Younguns, Jordan was the GOAT

[T-TownDawgg]

This ESPN show is bringing back some memories I've forgotten, that, if anything, further convince me this conversation is less debatable. To hear HOF'ers like Bird and Magic gush over this guy's dominance that they had never seen before and haven't seen since is significant.

 

[JungRebel]

Let's see what the next few years bring. I dont think MJ goes 6 for 6 in finals if he sees these Golden State teams. But, the game has changed a lot, hard to compare. I know Lebron is 3-6 in the finals but I dont hold two of those against him, especially 2015.

 

[Drebin]

Let's see what the next few years bring. I dont think MJ goes 6 for 6 in finals if he sees these Golden State teams. But, the game has changed a lot, hard to compare. I know Lebron is 3-6 in the finals but I dont hold two of those against him, especially 2015.

You've gotta be kidding me. Those Golden State teams wouldn't have gotten out of the first round of the playoffs in that era. They are way too soft and way too finesse. It was a different game and Curry/Klay wouldn't be as prolific having to play through contact.

 

[JungRebel]

I said it is hard to compare eras.
I said it is hard to compare eras.
I said it is hard to compare eras.

LeBron would've fit in better in the 90's. Instead he plays in an era that is officiated completely differently. If MJ played TODAY he would not have gone 6 for 6. I'm not doubting anything about MJ, he currently has the best resume of anyone who ever played, including Bill Russell.

BTW, at the height of the Golden State run they passed the ball about as well as any team that ever existed. That translates across all eras. "Not getting out of the first round" is laughable.

 

[T-TownDawgg]

Jordan put up slightly better numbers during this era of tougher defenses and wild west officiating you speak of, where MVP's weren't insulated from abuse like they are today. His scoring titles, MVP's, and lifetime ppg scoring average trump James. And when you throw in Michael's 9 All NBA defensive team honors, it's not close.

James is a generational talent, no question. But I've seen the best of both. This debate is entertaining, but when previous all time greats who played against him and also witness LeBron's career weigh in on Jordan's supremacy, we should take notice.

 

[TrueMaroonGrind]

You've gotta be kidding me. Those Golden State teams wouldn't have gotten out of the first round of the playoffs in that era. They are way too soft and way too finesse. It was a different game and Curry/Klay wouldn't be as prolific having to play through contact.

They would get killed in the paint. I don’t buy not getting out of the first round though. Those were some of the best shooting teams in NBA history.

 

[Rayburn8]

You've gotta be kidding me. Those Golden State teams wouldn't have gotten out of the first round of the playoffs in that era. They are way too soft and way too finesse. It was a different game and Curry/Klay wouldn't be as prolific having to play through contact.

This is the dumbest comment I’ve ever seen on this board, and that is saying something.

 

[DAWG61]

2015-2018 Warriors are probably the greatest NBA dynasty of all-time. Would a team from a certain year beat them? Sure but you probably aren't finding a better team over a 4 year stretch than them ever.

 

[Jeffreauxdawg]

2015-2018 Warriors are probably the greatest NBA dynasty of all-time. Would a team from a certain year beat them? Sure but you probably aren't finding a better team over a 4 year stretch than them ever.

85-88 Lakers. The depth of the NBA at that time was unreal. I hated the Lakers, but couldn't take my eyes off of them either. I cannot say that about the Warriors.

The 90s Bulls and 60's Celtics are probably better too.

 

[Msubulldogfan1]

These boomers and their teams from decades ago***

 

[Drebin]

These boomers and their teams from decades ago***

These snowflakes and their revisionist history***

 

[dog12]

This is the dumbest comment I’ve ever seen on this board, and that is saying something.

When compared to the NBA of the mid to late 80s, today's NBA is very soft. (my opinion)

If Golden State had to play the 1989 Detroit Pistons, then the Warriors would be in big trouble. They'd have to face Bill Laimbeer, Dennis Rodman, John Salley, James Edwards, Rick Mahorn, Joe Dumars, Mark Aguirre, Vinnie Johnson, John Long and Isaiah Thomas.

Joe Dumars and Dennis Rodman would shut down (or, significantly slow down) whomever they are guarding. Rodman was an absolute beast on the defensive end. And there would be no driving to the basket . . . not with Laimbeer, Salley, Edwards and/or Mahorn.

Some of those Pistons listed above would physically hurt people on the defensive end, and the Warriors would not be able to overcome that. The Warriors might win a game or two, but there's no way the Warriors would win a 7-game series. (my opinion)

Golden State would likely get by the first round . . . I'll agree to that . . . but the remainder of Drebin's comments are accurate.

 

[aTotal360]

I think the Jordan Bulls would win in any era. I'm not sure if the recent Warrior teams would. Hand checking and the added physicality of the days of yore would impact them greatly.

 

[Seinfeld]

If these GS teams had played in in the 80s-90s, they’d probably have never made it to the finals. Last night’s episodes detailed just how tough you had to be to win a championship in that era, and I give the warriors credit for a lot of things, but tough is definitely not a word I’d use to describe them. They’ve benefited as much if not more than anyone from today’s rules

 

[NWADawg]

I am a fan of the older, more physical style of basketball and think that most teams today would get destroyed if they jumped back to the 80's and 90's to play. But in all fairness, I also think that the 89 Pistons would finish the game with water boys, fan volunteers, and assistant coaches on the court because the rest of the team would be fouled out if they jumped into todays game. The older generation was raised up and coached to play contact basketball because that's the way the game was officiated. Modern players are raised up and coached to play the modern style. I think it would be hard to just turn a switch and change in either direction.

 

[My Bru]

I am a fan of the older, more physical style of basketball and think that most teams today would get destroyed if they jumped back to the 80's and 90's to play. But in all fairness, I also think that the 89 Pistons would finish the game with water boys, fan volunteers, and assistant coaches on the court because the rest of the team would be fouled out if they jumped into todays game. The older generation was raised up and coached to play contact basketball because that's the way the game was officiated. Modern players are raised up and coached to play the modern style. I think it would be hard to just turn a switch and change in either direction.

What does this even mean? I don't watch NBA basketball now and I really don't watch college. I see all this talk about officiating but is it really that different? Seems to me more teams just like to fly around and shoot 3's.

Was there some sort of specific movement to call more fouls or make the game a certain way? Or is it the same type of stuff people talk about in the NFL about how the game is "changing" when it's really just a few small things like targeting or what not.

 

[DAWG61]

Some of the Warriors players have definitely been tough. Matt Barnes, David West, Draymond Green, Igoudola, David Lee, Zaza Pachulia aren't exactly soft players. Actually now that I'm thinking of it who exactly would y'all not consider tough on the Warriors?

 

[Msubulldogfan1]

If these GS teams had played in in the 80s-90s, they’d probably have never made it to the finals. Last night’s episodes detailed just how tough you had to be to win a championship in that era, and I give the warriors credit for a lot of things, but tough is definitely not a word I’d use to describe them. They’ve benefited as much if not more than anyone from today’s rules

Another way to say that is if those lakers/bulls/celtics teams had played in the 2010s, they would have got donkey stomped by the warriors.

 

[Tin Cup Cowboy]

Yes, officiating is drastically different. The NBA wanted more scoring to make it more appealing. Nearing the end of Jordan's era it started becoming much more advantageous for the offensive player. Much like the NFL wants more scoring so you see passing penalties lean much more heavily in the offenses favor, not to mention the obvious rules around the safety concerns.

This is why it makes it so much harder to compare teams and players in my opinion.

 

[Msubulldogfan1]

These snowflakes and their revisionist history***

Senile old men and their delusions***

 

[DAWG61]

Some people are drunk with nostalgia. Jordan shot 8,115 free throws in 13 seasons. Steph Curry has shot 2,827 in 11 seasons. If you breathed on Jordan he went to the foul line.

 

[hatfieldms]

Some people are drunk with nostalgia. Jordan shot 8,115 free throws in 13 seasons. Steph Curry has shot 2,827 in 11 seasons. If you breathed on Jordan he went to the foul line.

Jordan drove to the basket constantly. How often is Curry driving to the basket?

 

[My Bru]

Some people are drunk with nostalgia. Jordan shot 8,115 free throws in 13 seasons. Steph Curry has shot 2,827 in 11 seasons. If you breathed on Jordan he went to the foul line.

Now THAT is a relevant stat (if true).

 

[T-TownDawgg]

Some people are drunk on their own agendas.
Jordan drove the lane. Steph shoots threes.
Next item, please

 

[PBRME]

Jordan drove to the basket constantly. How often is Curry driving to the basket?

This

 

[Seinfeld]

Curry, Klay, and KD. Their three best players from their title runs...

Also, while I’ll give you maybe West and Iggy, I will never agree that Green is tough. He’s just a *****, and there is a difference

 

[PBRME]

 

[Seinfeld]

They are one of the best shooting teams of all time, and they benefited from being born in the era of arcade pop a shot basketball. They’re phenomenal in this era, no question, but the best dynasty of all time? They may be #5, and it is unquestionable that they would not have survived in any other period of the NBA. This is exactly why we have literally never seen a team constructed like them until they came into existence

 

[DAWG61]

Why drive to the basket for 2 points or 2 free throws when Curry is a career 43.5% 3 point shooter? Jordan 32.7%.

 

[Msubulldogfan1]

They are one of the best shooting teams of all time, and they benefited from being born in the era of arcade pop a shot basketball. They’re phenomenal in this era, no question, but the best dynasty of all time? They may be #5, and it is unquestionable that they would not have survived in any other period of the NBA. This is exactly why we have literally never seen a team constructed like them until they came into existence

Yes, Steph Curry and the warriors actually changed how basketball is played. Nothing more needs to be said about that teams greatness.

 

[T-TownDawgg]

I don't take this debate that seriously, but it's telling how so many ignore facts because of their personal leanings. My background on this issue:

I was a huge Dr. J fan; then a Celtics fan throughout the 80s. Hated the Pistons. Hated the Lakers. Those 83-86 Boston teams passed the ball better than any group I've ever seen, even some recent Warriors teams.

Later, I became a Supersonics fan. Thought Pippen would be a huge addition. That positivity lasted all of 5 minutes.

Then Pippen, Jordan and the Bulls essentially torpedoed every team I loved for over a decade. I hated the Bulls and didn't exactly like MJ for that reason, but by the late 90's, I knew I was watching greatness that I'd never seen and haven't seen since.

This is coming from someone who was never a Bulls or MJ fan; all the while I was rooting for LeBron at Cleveland, and Steph at GS. Those guys are simply missing something. Those who objectively watched them all can see it.

 

[Drebin]

Yes, Steph Curry and the warriors actually changed how basketball is played. Nothing more needs to be said about that teams greatness.

No, the advent of the stretch-four, which really started coming into play with the influx of europeans into the league, changed how basketball is played.

 

[Drebin]

Why drive to the basket for 2 points or 2 free throws when Curry is a career 43.5% 3 point shooter? Jordan 32.7%.

Curry wouldn't be shooting at that clip in the 80s era. Curry's father Dell was a better shooter than he was, so there's a comp for you to look into if you're actually interested in educating yourself.

 

[Msubulldogfan1]

I don't take this debate that seriously, but it's telling how so many ignore facts because of their personal leanings. My background on this issue:

I was a huge Dr. J fan; then a Celtics fan throughout the 80s. Hated the Pistons. Hated the Lakers. Those 83-86 Boston teams passed the ball better than any group I've ever seen, even some recent Warriors teams.

Later, I became a Supersonics fan. Thought Pippen would be a huge addition. That positivity lasted all of 5 minutes.

Then Pippen, Jordan and the Bulls essentially torpedoed every team I loved for over a decade. I hated the Bulls and didn't exactly like MJ for that reason, but by the late 90's, I knew I was watching greatness that I'd never seen and haven't seen since.

This is coming from someone who was never a Bulls or MJ fan; all the while I was rooting for LeBron at Cleveland, and Steph at GS. Those guys are simply missing something. Those who objectively watched them all can see it.

I’ve objectively watched them all, and my opinion is Lebron is the best basketball player ever.

And that’s coming from a Kobe fan who hated Lebron.

 

[Msubulldogfan1]

No, the advent of the stretch-four, which really started coming into play with the influx of europeans into the league, changed how basketball is played.

Lmao, wut? Geez bro, do you watch basketball? Green really isn’t even a stretch 4. The main catalyst are Stephen and Klay.

I really don’t know what a stretch 4 has to do with golden state at all, unless you’re referring to Greens ball handling skills.

 

[DAWG61]

Your logic is flawed. The Warriors are a prolific 3 point shooting dynasty. Why would tougher basketball in the paint affect that? Who gives a **** if the Bulls have Will Perdue, Dennis Rodman, Horace Grant and Bill Cartwright beating everyone up in the paint. Sounds like more room for 3 point shooters on the perimeter to me.

 

[Drebin]

Lmao, wut? Geez bro, do you watch basketball? Green really isn’t even a stretch 4. The main catalyst are Stephen and Klay.

We are discussing style of play. You're moving the goalposts. Try to keep up.

When you had stretch fours like Dirk, and later guys like Durant come into the league, it changed how the game was played fundamentally. More teams went small and spaced the perimeter. It was so stark that a team like the Grizzlies, which was very much an old-school, traditional double post offense, played what was viewed as an extreme version of the game at that point.

That innovation of the game: go small, spread the floor, reverse the ball, and shoot high-volume threes, is exactly the offense that GS runs.

And just so you know, yes, Green is a stretch four. His focus is not scoring but being able to defend other teams' stretch fours on the perimeter. Draymond Green probably wouldn't make a roster in the 80s because he doesn't have the game to thrive in the lane against bigger players. He can get away with it now because the game is soft. Charles Barkley, he is not.

 

[mstateglfr]

You've gotta be kidding me. Those Golden State teams wouldn't have gotten out of the first round of the playoffs in that era. They are way too soft and way too finesse. It was a different game and Curry/Klay wouldn't be as prolific having to play through contact.

So if the 'soft' team had to play in that era, they wouldnt have even gotten out of the 1st round? Thats a tough one to accept, but sure.
If you use those parameters though, then the 'hard' teams from that era would suck hard playing in the current style of basketball. Players move quicker, the ball moves faster, and Detroit(or others) would either foul our or be ejected. Seriously- there would be 1 or more ejections each game due to how they played defense. Every 17ing posession would result in free throws for the Warriors if they didnt already launch and probably make a 3.
Benches would be sparse due to the numbers fouling out each game.


I have no idea why contact, which is a foul, was so ignored back then.

 

[Msubulldogfan1]

We are discussing style of play. You're moving the goalposts. Try to keep up.

When you had stretch fours like Dirk, and later guys like Durant come into the league, it changed how the game was played fundamentally. More teams went small and spaced the perimeter. It was so stark that a team like the Grizzlies, which was very much an old-school, traditional double post offense, played what was viewed as an extreme version of the game at that point.

That innovation of the game: go small, spread the floor, reverse the ball, and shoot high-volume threes, is exactly the offense that GS runs.

And just so you know, yes, Green is a stretch four. His focus is not scoring but being able to defend other teams' stretch fours on the perimeter. Draymond Green probably wouldn't make a roster in the 80s because he doesn't have the game to thrive in the lane against bigger players. He can get away with it now because the game is soft. Charles Barkley, he is not.

Green is a do-it-all type of player, that isn’t a great 3 point shooter. If your definition of a stretch 4 means the player doesn’t have to be 3 good point shooter, then that can be your definition buddy.

And look at the NBA champions before the warriors...Cektics, Lakers, Spurs, Heat. They played the game nothing like the warriors.

So please, educate yourself a little bit. You listed Dirk and KD as your main argument lmao. The warriors started the “3 or dunk” type offense. That’s inarguable. It’s fact. Take the L and move on.

 

[Seinfeld]

I actually don’t disagree there. The problem is that while the 2010s is the only era in which those teams wouldn’t have thrived, it is also the only one in which GS would have. That is the divide that pushes GS down the pecking order on the all time list