Since I felt we needed some more MJ vs LeBron talk

[Seinfeld]

I remember the last episode of Last Dance pointing out that Jordan’s Bulls eliminated more 60 win teams(7) from the playoffs than any other franchise. That got me thinking about not only the differences in rings between MJ and LeBron, but also the quality of competition.

So we all know that LeBron has 3 titles in 14 legit seasons. Jordan got 6 in 11. However, here’s some interesting playoff opponent data.

LeBron’s competition through 14 playoff runs had a combined winning % of 63% while Jordan’s was 65%. Not a big difference, but the performance breakdown against said competition is pretty telling.
Against teams winning under 55 games in the regular season, LeBron feasted. Against teams winning 55 or more, LeBron was 50-53 while getting knocked out 50% of the time.

Jordan? 57-38 while winning 13 of 18 of those matchups. I’ll also add that those 5 losses were all very early in his career against absolutely elite Celtic and Piston teams as we all saw in the documentary.

To summarize, LeBron may be the most athletically gifted player to ever step foot on the court. When it comes to being the absolute best player on the planet when it matters, however, MJ will always be the GOAT.

 

[Drebin]

I remember the last episode of Last Dance pointing out that Jordan’s Bulls eliminated more 60 win teams(7) from the playoffs than any other franchise. That got me thinking about not only the differences in rings between MJ and LeBron, but also the quality of competition.

So we all know that LeBron has 3 titles in 14 legit seasons. Jordan got 6 in 11. However, here’s some interesting playoff opponent data.

LeBron’s competition through 14 playoff runs had a combined winning % of 63% while Jordan’s was 65%. Not a big difference, but the performance breakdown against said competition is pretty telling.
Against teams winning under 55 games in the regular season, LeBron feasted. Against teams winning 55 or more, LeBron was 50-53 while getting knocked out 50% of the time.

Jordan? 57-38 while winning 13 of 18 of those matchups. I’ll also add that those 5 losses were all very early in his career against absolutely elite Celtic and Piston teams as we all saw in the documentary.

To summarize, LeBron may be the most athletically gifted player to ever step foot on the court. When it comes to being the absolute best player on the planet when it matters, however, MJ will always be the GOAT.

It's really not close.

I wish he could have been more gracious retrospectively in the documentary, but that attitude is a big part of what made him who he was.

Just think of all the big time stars (some of the NBA's greatest) who never got to win a title just because they happened to play in the era of Michael Jordan. The ones who finally did had to wait for Jordan to leave the game to get there.

 

[Nunya.sixpack]

elite Celtic
.

....and he smoked them, individually. that was some of his most entertaining highlight reel material.

 

[57stratdawg]

Jordan's supporting cast was so much better though outside maybe a couple LeBron teams. It's not like Jordan was single-handily winning titles his first 5 or 6 years in the league. It took quite a supporting cast to get Jordan over the hump.

That Bulls team won 50+ games without him. That'd be like adding LeBron to last year's Rapton or 76ers teams. They'd be pretty dominate.

 

[Seinfeld]

You’re right, it’s not. People are gonna argue til the end of time about the talent around guys like Jordan and LeBron, but knowing that LBJ had guys like Wade, Bosh, Allen, Kyrie, and Love in their prime at one point or another, it’s hard for me to cut him much slack.

At the end of the day, MJ did significantly more in significantly less time, and he did it “step on your throat” convincingly

 

[KentuckyDawg13]

Not even debatable, two different positions and different eras. Jordan is the GOAT.

 

[Seinfeld]

You’ll never hear me argue that Pippen wasn’t the best 2nd fiddle of all time. Defense, scoring, size, ball handling... he may not have had the flair or killer mentality of Magic or LeBron, but he was an absolute freak of nature that could do it all.

That said, James is now going on 8 years with some combination of Wade, Allen, Bosh, Love, Irving, and now AD. These are all either HoF or at a minimum 1st team All NBA level players in their prime, so it’s really hard for me to cut LeBron much slack over a lack of talent around him. He’s had elite talent around him for nearly as many years as MJ’s entire career. Plus, with the one exception of Grant, you’d be hard pressed to find any Bulls player that went on to do anything of notice after they left MJ, so it’s very fair to ask... were these players really great or did MJ make them great? Lastly, I’ll point out that the Bulls team that won 50 games without Michael was also in significant danger of not even making the playoffs the following year until MJ returned.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Lebron has been the head coach and GM

Jordan's supporting cast was so much better though outside maybe a couple LeBron teams. It's not like Jordan was single-handily winning titles his first 5 or 6 years in the league. It took quite a supporting cast to get Jordan over the hump.

That Bulls team won 50+ games without him. That'd be like adding LeBron to last year's Rapton or 76ers teams. They'd be pretty dominate.

Of every team he’s been in since middle school. There is only one person to blame for the talent around him, which has been very good most of the time.

 

[Dawg1979]

Let Jordan play in today's NBA. he scores 65/game and has nights of 90. the fouls are ridiculous now days. Jordan and Co. got their asses beat on every single night. if LBJ gets looked at wrong by Spike Lee, he goes to the line. LBJ could have played in Jordans day, but he wouldn't be what he is today without the fouls called like they are. i'm not saying he isn't tough, but Jordan was making the shots with the hard fouls, LBJ is getting 2 shots a lot of the time.

Jordan is the greatest to ever play the game. Period. and his attitude grew with time. he was a humble player his first 2 or 3 years in the league, but when he realized he WAS the league, you can't help but have your attitude change. esp after all the press and people started following him everywhere. could you imagine not being able to do anything without hundreds of people following you, watching you, trying to just touch you. you couldn't pay me enough. literally, you couldn't pay me $100 million a year. not worth it.

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

From around 88-93 the league was as deep as it’s ever been including today, and I think it’s pretty deep right now.

 

[dog12]

MJ will always be the GOAT.

For the foreseeable future, to argue otherwise is madness.

Maybe someday Jordan will be overtaken as the GOAT . . . but it hasn't happened yet.

 

[DAWG61]

Skewed stats. Nobody argues LJ's Cavs or Heat are better than MJ's Bulls so why use team winning % stats. There's no question mark cause I don't want an answer. This argument is tired and nobody is changing either sides opinion ever. LJ goat though. Bye.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Wouldn’t it have been easier

Skewed stats. Nobody argues LJ's Cavs or Heat are better than MJ's Bulls so why use team winning % stats. There's no question mark cause I don't want an answer. This argument is tired and nobody is changing either sides opinion ever. LJ goat though. Bye.

To just not phrase it as a question?

 

[Dawgg]

Skewed stats. Nobody argues LJ's Cavs or Heat are better than MJ's Bulls so why use team winning % stats. There's no question mark cause I don't want an answer. This argument is tired and nobody is changing either sides opinion ever. LJ goat though. Bye.

So literally all of your takes are bad, regardless of subject matter, huh?

 

[VegasDawg13]

Let Jordan play in today's NBA. he scores 65/game and has nights of 90. the fouls are ridiculous now days. Jordan and Co. got their asses beat on every single night. if LBJ gets looked at wrong by Spike Lee, he goes to the line. LBJ could have played in Jordans day, but he wouldn't be what he is today without the fouls called like they are. i'm not saying he isn't tough, but Jordan was making the shots with the hard fouls, LBJ is getting 2 shots a lot of the time.

I agree Jordan is better, but Lebron is incredibly strong and durable. There's no reason to think he wouldn't have also thrived in a more physical era.

 

[Dawg1979]

I agree Jordan is better, but Lebron is incredibly strong and durable. There's no reason to think he wouldn't have also thrived in a more physical era.

Completely agree. i just meant that LBJ doesn't take it as well as Jordan did. maybe if he played then, he wouldn't have been quite as tenderfooted. i would have liked to see him play in that era for sure.

 

[catvet]

MJ is the greatest player of all time. Period. So what if he is an ***? Tiger is worse. Brady is right there and a total *******. The competative drive, will to win and total distain for those who dont want the same, makes them who they are.

 

[messageboardsuperhero]

Lebron is probably the 2nd most gifted player every. Number 1 is Wilt Chaimberlain, and it isn’t all that close. This coming from a guy who wasn’t even born until years after Wilt retired.

 

[Chuck Yeager]

So literally all of your takes are bad, regardless of subject matter, huh?

Seems like it. MJ would smoke LJ one-on-one. Blow right past him and steal ball everytime LJ put it on the floor. Too much speed/quickness on O & D.

 

[SheltonChoked]

Let Jordan play in today's NBA. he scores 65/game and has nights of 90. the fouls are ridiculous now days. Jordan and Co. got their asses beat on every single night. if LBJ gets looked at wrong by Spike Lee, he goes to the line. LBJ could have played in Jordans day, but he wouldn't be what he is today without the fouls called like they are. i'm not saying he isn't tough, but Jordan was making the shots with the hard fouls, LBJ is getting 2 shots a lot of the time.

Jordan is the greatest to ever play the game. Period. and his attitude grew with time. he was a humble player his first 2 or 3 years in the league, but when he realized he WAS the league, you can't help but have your attitude change. esp after all the press and people started following him everywhere. could you imagine not being able to do anything without hundreds of people following you, watching you, trying to just touch you. you couldn't pay me enough. literally, you couldn't pay me $100 million a year. not worth it.

This.

Trying to guard Jordan with the current rules on handchecks? They would have to change the rule back. He'd score at will. Current rules in the 90's, Half of Jordan's shots he was fouled. He would have lived at the FT line shooting a +1.
Not even mentioning that if the 3 pointer was a valued then as it is now he'd have been an elite 3 point shooter.

 

[Lawdawg.sixpack]

 

[DAWG61]

If you want everyone to agree with all your opinions stick to Boomers.com

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

I can understand LeBron's supporters loyalty because of his play, but when you watch The Last Dance and see how defense used to be played and the caliber of players enforcing it, I still believe LeBron has a much harder time getting the same numbers.

Athletes are better as a whole today, but the Pistons wouldn't have a player left in the game any night with today's officiating, and they weren't the only ones that played rough.

 

[boatsandhoes]

Seen them both play. It’s not close, and I don’t give a freak about the era.

Jordan by miles and miles and miles