🔒 Mask wearing

[Bcash2]

Yea I see this often too. It bugs the **** out of me. I live in a VERY liberal city, and the behavior I see runs the gamut. From people out for a trail run not wearing a mask cause you're never within less than 30 feet of another person (that's me), to a guy by himself riding his bicycle down the street with what looks to be a gas mask on. People in their cars by themselves with the masks on is the worst.

 

[Shmuley]

CJ is alluding to the left's appeal to extreme argumentation. "The counter-panic narrative must be silenced!"

 

[Drebin]

He might be a genius or a quack. I don't really care for purposes of this discussion.

I proposed a set of very reasonable questions and would like to know your gut instinct answer. I won't post research or articles. They are simple questions with simple answers. What are yours?

Here's my response to your questions:

1. No, I don't have it.
2. There's no settled debate on this. It's obvious that if you sneeze a loogie, your mask is going to catch it. But cloth is porous and the virus is microscopic, so you are still expelling it into the air whether you're wearing a mask or not.

Nobody really knows anything. CDC came out this week saying that you are less likely to catch this from touching hard surfaces. And this is after weeks and weeks of hearing that this thing can live for an unheard of number of hours on a hard surface. CDC has changed their opinion on masks a couple of times.

My point here is not to say you should wear a mask or you shouldn't. My point is so many people here are beating the drum that everyone needs to wear one, and if you disagree, you're an *******, or if a doctor says it doesn't work, they get discredited.

If you feel like you need to wear a mask, wear a damn mask. If you're not and you sneeze in wal mart, I seriously doubt you're infecting three aisles worth of people. The apocalyptic and dire descriptions of this thing have been proven less and less true as we've gone through this.

In short, I'm going to use common sense. And everyone else should too.

 

[Dawg1976]

I see people walking at a park in Meridian wearing a mask. Seems crazy to me when your outdoors and not close to anyone. But indoors in close conditions....I'll wear one.

 

[dorndawg]

The guidance only recommends wearing a mask when you can't practice social distancing. So by all means, if you're riding on the subway, wear a mask. If you can maintain distance from folks, you don't need to wear one.

Yall aint gonna believe this but Drebin is wrong here.

"In addition, CDC also recommends that everyone wear cloth face coverings when leaving their homes, regardless of whether they have fever or symptoms of COVID-19. This is because of evidence that people with COVID-19 can spread the disease, even when they don’t have any symptoms."

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/cloth-face-coverings-information.pdf

 

[ckDOG]

I was honestly just picking. I wear one when out in crowded places just on the off chance that it helps someone else. I mean logically I can see that it would stop non-microscopic level spittle and such, but I think there is likely a lot of invisible water vapor that carries right on through with virus in tow.

I'm with you.

The psychology of this is just crazy. The only anti mask argument I can buy being sold right now is "I don't have to wear one and I won't". Can't argue with that. Can't and won't make you.

The other arguments against effectiveness are a little more suspect or are very politically biased. Crazy how we are so polarized have tied something as simple as this into our political identities. Such a simple harmless object with explosive reactions - online at least. I've been pleasantly surprised with my conservative community's mask wearing compared to what I read here.

 

[L4Dawg]

so basically, what you are suggesting is that for the remainder of your natural days on this earth, you'll forever wear a mask when in public spaces.

good on you.

Don't be an idiot.

 

[L4Dawg]

This. It ain't complicated. Wear a mask, keep some distance from others, and let's go!

This was basically the point.

 

[L4Dawg]

Vaccine.... the common cold is a Caronavirus, and we don’t have a vaccine for it.

We have never really tried, plus there are hundreds of viruses that cause colds, most are not coronaviruses.

 

[L4Dawg]

A word from Dr. Michael Osterholm about cloth facemarks .........................................................................................................
Dr. Osterholm is Regents Professor, McKnight Presidential Endowed Chair in Public Health, the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP), Distinguished Teaching Professor in the Division of Environmental Health Sciences, School of Public Health, a professor in the Technological Leadership Institute, College of Science and Engineering, and an adjunct professor in the Medical School, all at the University of Minnesota.

"While many people are going out in public with cloth masks, Osterholm says the perceived protection they offer just isn't there. Cloth masks, I think, are at the very bottom of the list. They have little impact if any. But they've become basically something that people feel like they have to do or want to do it. If they want to do it, go ahead." In many areas, though, it's no longer a matter of whether you want to do it or not. In Michigan, masks are mandatory in any public place, including grocery stores. The mayor of Stillwater, Okla., rescinded a mask order after it was discovered that employees trying to enforce it were threatened with physical violence. Dr. Osterholm ended his discussion about masks on The Morning News with Dave Lee by saying they just aren't that helpful in normal public places. "I can tell you right now I don't believe that they play any major role in either preventing me from getting infected if I use it or if I am infected and don't know it. I don't have any symptoms. They don't protect those around me when using it."

The evidence is starting to be against him, but the article was talking about surgical masks, otherwise known as level one masks.

 

[L4Dawg]

This is not a statement on masks, but on morons. To the 20-something year old woman who almost ran me off the road yesterday because you were wearing your mask while driving in a vehicle with NOBODY else in it, but on your 17ing iPhone and swerving all over the place...17 YOU. You wear a mask to protect you from dying and then get in a 2 ton piece of metal hurtling at 60 MPH at other objects while on your cell phone. You're a genius.

I work on peole with sharp objects while wearing one. Does that apply to me?

 

[L4Dawg]

Review article says it "could" be helpful. The author does not address exhalation valves (may as well wear nothing if your intent is to protect others), nor is any real world study cited for people wearing under real world conditions. The studies cited in the main simply test the filtration ability of the covering and does not test for leakage or fit. The article doesn't address beards, lack of fit-testing, etc. Also having the same filtration capacity of a surgical mask means nothing without telling what the filtration capacity of a surgical mask is. Surgical masks are intended to block large particles and splashes and sprays not 1 micron sized virus. Try again.

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/personal-protective-equipment-infection-control/n95-respirators-and-surgical-masks-face-masks

You obviously didn't read the article I posted. The main mode of transmission is now thought to be large droplets and splashes. YOU try again.

 

[L4Dawg]

Here's my response to your questions:

1. No, I don't have it.
2. There's no settled debate on this. It's obvious that if you sneeze a loogie, your mask is going to catch it. But cloth is porous and the virus is microscopic, so you are still expelling it into the air whether you're wearing a mask or not.

Nobody really knows anything. CDC came out this week saying that you are less likely to catch this from touching hard surfaces. And this is after weeks and weeks of hearing that this thing can live for an unheard of number of hours on a hard surface. CDC has changed their opinion on masks a couple of times.

My point here is not to say you should wear a mask or you shouldn't. My point is so many people here are beating the drum that everyone needs to wear one, and if you disagree, you're an *******, or if a doctor says it doesn't work, they get discredited.

If you feel like you need to wear a mask, wear a damn mask. If you're not and you sneeze in wal mart, I seriously doubt you're infecting three aisles worth of people. The apocalyptic and dire descriptions of this thing have been proven less and less true as we've gone through this.

In short, I'm going to use common sense. And everyone else should too.

Common sense says wear a mask. There is no reason not to. It increasingly looks like there is very good evidence to do it.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Ahhh. I'm a bit slow. No news there...

 

[L4Dawg]

Want to actually do something to increase the chance that we have football and have spectators there to see it? Wear a mask. Even if it doesn't do a dang thing to help control the virus, which it DOES, it will still help. If people actually start following suggestions then the government might actually allow a bit more than they would otherwise.

 

[Shmuley]

The article addresses N95s, surgical, and cloth. The quoted segment is his discussion of cloth, not surgical.

 

[ckDOG]

I think our ideas of common sense are probably similar

Here's my response to your questions:

1. No, I don't have it.
2. There's no settled debate on this. It's obvious that if you sneeze a loogie, your mask is going to catch it. But cloth is porous and the virus is microscopic, so you are still expelling it into the air whether you're wearing a mask or not.

Nobody really knows anything. CDC came out this week saying that you are less likely to catch this from touching hard surfaces. And this is after weeks and weeks of hearing that this thing can live for an unheard of number of hours on a hard surface. CDC has changed their opinion on masks a couple of times.

My point here is not to say you should wear a mask or you shouldn't. My point is so many people here are beating the drum that everyone needs to wear one, and if you disagree, you're an *******, or if a doctor says it doesn't work, they get discredited.

If you feel like you need to wear a mask, wear a damn mask. If you're not and you sneeze in wal mart, I seriously doubt you're infecting three aisles worth of people. The apocalyptic and dire descriptions of this thing have been proven less and less true as we've gone through this.

In short, I'm going to use common sense. And everyone else should too.

We are probably going to agree that distance is your friend and the longer the distance the less masking we need and that a mask is probably going to reduce the distance a virus (or enough of it to matter) will travel. Common sense. Wearing a mask at all times or refusing to wear a mask altogether are both way out of the world of common sense.

I'm not going to pick on the CDC too much. Their role in this is to err on side of caution. Policy makers are the ones that need to react as appropriate. I have acquaintances well credentialed in medicine, epidemiology, and virology and their personal opinion has consistently been more in line with what the CDC says now: main transmission is respiratory/downplay physical touch and casual conversations. Basically - you need to walk through the remnants of a cough or sneeze to get it. That's not concrete - but we should only be concerned with the main methods of transmission and get that right before moving on to the nits.

That said, their personal opinion is able to be less hedged and I suspect had you made them own an opinion as "national expert", they too would have been more cautious. Is what it is and we tend to be more reserved if millions of people might lean on our expertise.

What I will pick on is the media's interpretation/hype of what the CDC says. Too much doomsday and not enough context. The CDC (or other reputable source) will throw out a cautionary scenario of a couple million deaths if we don't change some behaviors. The media will headline that "CDC predicts millions of deaths" and the general population runs with it. Hype and sensationalization are never conducive to an educated population capable of making well thought out reaction in epidemic. You just end up with folks that are scared of everything and the natural counter to that - folks that aren't with that and would rather just roll the dice. I don't want to live in either of those worlds.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Well, I completely blame myself for the virus. When it first hit China and images began to hit news feeds, I recall talking to some friends and laughing that it would take way more than that for American vanity to take a backseat to safety and us actually see people walking all over with masks on. I was wrong. Twas not the first time in my life.

 

[Cooterpoot]

I believe everyone has a right to choose whether they wear a mask or not. But at some point, you want to do right by your fellow man too. Feel free to disagree. I also believe they should abide by the rules of the business if they require it, without acting a damn fool. Just go somewhere else with your business.
I'm not wearing one if I can be out without others close by. Screw that hot **** in the MS heat!

 

[ckDOG]

Agree. I was responding to a hypothetical

The flu has mutated multiple times in different strands, and antibodies don't stop it. Antibodies are stopping this so far and it's not mutated to something that antibodies don't stop, so a solid vaccine is at a minimum promising. This isn't the flu.

The flu mutates more. Antibodies are effective. There's little out there that would make you think a vaccine won't be successful. I'm very high on a vaccine being available beginning in 2020.

To take antibodies a step further, google TD4+ T cells. Describing it is above my pay grade but point being: our bodies have a lot of stuff going on with it from prior exposure to coronavirus (and it doesn't have to be sars or mers) that are very beneficial for us as a herd. We are likely closer to vaccines and/or herd immunity than a lot of folks are comfortable advertising right now.

 

[L4Dawg]

The article addresses N95s, surgical, and cloth. The quoted segment is his discussion of cloth, not surgical.

The evidence even on cloth is starting to be against him. The main mode of transmission is increasingly looking like larger airborne droplets. A contagious person wearing a cloth mask is less likely to expel them as far wearing any kind of mask. Obviously the better the mask the better it is. NO mask will stop it all. This is about reducing chances, not eliminating them. I've seen good stuff that says we could get this to below epidemic level till we have vaccine if 80% of the population would wear surgical masks in public. Heck, if you are like me you look better with one on anyway.

 

[L4Dawg]

The flu mutates more. Antibodies are effective. There's little out there that would make you think a vaccine won't be successful. I'm very high on a vaccine being available beginning in 2020.

To take antibodies a step further, google TD4+ T cells. Describing it is above my pay grade but point being: our bodies have a lot of stuff going on with it from prior exposure to coronavirus (and it doesn't have to be sars or mers) that are very beneficial for us as a herd. We are likely closer to vaccines and/or herd immunity than a lot of folks are comfortable advertising right now.

I think we get one sooner than the usual time. I doubt it will be 2020 though. The amount of effort going on on this world wide is Manhatten Project level.

 

[Bucky Dog]

So then I’m ok if I don’t wear a mask in public and if I sneeze or cough, I do so in my cloth shirt or cloth rag?

Also may have been mentioned but CDC says yesterday that all spread is human to human and not likely surface to human.

 

[Shmuley]

This is the same CDC that apparently told Cuomo to have hospitals discharge Covid-positive nursing home residents back to their respective nursing homes. So ..........

 

[L4Dawg]

So then I’m ok if I don’t wear a mask in public and if I sneeze or cough, I do so in my cloth shirt or cloth rag?

Also may have been mentioned but CDC says yesterday that all spread is human to human and not likely surface to human.

That is NOT what the CDC said and no you aren't ok.

 

[RocketDawg]

The medical experts, who know a lot more about viral transmission than I do, highly recommend that we wear masks and that they are effective in mitigating Covid transmission (which we may have and not know it at the time), so I will wear a mask when appropriate (which is pretty much anywhere except my house, my yard, and on the golf course). I can't imagine what the big deal is. Wearing a mask is not a symptom of lack of manliness, if that's the "reasoning".

 

[L4Dawg]

The medical experts, who know a lot more about viral transmission than I do, highly recommend that we wear masks and that they are effective in mitigating Covid transmission (which we may have and not know it at the time), so I will wear a mask when appropriate (which is pretty much anywhere except my house, my yard, and on the golf course). I can't imagine what the big deal is. Wearing a mask is not a symptom of lack of manliness, if that's the "reasoning".

I don't get it either. It's simple, cheap, and makes me look better. It also helps out my fellow man. No brainer.

 

[RocketDawg]

Very well stated.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

I’m sorry I’m not wearing a mask when I’m outside in the wide *** open. That’s just plain stupid.

 

[RocketDawg]

Doesn't matter at this point whether or not masks are effective in slowing or stopping the spread. From the beginning the direction on them has been inconsistent, poorly communicated, and politicized; thus the general credibility on the topic is beyond repair for too many people to expect masks to be voluntarily implemented to an effective degree. As is the case with many other COVID19 talking points that could have been helpful.

I don't think the mask issue has been poorly communicated - all the folks in the know say wear them.

I think it would help a lot though if people like President Trump and VP Pence would wear them, like they tell everybody else to do. They need to set the example. There's probably no danger of them passing along the disease since they get tested daily, but it's the optics that count in this case.

 

[RocketDawg]

No need to when you're out in the open, unless you're in the midst of a crowd (like at a game of some type).

 

[RocketDawg]

I'm going to give it a month or two before going to a restaurant too, just to see if things get substantially worse. If a person is young and healthy, dining out may be fine.

 

[RocketDawg]

I doubt wearing the facemask had anything to do with her poor driving, but there's certainly no need to when you're in a car alone or with close family members.

 

[RocketDawg]

I hope you continue to wear a mask, especially if you're cutting on me.

 

[RocketDawg]

Hell I have been out to eat six times and gone to gym 12 times since the governor opened things back up. I don't wear mask and I am not scared. I will not live in fear. I might go eat Chinese food tonight.

That might be your downfall. But I understand grilled bat is pretty tasty. **

 

[RocketDawg]

You probably can test that fairly readily. For one, try to blow out a candle wearing a mask. There are also some photographic methods that should show any mist or water vapor coming through the mask. If you smoke, take a drag then blow it out without a mask; then do the same wearing the mask and compare the two.

 

[RocketDawg]

I believe everyone has a right to choose whether they wear a mask or not. But at some point, you want to do right by your fellow man too. Feel free to disagree. I also believe they should abide by the rules of the business if they require it, without acting a damn fool. Just go somewhere else with your business.
I'm not wearing one if I can be out without others close by. Screw that hot **** in the MS heat!

Unless required by law, I guess you have a right to not wear a mask. But a store also has the right not to let you in unless you're wearing one and require you to keep it on. Costco does that. But as you say, you really need to think about your fellow man.

 

[RocketDawg]

I played golf today, and one of my golf buddies (an Alabama fan, and who probably has been listening to Tucker Carlson or Hannity) asked, "Well, isn't Covid about like the flu?". Uh - no, it's not. It's several times more contagious.

 

[engie]

Common sense says wear a mask. There is no reason not to. It increasingly looks like there is very good evidence to do it.

Where is this "increasingly very good evidence"? I'd like to read about it. Scientifically and mathematically, of course. So it can reaffirm what you call "common sense".

"The mask catches the big droplets" -- yeah, so does gravity. Lest we all be wearing face protection every time we step up to a templeton trough awaiting piss in the eyes. So what percentage are these different forms of masks catching? What percent of expelled virus is getting hung up there? To what extent are they changing the viral distribution in the air? Those are the actual numbers that I need to see before I rush to comply with a directive that's changed 3 times already. A directive that's being put out by people that would love to see our whole culture modified in a cold and distant manner in order to curb diseases -- people that have felt that way for decades -- and finally have the podium they need for influence. Yes, I question their motive. And also their view of the bigger picture that they accuse me of being unable to see.

"It's good, common sense so why would you not?" Because no one has explained a mask's effectiveness in such a way that registers in my little tiny brain I guess. Telling me that it works and is a good idea just isn't going to cut it for me. I'm sorry. It's never been how I am wired. Show me how it works and to what extent. Scientifically and via the rules of physics. I reserve the right to change my mind and viewpoint with compelling ACTUAL evidence. But no one is providing it for me. Just the same inconsiderate toolbags in the grocery store blocking the whole aisle and moving at a snail's pace while refusing to get out of anyone's way calling me an ******* back here on the internet for my lack of consideration for them. And around and round we go.

Additionally, I haven't been within "6 feet of a stranger for a prolonged period of time" since this whole deal began. Hence no "contacts". But go ahead and provide the science and we'll see where we end up.

 

[Drebin]

So is your link from this week, last week, or the week prior? Because it changes all the time. Of course you know that, but you won't admit it because the last thing you'd want to do is be honest about anything, especially if it means a chance to celebrate getting ol' Drebin.

I will follow the guidance posted by my employer that states "wear a mask when you are unable to practice recommended social distancing."