn’t.

 

[MississippiTexan]

I find it interesting no one has brought up how little minor league baseball players actually make and how different baseball scholarships are in college. Most college baseball players don't receive a full ride, which makes it easier to forgo and take the money to try your luck as a pro. An NFL minor league or the XFL would have to pay substantially more than minor league baseball does to make it worth forgoing a full ride at almost any college for football and it's really not even close, especially if you are going out of state to play.

 

[ronpolk]

I find it interesting no one has brought up how little minor league baseball players actually make and how different baseball scholarships are in college. Most college baseball players don't receive a full ride, which makes it easier to forgo and take the money to try your luck as a pro. An NFL minor league or the XFL would have to pay substantially more than minor league baseball does to make it worth forgoing a full ride at almost any college for football and it's really not even close, especially if you are going out of state to play.

I think that a minor league for the NFL could set wages at what they feel is market. Make that whatever they want and let kids decide what they want to do.