Recruiting ranked 44th....
- Thread starter Ibdancin
- Start date
Outside of the top 10 or so schools, recruiting rankings this year are an absolute crap shoot. There are going to be a ton of misses all over the country. These guys have had no summer camps at schools, which is where a lot of the real scouting goes on, and who knows what kind of scouting will be allowed to take place this season. Next year’s class will be negatively impacted too.
For example, we just got a commit from an OT from outside Tunica. He has apparently never been to any kind of college camp and goes to a not highly scouted school. But watch his film. 6’5”, can really move and plays all the way through the whistle. He should at least be a mid-to-high 3 star but doesn’t even have a rating on any of the sites and therefore doesn’t count towards our ranking.
FWIW, we may be ranked low in the overall rankings, but we are in the top 25 in terms of average ranking per player. And that is with two of our guys currently being unrated and a few others that are probably underrated.
For example, we just got a commit from an OT from outside Tunica. He has apparently never been to any kind of college camp and goes to a not highly scouted school. But watch his film. 6’5”, can really move and plays all the way through the whistle. He should at least be a mid-to-high 3 star but doesn’t even have a rating on any of the sites and therefore doesn’t count towards our ranking.
FWIW, we may be ranked low in the overall rankings, but we are in the top 25 in terms of average ranking per player. And that is with two of our guys currently being unrated and a few others that are probably underrated.
Two of our commits haven’t been rated yet...this year is not a stellar year for Mississippi recruiting... I do like this staff is working Georgia, Florida and Texas.
This is a really bad year in state for defensive talent- at least that we know of right now, because there could be a couple of players slipping through the cracks. Cooper is the only SEC DL in the state that we know of right now, and we are right in the mix for him.
Defensive recruiting IMO is all about getting guys with the right measurables/athleticism, fit in your scheme, and are willing to be physical. It’s easy to spot a Jeff Simmons, but we have had a lot of great defensive players over the years who were three stars. Will this group outplay their rankings? I don’t know and really no one will until they hit the field.
I will say, if the pandemic had happened in the summer of 2012, Chris Jones would probably either be a low three star or not even rated right now. Keep that in mind while you judge recruiting rankings.
We are recruiting Georgia, Florida, and Louisiana as well as we ever did under Mullen and Moorhead. We are recruiting Texas better than we ever have.
The issue is there’s no star power in the state right now (at least that we know of).
The in-state star power is down this year and Leach has recruited a big time QB and some stellar WRs.
Like somebody said above, the pandemic is screwing the camp circuit so who really knows if some of these 3* or unranked guys will end up looking pretty good when all is said and done.
Like somebody said above, the pandemic is screwing the camp circuit so who really knows if some of these 3* or unranked guys will end up looking pretty good when all is said and done.
Correct. I mean, I know it’s not a shock for anyone that follows recruiting to hear someone say that Florida has a lot more HS talent than MS. To put things into perspective for this year, though, FL has 45 kids with a composite of .90 or better. MS has 4. You also have to get down to recruit # 135 in FL before finding a kid below a .85 composite. For MS, it’s # 13
Granted, I have zero doubt in my mind that there are some high quality MS kids flying under the radar right now due to the lack of camps, but this is an especially weak crop of seniors for a state that already has an overall talent disparity most years. If class rankings in the 40s becomes a trend and/or Leach continues to struggle on the defensive side of the ball, we can talk about it at that point, but for now... I think we’re actually seeing very positive signs with Leach going out and getting solid talent out of state. One of these days, when he’s adding kids like Knox, Nabers, and Robertson to a solid MS haul, we could be taking about a Top 15 class
Granted, I have zero doubt in my mind that there are some high quality MS kids flying under the radar right now due to the lack of camps, but this is an especially weak crop of seniors for a state that already has an overall talent disparity most years. If class rankings in the 40s becomes a trend and/or Leach continues to struggle on the defensive side of the ball, we can talk about it at that point, but for now... I think we’re actually seeing very positive signs with Leach going out and getting solid talent out of state. One of these days, when he’s adding kids like Knox, Nabers, and Robertson to a solid MS haul, we could be taking about a Top 15 class
The highest rated player on the SDSU defense last year was an 83. Most of their defensive players were rated in the high 70s. They ranked 5th in total D, 2nd in scoring D, 2nd in rushing d. Something tells me Zach Arnett knows how to coach up talent. (Yes, I know they play in the Mountain West).
Staff’s ability to evaluate and find schematic fits are going to really shine, one way or the other, this year. Like the other poster pointed out, this is a very abnormal recruiting cycle.
I also think you’ll see a whole lot more movement than even normal this year, too. My guess is they won’t have a December signing period, because kids won’t be able to take official visits. So, once (if) they get to start taking visits, you’ll see a lot of de-commits, etc. Right now a ton of these kids are committed to places they’ve never even seen in person.
Outside looking in, I think you all should be very encouraged at Leach and staffs ability to land the QB and WRs that he has, during this unique cycle. It’s a great sign. Also, rankings are pretty irrelevant right now, because you can’t really compare someone with 8-9 commits (like OM) to someone with 20. The two things that matter right now are 1. Schematic fit/need 2. Average star ranking (which gives you an idea of the caliber of your commitments)
Hopefully there will actually be a season and Leach and Kiffin can put their products on the field. I expect both offenses to be dynamic, and both defenses to be sketchy.
I also think you’ll see a whole lot more movement than even normal this year, too. My guess is they won’t have a December signing period, because kids won’t be able to take official visits. So, once (if) they get to start taking visits, you’ll see a lot of de-commits, etc. Right now a ton of these kids are committed to places they’ve never even seen in person.
Outside looking in, I think you all should be very encouraged at Leach and staffs ability to land the QB and WRs that he has, during this unique cycle. It’s a great sign. Also, rankings are pretty irrelevant right now, because you can’t really compare someone with 8-9 commits (like OM) to someone with 20. The two things that matter right now are 1. Schematic fit/need 2. Average star ranking (which gives you an idea of the caliber of your commitments)
Hopefully there will actually be a season and Leach and Kiffin can put their products on the field. I expect both offenses to be dynamic, and both defenses to be sketchy.
Correct. No way to truly evaluate the talent in State this year. The past two years, there was a good crop of HS Seniors in Mississippi. We got some, some got away. The only way to evaluate this year’s seniors is on what little film we have if their junior year. Like someone said, Chris Jones blew up his Senior Year. Fletcher Cox and Jeffrey Simmons we’re established as sophomores.
With defensive players, in a small state like Mississippi, the guys with size and ability will stick out. The year Pearl won the State in 6a, the entire defensive line didn’t have a guy over 220, and the best players went about 200. The startIng corner back, now at Ole Miss, went 5’8”, 160. The best LB was 180# holding an anvil. But they played with strength and speed because so many were on a runner up weight lifting team in the State. Pearl used to win that in every weight class.
IF.....IF there is a high school football season, we may see some seniors blow up, that got bigger and stronger and faster working on their own during the pandemic.
With defensive players, in a small state like Mississippi, the guys with size and ability will stick out. The year Pearl won the State in 6a, the entire defensive line didn’t have a guy over 220, and the best players went about 200. The startIng corner back, now at Ole Miss, went 5’8”, 160. The best LB was 180# holding an anvil. But they played with strength and speed because so many were on a runner up weight lifting team in the State. Pearl used to win that in every weight class.
IF.....IF there is a high school football season, we may see some seniors blow up, that got bigger and stronger and faster working on their own during the pandemic.
MS’ in state group is probably the weakest it’s been in a generation. That’s not helping things. I think the staff overall has done okay all things considered.
That's false. We've just got a ton of kids that haven't been able to be at camps. Now, we don't have the DL talent we normally do but the talent in state is better than some admit because they have to make an excuse. Keyes, Johnson, etc. are commodities most years.
How would you have them do better? Hasn't exactly been an easy time to establish connections and recruit for a staff that came here from as far away as anywhere in the continental US. So, yeah, it's natural that all of the new staffs are struggling and the ones that had deep southern recruiting ties are struggling slightly less.
ETA: I'm afraid this same situation is going to give Mullen and Hevesy all they need to really compete for a national title and perhaps win one. It's concealing their biggest weakness(actual on the road recruiting) while giving them an unlimited amount of time to exploit their biggest strength(evaluation of under the radar types).
ETA: I'm afraid this same situation is going to give Mullen and Hevesy all they need to really compete for a national title and perhaps win one. It's concealing their biggest weakness(actual on the road recruiting) while giving them an unlimited amount of time to exploit their biggest strength(evaluation of under the radar types).
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If true, we better be busting our asses to get some defensive players in from out of state and JUCO, because we are woefully short of both talent and experience on defense right 17ing now, not just 2-3 years from now. That needs to be a top priority for the staff.
Fair- DL and OL recruiting from a ranking perspective do not look great. But again what good DL or OL are in Mississippi this year? Pounders is the best OL in the state right now, and he is committed (I also really like the new addition). Ty Cooper is the only established DL, and we have a good chance of getting him.
While we have done a good job of getting quality in state DL for the past decade or so, when have we ever signed a bunch of highly rated DL from outside MS? I’m not trying to puff up this staff’s recruiting, but given the context of this cycle (first year staff who has not been able to in person scout anyone, working with a never ending dead period, an historically mediocre in state defensive talent class, etc), I just don’t see how any other staff could have done a whole lot better than what we’ve done to this point. It’s kind of the hand they’ve been dealt.
and Covid....there seems to always be an excuse for MSU sports recruiting. I noticed Howland is getting passes from alot of people here lately in recruiting. His recruiting has been on a downward trend since he his 3rd year I don't care what anyone says.
Not sure I totally agree with this. We have some talented young DL (Pickering, Cooley, Banks, Crumedy, Russell, etc). I like our young LBs (Brule, Watson, Groce, Stewart, etc), and we are signing a good JUCO LB to help out the next couple of years.
And yes, our secondary is very young and thin this year, but there is some young talent there. Emerson is really good. Dean, Purvis, Duncan, Forbes, and Richardson are all good prospects. We are also doing pretty well recruiting DBs for this class at the moment.
I’m not saying we have elite, young defensive talent all over the field right now. But the situation is not nearly as dire as you make it out to be.
I’ve always thought we need to recruit more from out of state than what we have in the past. Naturally states like Texas,Florida and Georgia are going to have more recruits because they’re population is so much larger than ours. Heck even Alabama has probably a couple million more people than we do.
It’s a lot easier to coach up 2-stars and 3-stars when they aren’t lined up across from an almost endless supply of 4-stars and 5-stars in 70% of their conference games.
I think it’s possible to be hopeful & positive about Leach’s tenure at MSU and at the same time be slightly worried about recruiting. Leach needed to hire at least 1 more assistant coach that is recruiting oriented. I don’t like the Phelps hire, should’ve gone with a DL coach that has ties to the southeast. That’s the most important position for MSU and is why we’ve had success in the last decade
First- Not even close to 70% of the teams on our conference schedule have an almost endless supply of 4 and 5 star players. We play OM, Arkansas, Kentucky, and another East team every year. So most seasons (assuming we don’t draw UGA or Florida), we play half our conference games against teams that recruit on the same level as us, if not a little worse.
Bama, LSU, and UGA all recruit way better than we ever will, no matter who our coach is. We will always struggle against them regardless of scheme. Auburn and A&M will also recruit better than us too, but they don’t have an endless supply of elite players. If they did, they wouldn’t be the perineal 8-4 programs they have been for several years. We have had some success against those two teams the last 8-10 years, and I expect the same from Leach in time.
Second- SDSU routinely gave Pac 12 teams fits while Long and Arnett were there. While the Pac 12 ain’t the SEC, the talent gap between SDSU and Arizona state or UCLA is a lot bigger than the talent gap between MSU and A&M or Auburn.
It's the same principal as Leach - Leach has done more with less everywhere he has been. Arnett did the same. Arnett and Leach will have more talent day 1 then they have ever had; and will be able to attract better talent then they have ever had. Their ability to coach players up doesn't change just because the players and the level of competition does.
Auburn, Bama, LSU, and A&M are perreniel Top 10-15 recruiters...with 2 of those in the Top 5 more often than not. That’s a bare minimum of 50% of our conference schedule every year that stay loaded with 4* and 5* talent. In the East, UT has started to ascend into that same spectrum this year. Who knows if they can stay there but as of right now they are punching in the same weight class as UGA / UF on the recruiting trail. Then occasionally, you have an OM or USC who will string together a Top 15 class or two, and even when they don’t they may have enough talent to load up one side of the ball and be a problem (think about OM when they had Brown, Metcalf, Wilkins, Knox, and Little all at the same time). So, you’re looking at between 50-75% of teams with loaded rosters at least on offense, depending on the East schedule and given ebbs and flows in the recruiting process. If you want to split hairs on that vs. my original statement of 70%, be my guest. But the same point remains.
As far as Leach, of course he’s always done more with less, but only on offense. He’s never had a great defense in his career, nor has he ever had a lot of talent on that side of the ball vs. the history of whatever school he was at. Arnett is a total unknown (who I do like, but he’s an unknown regardless). There was simply no talent gap of SDSU vs. teams in the MWC, either in their favor or not, that remotely compares to the haves vs. the have nots in the SEC. One thing is for sure, you can’t stop anyone consistently in the SEC without several studs at spread through all 3 levels of your defense, and that is something we are very, very short on right now. If anyone can point out who the Jeff Simmons, Willie Gay, Montez Sweat, Cam Dantzler, Jonathan Abram, Preston Smith, etc. type guys are on this year’s defense, I’d love to know who they are. Our defense was pretty damn bad last year even with 2 guys on that list playing, and now they are gone along with a lot of other folks, and not so much confidence on most of their replacements.
additionally, teams arent having camps and guys that are zero stars arent getting evaluated due to covid.
Pittman was hired for his recruiting, no one knows if he can coach worth a crap or not. On the other hand, Leach has proven he can coach well no matter the talent level most years.
I think we're both in a better spot than Ole Miss at least. State actually has a higher average player ranking than Arkansas...we got a commit from a kicker that made our average go down some. Still a long way to NSD.
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