OT: Brandon,MS.

[Dawg1969]

Does the mentality going around remind people of how Hitler took power in the late 30s? These people don't seem to be able to think for themselves and that's scary to me. I just can not believe a statue bothers people that much. If i'm on MLK Blvd. I don't think twice about it. Just curious.

 

[mcdawg22]

View attachment 16732

 

[RocketDawg]

Is something about a statue happening in the town of Brandon?

 

[Chris Mannix]

We do have an impressive confederate statue right in the middle of downtown, not taking any stance on its fate.

 

[Dawg1969]

Yes. made national news. Some guy has a group that wants it down. mcdawwg22 thinks its this again. Hate to inform him it has stopped. I just don't understand. Guess cause i got shot at so we can sing kumbaya. Yes, i'm glad we are changing the flag.

 

[GloryDawg]

We do have an impressive confederate statue right in the middle of downtown, not taking any stance on its fate.

I live in Brandon but did not grow up there and there is history about that spot. When Sherman came through during is Meridian Campaign that's the spot them made all the citizen come and turn in all their guns. The Union Army commenced to burning the weapons and burned a good portion of town. The statue is not going anywhere. I will be the last in Mississippi to go.

 

[ronpolk]

I live in Brandon but did not grow up there and there is history about that spot. When Sherman came through during is Meridian Campaign that's the spot them made all the citizen come and turn in all their guns. The Union Army commenced to burning the weapons and burned a good portion of town. The statue is not going anywhere. I will be the last in Mississippi to go.

You seem to be having a hard time with some of the confederate imagery getting removed.

 

[Jeffreauxdawg]

I have always noticed there are a shitload of monuments to "Civil War heroes" in the south, but very few of other heroes. Maybe it's time we honor some of the heroes from the wars we fought to protect our nation instead of the one that was fought to divide it.

Maybe it's time to put up some new monuments. Brandon MS should sure as hell have one for this guy if they don't already. Might look good right in the middle of downtown.

General Louis H. Wilson, Jr.
From Brandon MS
Millsaps College Graduate
Medal of Honor WW2
Legion of Merit Vietnam
26th Commandant of the Marine Corps

https://valor.militarytimes.com/hero/2262

 

[GloryDawg]

You seem to be having a hard time with some of the confederate imagery getting removed.

I was good with the flag but i do take issue with statues. Do you live in Brandon and if not why the hell do you care?

 

[GloryDawg]

I have always noticed there are a shitload of monuments to "Civil War heroes" in the south, but very few of other heroes. Maybe it's time we honor some of the heroes from the wars we fought to protect our nation instead of the one that was fought to divide it.

Maybe it's time to put up some new monuments. Brandon MS should sure as hell have one for this guy if they don't already. Might look good right in the middle of downtown.

General Louis H. Wilson, Jr.
From Brandon MS
Millsaps College Graduate
Medal of Honor WW2
Legion of Merit Vietnam
26th Commandant of the Marine Corps

https://valor.militarytimes.com/hero/2262

Most of the Confederate Monuments were put in place by politicians looking to get the support of the UCV. The UCV and GAR were the two most powerful organization in politics up to the point in time when they were all dead. If you didn't get their support you probably wasn't going to get elected.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

What makes opponents of Confederate statues "not able to think for themselves" ? Why isn't it the supporters of the statues that are "not able to think for themselves" ? Do you think that your set of opinions just happens to have some kind of mystical monopoly on well-informed, open-minded people?

Are you saying that it just isn't possible for someone to carefully and consider all angles of the statue issue and come to the conclusion that they should come down? And that in fact it's SO bad for someone to thoughtlessly and vapidly have that opinion that it's comparable to Nazi Germany​? Give me a break...

 

[dog12]

What makes opponents of Confederate statues "not able to think for themselves" ? Why isn't it the supporters of the statues that are "not able to think for themselves" ? Do you think that your set of opinions just happens to have some kind of mystical monopoly on well-informed, open-minded people?

Are you saying that it just isn't possible for someone to carefully and consider all angles of the statue issue and come to the conclusion that they should come down? And that in fact it's SO bad for someone to thoughtlessly and vapidly have that opinion that it's comparable to Nazi Germany​? Give me a break...

QuaoarsKing, these questions are not directed at you specifically, but I thought this was a good place to put it.


Can someone explain to me how a "Civil War" statue is offensive?

I know that there are many different types of "Civil War" statues:
- a statue of a specific person (e.g., Jefferson Davis);
- a statue of a generic confederate soldier (no specific person);
- a "memorial" statue (maybe not even a person, just some sort of symbol).

Are some of these offensive and others are not?

Certainly, the Civil War is a part of American history. I think we can all agree to that.

Do the offended people want to erase completely any reference to the Civil War?

 

[ronpolk]

I was good with the flag but i do take issue with statues. Do you live in Brandon and if not why the hell do you care?

No, I don’t live in Brandon. I didn’t even know Brandon had a confederate statue until a few days ago, so it’s not something I’m extremely passionate about but I do think the confederate monuments could find a better home than a downtown square. Why should we have statues to honor a country that fought a war against the United States?

Per google, this is what one side of the statue says:
“ States' rights and home rule truth crushed to the Earth will rise again. Men die, principles live forever. Although conquered we adore it; weep for those who fell before it; pardon for those who trailed and tore it."

I just don’t believe the principles fought for in that war should be honored and certainly not rise again.

 

[PineGroveBully]

Do the offended people want to erase completely any reference to the Civil War?

I have wondered this myself. HBO removing “Gone with the Wind” from its library, do you want people to forget that there were slaves and a war that freed those slaves. If I’m not mistaken the first black person to ever win an Oscar was the slave woman. Why would anyone “woke” want to have the movie with this historical achievement to be brandished from history when her portrayal could be celebrated? And full disclosure I have seen the movie only once and can’t remember if her character was portrayed in an inaccurate light.

 

[MrKotter]

I just don’t believe the principles fought for in that war should be honored and certainly not rise again.

So you're one of those who believes the Civi War was about slavery and Lincoln was against slavery? It wasn't and he wasn't.

 

[PineGroveBully]

I kinda fit in this camp. I have multiple ancestors that fought in the civil war. As far as I can find they did not own slaves though their ancestors did. I’m proud of those soldiers but I’m glad they lost the war, even though that stance pisses some of my family off. The whole war of northern aggression is retarded as the south fired on those “aggressors” at Fort Sumpter. I really don’t have a passion one way or the other as far as confederate statues outside of say a battlefield memorial such as Shiloh which I visited on the 4th. It’s akin to loyalist erecting statues of William Gage or Cornwallis around the Boston area, though I do see a slight difference if the statues are of people from a particular town, but that isn’t the case for most confederate statues.

 

[PineGroveBully]

Lincoln was very much against slavery. Now at the beginning of the war he didn’t have intentions of freeing the slaves but of saving the union but saying he wasn’t against slavery is asinine.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

So you're one of those who believes the Civi War was about slavery and Lincoln was against slavery? It wasn't and he wasn't.

The South fought the Civil War to preserve slavery (see the secession ordinances), and the North primarily fought it to keep the Union together.

Lincoln was personally opposed to slavery, but was willing to allow it to continue in the Southern states only if the country would stay together and no new slave territory were added. As we know, he emancipated the slaves in the South and was instrumental in getting the 13th Amendment passed through Congress, which banned slavery everywhere, although he was murdered before enough state legislatures ratified it.

History is complex and nuanced. You ought to look a little deeper than you currently are.

 

[ronpolk]

So you're one of those who believes the Civi War was about slavery and Lincoln was against slavery? It wasn't and he wasn't.

I’m sure it was not the only reason but I do believe it was the primary reason or most important factor for the south.

I don’t care what “facts” you’re going to throw at me. All I have to do is read the articles of secession from each state. Every one I’ve ever read, typically mention slavery very very early in the document. There is a reason for that.

 

[Apoplectic_Objurgator]

The South fought the Civil War to preserve slavery (see the secession ordinances), and the North primarily fought it to keep the Union together.

Lincoln was personally opposed to slavery, but was willing to allow it to continue in the Southern states only if the country would stay together and no new slave territory were added. As we know, he emancipated the slaves in the South and was instrumental in getting the 13th Amendment passed through Congress, which banned slavery everywhere, although he was murdered before enough state legislatures ratified it.

History is complex and nuanced. You ought to look a little deeper than you currently are.

You both said the same thing. Woke don’t allow nuance or complexity

 

[QuaoarsKing]

QuaoarsKing, these questions are not directed at you specifically, but I thought this was a good place to put it.


Can someone explain to me how a "Civil War" statue is offensive?

I know that there are many different types of "Civil War" statues:
- a statue of a specific person (e.g., Jefferson Davis);
- a statue of a generic confederate soldier (no specific person);
- a "memorial" statue (maybe not even a person, just some sort of symbol).

Are some of these offensive and others are not?

Certainly, the Civil War is a part of American history. I think we can all agree to that.

Do the offended people want to erase completely any reference to the Civil War?

No one is "erasing" any history. The Civil War should be taught in history classes, shown in museums and documentaries, etc.

But a state or local government putting up a statue implies some kind of place of honor, and the Confederacy, which was formed 100% to preserve slavery and was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans, should not be honored with any public statues.

Imagine if there were an unsuccessful Communist rebellion within the US that took years to put down and killed half a million soldiers. Would it be appropriate for cities to put up statues and monuments to honor these Communists? Didn't think so.

 

[MrKotter]

You ought to look a little deeper than you currently are.

Same could be said for you. Pop open more than a school approved history book and you might learn something other than popular opinion.

 

[PineGroveBully]

The secession articles have nothing to do with school approved books. Those are SOUTHERN state approved works. Your point of view is the popular opinion of most in the south, not his.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

I have wondered this myself. HBO removing “Gone with the Wind” from its library, do you want people to forget that there were slaves and a war that freed those slaves. If I’m not mistaken the first black person to ever win an Oscar was the slave woman. Why would anyone “woke” want to have the movie with this historical achievement to be brandished from history when her portrayal could be celebrated? And full disclosure I have seen the movie only once and can’t remember if her character was portrayed in an inaccurate light.

It was only removed for a few weeks and is already back. They have added a disclaimer about slavery to the beginning.

If I were in charge of HBO, I probably would have added the disclaimer without ever pulling it, but I don't know what kind of advertiser relationships they were trying to manage.

 

[Dawg1969]

I want to clarify something if I can. The civil war monument in Brandon is not the issue. The Hitler reference is the riot mentality and wanton destruction going on around the country. Yes, it bothers me. Guess I cannot make my brain understand the logic if their even is any.

 

[patdog]

So, what was it about then? Cause it sure seems like it was about slavery to me.

A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union.
In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin. That we do not overstate the dangers to our institution, a reference to a few facts will sufficiently prove.
The hostility to this institution commenced before the adoption of the Constitution, and was manifested in the well-known Ordinance of 1787, in regard to the Northwestern Territory.
The feeling increased, until, in 1819-20, it deprived the South of more than half the vast territory acquired from France.
The same hostility dismembered Texas and seized upon all the territory acquired from Mexico.
It has grown until it denies the right of property in slaves, and refuses protection to that right on the high seas, in the Territories, and wherever the government of the United States had jurisdiction.
It refuses the admission of new slave States into the Union, and seeks to extinguish it by confining it within its present limits, denying the power of expansion.
It tramples the original equality of the South under foot.
It has nullified the Fugitive Slave Law in almost every free State in the Union, and has utterly broken the compact which our fathers pledged their faith to maintain.
It advocates negro equality, socially and politically, and promotes insurrection and incendiarism in our midst.
It has enlisted its press, its pulpit and its schools against us, until the whole popular mind of the North is excited and inflamed with prejudice.
It has made combinations and formed associations to carry out its schemes of emancipation in the States and wherever else slavery exists.
It seeks not to elevate or to support the slave, but to destroy his present condition without providing a better.
It has invaded a State, and invested with the honors of martyrdom the wretch whose purpose was to apply flames to our dwellings, and the weapons of destruction to our lives.
It has broken every compact into which it has entered for our security.
It has given indubitable evidence of its design to ruin our agriculture, to prostrate our industrial pursuits and to destroy our social system.
It knows no relenting or hesitation in its purposes; it stops not in its march of aggression, and leaves us no room to hope for cessation or for pause.
It has recently obtained control of the Government, by the prosecution of its unhallowed schemes, and destroyed the last expectation of living together in friendship and brotherhood.
Utter subjugation awaits us in the Union, if we should consent longer to remain in it. It is not a matter of choice, but of necessity. We must either submit to degradation, and to the loss of property worth four billions of money, or we must secede from the Union framed by our fathers, to secure this as well as every other species of property. For far less cause than this, our fathers separated from the Crown of England.
Our decision is made. We follow their footsteps. We embrace the alternative of separation; and for the reasons here stated, we resolve to maintain our rights with the full consciousness of the justice of our course, and the undoubting belief of our ability to maintain it.

 

[PineGroveBully]

I think a lot of people that aren’t necessarily “pro” statue sort of share your sentiment if I’m reading your post correctly. Just like the flag change, if the statues are to be removed I want it done because a civil discussion has been had and it’s the right thing to do, not because they were forced to do so by Monday mentally. (Should say “mob” mentality)

 

[PineGroveBully]

Good, I didn’t realize they are returned it to their library. And I’m sure you are correct that much like the removing of “Live PD” they were doing so to get out ahead of advertising backlash.

As far as the disclaimer, that’s just retarded and unneeded. Much like there there is no need to put a “we do not condone antisemitism” disclaimer to “ Schindler’s List” or “The Diary of Anne Frank.” But I’m sure it was done to relieve heat from advertisers more so than it being warranted.

 

[dorndawg]

I think a lot of people that aren’t necessarily “pro” statue sort of share your sentiment if I’m reading your post correctly. Just like the flag change, if the statues are to be removed I want it done because a civil discussion has been had and it’s the right thing to do, not because they were forced to do so by Monday mentally.

That Monday mentally is THE WORST*

 

[PineGroveBully]

Nice, stupid spellcheck

 

[Chris Mannix]

I live in Brandon but did not grow up there and there is history about that spot. When Sherman came through during is Meridian Campaign that's the spot them made all the citizen come and turn in all their guns. The Union Army commenced to burning the weapons and burned a good portion of town. The statue is not going anywhere. I will be the last in Mississippi to go.

I drive by that statue pretty much everyday, also as a tax paying citizen of Brandon I want it removed. Move it to a museum or a battlefield, but it is not something that I want to see stay up. That is just my personal opinion, no disrespect to the burning of the town.

 

[Bcash2]

So you're one of those who believes the Civi War was about slavery and Lincoln was against slavery? It wasn't and he wasn't.

View attachment 16745

 

[archdog]

Does the mentality going around remind people of how Hitler took power in the late 30s? These people don't seem to be able to think for themselves and that's scary to me. I just can not believe a statue bothers people that much. If i'm on MLK Blvd. I don't think twice about it. Just curious.

No it reminds me of the period of time after world war II, when both Germany and Italy worked to take down their symbols of oppression and racism.
Think for yourselves? From my point of view, you are not thinking for your self.

 

[archdog]

Lincoln was very much against slavery. Now at the beginning of the war he didn’t have intentions of freeing the slaves but of saving the union but saying he wasn’t against slavery is asinine.

Pretty straight forward. Watch youTube Oversimplified video on the civil war. Matter of fact, watch all his videos. He does a great job of giving a funny overview of battles. My personal favorite is the Emu War.

 

[archdog]

So you're one of those who believes the Civi War was about slavery and Lincoln was against slavery? It wasn't and he wasn't.

Wow. Not even sure where to begin with this statement. It possibly may be the most inaccurate statement I have seen on a message board. Dude isn't presenting an opinion here. He straight up stating "facts". It's sad. Not really sure how a person with critical thinking skills and possibly college educated, does not understand that the civil war was fought over slavery. Hell man, the 20 years leading up to the war was pretty much all about slavery. Every major policy passed referenced the balance they were trying to keep, that is until the free states took a demanding lead.

 

[Dawg1969]

Let me put in a little food for thought. I was a slave! Got drafted. Master feed me, clothed me, let me have $20 a month. I did what master told me to do. Can't say it was a lot of fun, but i'm not out trying to be uncivilized, just trying to make the best of my life that I can and be a law bidding member of society.

 

[patdog]

One thing to remember about these Civil War statues. Most of them were put up in or around the 1890s to early 1900s and were a product of the same Daughters of the American Confederacy movement to whitewash the Civil War (by claiming it was a war of norther aggression and slavery was a minor issue) as our former state flag was. If we have to have a monument honoring the Civil War, how about one of the true hero of the war, Ulysses S. Grant.

 

[mcdawg22]

Yes. made national news. Some guy has a group that wants it down. mcdawwg22 thinks its this again. Hate to inform him it has stopped. I just don't understand. Guess cause i got shot at so we can sing kumbaya. Yes, i'm glad we are changing the flag.

Man, I’m just here to party.

 

[Bcash2]

wow.

 

[PineGroveBully]

I have an idiotic Ole Miss fan “friend” on Facebook that a couple years was in an uproar about MSU renaming their library after Grant and snuffing out the south’s confederate heritage. I had fun telling him “no you genius, State is receiving Grant’s presidential papers, ie his presidential library.“ He must have accidentally deleted the post as it was soon gone.