Soccer - offsides rule discussion

[Irondawg]

Since we have nothing better to talk about...

In the "what rule would you change" threat I mentioned eliminating off-sides in soccer. I'm a soccer rules novice and some tried to educate me and it helped.

http://www.soccertrainingsolutions.com/what-would-happen-if-there-were-no-offside-in-soccer/

But I still think it could be tweaked. Since the article uses football comparison, imagine if the WR couldn't run past the deepest safety until the pass was in the air. Deep bombs, fast breaks, etc - the concept of getting behind the defense adds a lot of excitement to games.

I see some of the counterarguments but when watching the women's world cup there was so many beautiful goals where players were 6 inches offsides. It's got to be near impossible for the refs as well to keep with in real time on the really close ones. Maybe you have some sort of "no offside before this line" concept or no offside after the ball is controller on the offensive half of the field. Just something to help the offensive out slightly.

Other thing is it seems soccer has gotten increasingly physical and that's start to take away from skill plays. Imagine if the Golden State Warriors, who are fun to watch with their passing and cutting, had to play the Bad Boy Pistons under 90's officials. Curry and Durant would have gotten beat to a pulp and all the flair that makes them fun to watch would be totally lost because defenders were constantly grabbing, pulling, hip checking, etc.

It's frustrating to try and watch soccer games and see somebody make a great move and then see that advantage completely negated by a tug, push, shoulder tackle that isn't deemed bad enough to stop play.

I'll hang up and listen as I'm trying to get into watching higher level soccer as my kids are growing up playing it.

 

[Maroonthirteen]

It would completely change the game.

if you want to make soccer more exciting, make the goal 10x10. Goals would go up.

 

[af102]

A few responses-

1. I can tell you don't have a soccer history context if you think the game is getting more physical. If you watch film of games from games 30+ years ago, there are tackles that happen with no foul that would be a red card these days. The older players that are now talking heads on English broadcasts love to talk about how soft the current game is.

2. I do think the offsides rule has gotten more confusing because of tweaks made recently. It either needs to be you are on-sides if any part of you is even with the last defender or you are offsides if any part of you is beyond the last defender. The comparing my furthest foot to your back hip while we run in different directions is silly.

3. Calling offsides is incredibly difficult to do in real time, but professional refs still get it correct the vast majority of the time. VAR catches most of the ones that are missed now, so you don't get screwed by a missed offsides call like you did a few years ago. I think the majority of people that hate offsides have only really been exposed to the rule in kid's soccer where it is missed frequently. Watch this video if you want to see some of the tests American pro refs have to take on offsides https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K_Hl5Y6lSI

4. If you have ever played indoor soccer, the lack of offsides makes the game very lacrosse like. There is no point in offering much resistance in the middle of the field when players can just camp by the goal. It's not a huge problem in indoor, though, because the field is so small you can pretty much shoot from anywhere. The larger outdoor field would exacerbate the problem.

 

[Jeffreauxdawg]

I have never played or cared one lick about soccer. If you got rid of offsides and used a real clock I could dig it.

 

[af102]

I actually want to change the way the clock works as well. There was a study done a few years back that showed having 2 30 minute halves where the clock stopped when the ball was out of bounds/not in play would result in the same "game time" with no incentive to waste time during stoppages. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jun/17/football-rule-makers-reducing-games-60-minutes

 

[patdog]

I do agree that with the VAR, the offside call can get pretty ridiculous and is disallowing goals that should stand. I think the answer is to clarify the rule that you have to be "clearly offside" to be offside. Not sure exactly if "clearly" is 4 inches or 6 inches, but if you have to draw a line to decide if a player is offside, he's not offside.

As others have mentioned, soccer has always been a physical sport. And it used to be a lot more physical than it is now.

By far the most frustrating rule in soccer is intentionally fouling a player when he's in an advantage situation (they don't call it a fast break in soccer, but essentially in a fast break situation), it's just a yellow card. One of the most exciting moments in a game is when a player is pushing the ball forward for a real goal scoring opportunity and he's intentionally dragged back and nothing happens. They need something like the proposed orange card, which would send the player committing the foul off for a time, similar to the penalty box in hockey.

 

[VegasDawg13]

I see some of the counterarguments but when watching the women's world cup there was so many beautiful goals where players were 6 inches offsides.

If you allow them a 6-inch (or 1-meter or whatever) "cushion," you're still going to have players that accidentally go just beyond that cushion, so you'll still end up having goals disallowed over a few inches.

Maybe you have some sort of "no offside before this line" concept or no offside after the ball is controller on the offensive half of the field.

Someone who knows more about soccer tactics than me can correct me on this, but I think that would still encourage the defending team to just park their defenders in front of the goal all the time, leading to a less, not more, exciting game.

The bottom line is, if you aren't cool with the rarity of goals, that's fine, but you just aren't going to like soccer. The 0-0 games can definitely be complete bores sometimes, but it is what it is. Scoring against a well-organized defense is just really, really hard.

 

[Irondawg]

I do agree that with the VAR, the offside call can get pretty ridiculous and is disallowing goals that should stand. I think the answer is to clarify the rule that you have to be "clearly offside" to be offside. Not sure exactly if "clearly" is 4 inches or 6 inches, but if you have to draw a line to decide if a player is offside, he's not offside.

As others have mentioned, soccer has always been a physical sport. And it used to be a lot more physical than it is now.

By far the most frustrating rule in soccer is intentionally fouling a player when he's in an advantage situation (they don't call it a fast break in soccer, but essentially in a fast break situation), it's just a yellow card. One of the most exciting moments in a game is when a player is pushing the ball forward for a real goal scoring opportunity and he's intentionally dragged back and nothing happens. They need something like the proposed orange card, which would send the player committing the foul off for a time, similar to the penalty box in hockey.

yeah I don't care for that one bit either as there are so few opportunities and many are stopped in their tracks by someone willing to take a yellow and the reward for the defending team is way worth penalty unless it's your best player's second yellow.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

This may be a foolish question, but there's no offsides rule in basketball, but that doesn't lead to centers camping by the goal, so are we sure that camping by the goal would be the right strategy in no-offsides soccer?

Have there been experimental games or leagues to test what would happen?

 

[patdog]

There actually was an experimental 60-minute game played by a couple of lower division pro teams in Germany a few years ago with no offside rule. Players pretty much separated into offensive and defensive players and camped at one end of the field or the other with a bunch of long balls from one end of the field to the other. The final score was 1-0. Back in the 1960s Ajax (one of the top teams in the Netherlands and a regular Champions League club) played a similar game that finished with a 2-1 score.

 

[rem101]

The center camping by the goal would leave the lane wide open and leave you 4 on 5. That would be like the goalie camping at the other ends goal, which isn't what would happen. You'd be able to leave a forward down though, who isn't coming back to play defense anyway.

Also, big difference in 94 feet vs 110-120 yards in getting from one end to the other.

 

[VegasDawg13]

I realize you're asking this because you're actively trying to get into the sport, so I don't mean to direct this at you necessarily...

Does this phenomenon exist in any other sport, where non-fans of the sport constantly say a particular, core rule of the game should be changed?

Like are there a bunch of non-football fans out there clamoring for the elimination of the forward pass? Non-baseball watchers that think 3 strikes is too many? What is it about offside in soccer?

 

[Cousin Jeffrey]

if you want to make soccer more exciting, make the goal 10x10. Goals would go up.

A soccer goal is 8x24. Your suggestion would cut the goal area in half.

 

[Cousin Jeffrey]

I have never played or cared one lick about soccer. If you got rid of offsides and used a real clock I could dig it.

Just because you don’t understand the offsides rule because there’s no analogue in “American” sports doesn’t mean the rule should be done away with. The link in the original post offered a good explanation for why it would not make the game better.

Removing offsides would force tactical changes that would not make a better game.

 

[RocketDawg]

But it would result in taller goal keepers. **

 

[goodknight]

Make them all gender neutral.

 

[Maroonthirteen]

This may be a foolish question, but there's no offsides rule in basketball, but that doesn't lead to centers camping by the goal, so are we sure that camping by the goal would be the right strategy in no-offsides soccer?

Have there been experimental games or leagues to test what would happen?

In the rec league, you can always spot the coaches that have no clue because they park two backs on the 18. So they basically have no defense on the counter attack.

to me, it was more equivalent to a football coach putting two safeties on the 10 in case someone breaks a long run or pass.

 

[Dawgg]

This may be a foolish question, but there's no offsides rule in basketball, but that doesn't lead to centers camping by the goal, so are we sure that camping by the goal would be the right strategy in no-offsides soccer?

Have there been experimental games or leagues to test what would happen?

Basketball does have lane violations though.

 

[L4Dawg]

Just because you don’t understand the offsides rule because there’s no analogue in “American” sports doesn’t mean the rule should be done away with. The link in the original post offered a good explanation for why it would not make the game better.

Removing offsides would force tactical changes that would not make a better game.

It's always newbie Americans that want to change it. Once you understand it it's pretty simple, and it makes the game better.

 

[Maroonthirteen]

8ft by 8 yards. Change to 10ft x 10 yards.

 

[tenureplan]

excuse me, but this is a sports and politics board.

 

[III.sixpack]

As a regular viewer of the English Premiere League I can say that VAR has been a complete failure when it comes to offsides. The video officials are interpreting offsides using an eyelash as the measuring standard. This has disrupted the flow of the game with long video review delays (does this sound familiar.) There has been a lot of discussion of changing offsides to a daylight standard. So, offsides would only by called if the attacker is completely behind the last defender. I think that would be an outstanding change and would be much easier to officiate. Note: I stopped refereeing Hi School and College games when I had aged to the point that, when running line, I could no longer keep up with the deepest defender on breakaways. That was hard to admit.

 

[The Peeper]

Exactly. I thought watching soccer was bad (even when it was my kids playing) but seeing it discussed on a message board, holy crap.........

 

[fishwater99]

This may be a foolish question, but there's no offsides rule in basketball, but that doesn't lead to centers camping by the goal, so are we sure that camping by the goal would be the right strategy in no-offsides soccer?

Have there been experimental games or leagues to test what would happen?

There is 3 seconds in the lane rule to keep that from happening. Keep offside in soccer, it's a good rule.