To help sort through the hydroxychloroquine narratives

[rebsgoingdown]

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/debunking-hydroxychloroquine-controversy

Be careful of what you read and hear in every case. Media is intentionally misleading . Chloroquine is not exactly the same as hydroxychloroquine....
In the VA study, they admit to giving hydroQ to sicker patients close to death. Zinc wasn't given which is one of the key ingredients. The hydroQ opens the virus allowing zinc into the cell which inhibits its replication. Nor was azithromycin given in many cases.

I'm not saying that hydroxychloroquine is a cure. I am a pharmacist though and have been reading these studies since all this began. Many doctors have had good results with it when used with zinc and azithromycin. ..and if it is given early...It pains me that the media is trying to shutdown any positive narrative seemingly only because trump mentioned it.
The intention for all should be to find a cure and help people survive.

 

[L4Dawg]

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/debunking-hydroxychloroquine-controversy

Be careful of what you read and hear in every case. Media is intentionally misleading . Chloroquine is not exactly the same as hydroxychloroquine....
In the VA study, they admit to giving hydroQ to sicker patients close to death. Zinc wasn't given which is one of the key ingredients. The hydroQ opens the virus allowing zinc into the cell which inhibits its replication. Nor was azithromycin given in many cases.

I'm not saying that hydroxychloroquine is a cure. I am a pharmacist though and have been reading these studies since all this began. Many doctors have had good results with it when used with zinc and azithromycin. ..and if it is given early...It pains me that the media is trying to shutdown any positive narrative seemingly only because trump mentioned it.
The intention for all should be to find a cure and help people survive.

It doesn't seem to do much in any of the studies that at least attempted to do a real scientific look at it. When the politics took over any chance of actually getting people to really impartially evaluate it went out the window. The zealots on both sides won't listen to anything that contradicts the narrative. That's why Trump just needs to shut up and let the scientists do their job. Whatever he says on anything automatically enters the political realm and that is BAD for science.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

Zero Hedge

 

[codeDawg]

There is zero reason to be promoting this treatment. The media isn't trying to kill this. The data doesn't support its use yet and has found early negative effects. There are a ton of trials running currently with reasonable sample sizes and control groups. I would expect that there is some modest benefit under certain conditions, but we don't know. The truth is 99%+ of infected people will recover with or without this medicine. We'll know where it is and is not safe and effective relatively soon.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/resu...=Hydroxychloroquine&cntry=&state=&city=&dist=

 

[Bucky Dog]

There is zero reason to be promoting this treatment. The media isn't trying to kill this. The data doesn't support its use yet and has found early negative effects. There are a ton of trials running currently with reasonable sample sizes and control groups. I would expect that there is some modest benefit under certain conditions, but we don't know. The truth is 99%+ of infected people will recover with or without this medicine. We'll know where it is and is not safe and effective relatively soon.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/resu...=Hydroxychloroquine&cntry=&state=&city=&dist=

To the rescue!!!!!!!

 

[Ddawg69]

Sorry to be a downer, but historically we have no solid treatments for viral respiratory illnesses including coronavirus strains and its not for lack of trying. Its not going to change all the sudden now.

 

[TheStateUofMS]

From I know:

Hdyroxy and the Z pack must be taken EARLY before you're severely sick and it needs to be a 10 day regime.

There's a French study with real time data showing using this regime: treat early, 10 days, z pack over 3,000 recovered and as of this morning it was 12 deaths.

The FDA is doing these studies on shorter regimes and folks who are already really sick.

Let me also be clear, I think taking any drugs should be between the patient and doctor, so I'm not for stocking up on these drugs and taking them without consulting a doctor, but there's too many doctors in the Northeast who have treated hundreds of patients early and have had zero side effects and very few hospitalizations or deaths after treating with this drug combo early.

ETA: Link to ongoing French study with real time results. It's all in French so you may need google translate: http://www.mediterranee-infection.com/covid-19/

 

[DAWG61]

Ok but that was before we tried tanning beds and drinking disinfectants

 

[MrKotter]

There is zero reason to be promoting this treatment. The media isn't trying to kill this. The data doesn't support its use yet and has found early negative effects. There are a ton of trials running currently with reasonable sample sizes and control groups. I would expect that there is some modest benefit under certain conditions, but we don't know. The truth is 99%+ of infected people will recover with or without this medicine. We'll know where it is and is not safe and effective relatively soon.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/resu...=Hydroxychloroquine&cntry=&state=&city=&dist=

After seeing people I personally know vastly improve, literally, overnight after taking HCL, zinc and Z-pack there is no way you can say it doesn't help. Might not help all but it does help many. It's past 17ing time to stop trumpeting the "vaccine is our only hope" BS and put just as much effort into a treatment.

 

[johnson86-1]

From I know:

Hdyroxy and the Z pack must be taken EARLY before you're severely sick and it needs to be a 10 day regime.

There's a French study with real time data showing using this regime: treat early, 10 days, z pack over 3,000 recovered and as of this morning it was 12 deaths.

The FDA is doing these studies on shorter regimes and folks who are already really sick.

Let me also be clear, I think taking any drugs should be between the patient and doctor, so I'm not for stocking up on these drugs and taking them without consulting a doctor, but there's too many doctors in the Northeast who have treated hundreds of patients early and have had zero side effects and very few hospitalizations or deaths after treating with this drug combo early.

ETA: Link to ongoing French study with real time results. It's all in French so you may need google translate: http://www.mediterranee-infection.com/covid-19/

Well, that 12 out of 3000 dying is .4% mortality rate, which is roughly what I think is the best guess of the mortality rate, so you need to know something about the patients being treated to get any info from that. If it's a representative sample of people showing symptoms, that would I guess imply it cuts the death rate roughly in half, which would make it about double the flu? If they are giving it to sicker patients, then maybe it brings it all the way down to the flu?

Of course, if we get its mortalitiy rate to match the flu, we're going to still have a lot of deaths because a lot more than the 5-7% of people that get the flu each year will get COVID19 in the next year.

 

[Drebin]

Since you are a pharmacist, can you also address the narrative that there is a shortage of plaquenil (hydroxychloroquine) for lupus patients?

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Sorry to be a downer, but historically we have no solid treatments for viral respiratory illnesses including coronavirus strains and its not for lack of trying. Its not going to change all the sudden now.

^^^^^This^^^^ Viruses run their course, curve has been flattened, some people will react different than others primarily because of their health prior to being exposed to the virus as well as their age.

 

[Drebin]

It doesn't seem to do much in any of the studies that at least attempted to do a real scientific look at it. When the politics took over any chance of actually getting people to really impartially evaluate it went out the window. The zealots on both sides won't listen to anything that contradicts the narrative. That's why Trump just needs to shut up and let the scientists do their job. Whatever he says on anything automatically enters the political realm and that is BAD for science.

You're trying to sound like you're down the middle on this, but your political bias is showing. The only reason Trump ever talked about it was because scientists were doing their job and he was relaying what they were telling him. He's never once pushed it beyond saying it looked promising, or hopefully it will work, etc. This narrative that he was pushing it as a successful therapy for covid over the advice of scientists on his task force is a dishonest media narrative.

 

[WilCoDawg]

I hope for the sake of the world that you’re not as 17ing stupid in real life as you portray yourself here. But I guess only those who don’t parrot what the media tells us to aren’t as dense as you.

 

[The Peeper]

Going to be fun to watch the liberal narrative change as soon as the election is over from "we can't use that because its not tested for nor labeled for the Wuhan China Virus" to "we need to move fast to get this tested and approved asap". None of the whining propaganda that I see refutes its results, they just all say the test group size was too small, that drug is not labeled for that sickness, there's not enough evidence, if its not administered correctly there's side effects, etc then start bashing the administration for not moving fast enough on a cure and vaccination. Hell if baby aspirins not administered correctly it can be fatal. You ever listened to the list of side effects on every tv commercial played? I'm just really getting sick of politics..............

 

[dawgoneyall]

It doesn't seem to do much in any of the studies that at least attempted to do a real scientific look at it. When the politics took over any chance of actually getting people to really impartially evaluate it went out the window. The zealots on both sides won't listen to anything that contradicts the narrative. That's why Trump just needs to shut up and let the scientists do their job. Whatever he says on anything automatically enters the political realm and that is BAD for science.

So its Trump'S fault by simply mentioning plaquenil that caused the brouhaha..would not be the people with TDS be the cause of the reckus?

And TDS is only the fault/defect of the people with that syndrome. No one else.

Hope he doesn't mention how good water is for one. (I can see it now.....people drown due to water...Trump has killed thousands....)

 

[Misfit]

I don't see the media trying to mislead or shut down anything. What I see is them reporting the results from different hospitals that have administered the drugs. If you are reading that as trying to shut it down, I think the bias is yours, not the medias. We all want the silver bullet to be found, but it is pretty clear that this drug combo is not it. The most you can say is it may be working some of the time. What we are getting is a lot of post hoc ergo propter hoc reporting from folks who want Trump to be proven right. That is a classic logical fallacy and is not remotely related to scientific analysis. They took this med combo and several days later they were better proves nothing. A very large percentage of people who get sick from this virus recover regardless of what meds they are given, so just because they took this med combo and got better proves nothing. If they had been given a shot of tequila and a blow job they might have gotten better just as quickly.

 

[BoDawg.sixpack]

Hot off the presses: smoking provides protective effect from contracting Covid

I think I've had enough of the coronavirus news cycle to last me the rest of the year.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

This. The only people with an agenda are the Trump fans desperate to have Trump turn out to be "right" about the drug.

Democrats, especially Cuomo and Whitmer, have been pretty vocal about how they're doing trials of this drug and hoping hard that it turns out to be the magic cure we all want it to be. It doesn't look like that's going to be the case, but I for one am hoping that they can demonstrate that it's helpful in at least some specific situations.

 

[Misfit]

You need to expand your sources. There is a lot more than that being reported. It has been administered for covid at many hospitals across the country. If it were the miracle Trump supporters want it to be don't you think Fox News would have had docs from every one of those hospitals on every day? Hell, Trump would have flown them to DC to be on his daily reality tv show. And the side effects of that drug are not just if it is not administered properly. Do a google search for its side effects. It is not a safe drug for people with heart or liver problems regardless of how it is administered. Do ya'll make this **** up yourselves or is there some news outfit feeding you these lies?

 

[Drebin]

You need to expand your sources. There is a lot more than that being reported. It has been administered for covid at many hospitals across the country. If it were the miracle Trump supporters want it to be don't you think Fox News would have had docs from every one of those hospitals on every day? Hell, Trump would have flown them to DC to be on his daily reality tv show. And the side effects of that drug are not just if it is not administered properly. Do a google search for its side effects. It is not a safe drug for people with heart or liver problems regardless of how it is administered. Do ya'll make this **** up yourselves or is there some news outfit feeding you these lies?

There have literally been dozens of doctors interviewed on Fox News talking about the effectiveness of the drug. NO other networks will do that because it goes against the narrative. Almost every medical worker in NY has been taking this as a preventative for the past month.

Governor Cuomo was just at the White House Wednesday asking Trump to send more of this drug to NY.

But hey, I don't want to let facts get in the way of your little dissertation.

 

[BiscuitEater]

There is zero reason to be promoting this treatment. The media isn't trying to kill this.

Roughly speaking .. go on a ventilator with one or more of the comorbidity factors and you got a 12% chance of living. So, yes I would try one of the 'trial' treatments. And, most of the treated in the VA study the media is pushing were 'near death' and I do fault them for NOT stating that upfront.

 

[TheStateUofMS]

That's a good point. It may help it may not, it may be the people are recovering on their own regardless of the drugs.

Like I said, I would trust a personal Dr. If my personal Dr was against it, I'd ask what the next available option is. I never go to a Dr and tell him what to give me.

 

[dawgoneyall]

This. The only people with an agenda are the Trump fans desperate to have Trump turn out to be "right" about the drug.

Democrats, especially Cuomo and Whitmer, have been pretty vocal about how they're doing trials of this drug and hoping hard that it turns out to be the magic cure we all want it to be. It doesn't look like that's going to be the case, but I for one am hoping that they can demonstrate that it's helpful in at least some specific situations.

People pulling for the drug to work are hoping it saves lives....people pulling for the drug to not work are.....well you describe that dark place.....

 

[Acid mouth]

Since you are a pharmacist, can you also address the narrative that there is a shortage of plaquenil (hydroxychloroquine) for lupus patients?

Another pharmacist here. I was unable to get Hydroxychloroquine for about a month. I'm able to get it now.

 

[MrKotter]

You need to expand your sources. There is a lot more than that being reported. It has been administered for covid at many hospitals across the country. If it were the miracle Trump supporters want it to be don't you think Fox News would have had docs from every one of those hospitals on every day? Hell, Trump would have flown them to DC to be on his daily reality tv show. And the side effects of that drug are not just if it is not administered properly. Do a google search for its side effects. It is not a safe drug for people with heart or liver problems regardless of how it is administered. Do ya'll make this **** up yourselves or is there some news outfit feeding you these lies?

^^^this ^^is the BS that needs to stop. The "only Trump supporters " are in favor of it or are too blind to see it has side effects needs to be laid to rest. . Well, no **** it can have side effects. Hell, many OTC meds are not safe for people with liver and heart problems. Not every medication out is safe for every single person so you guys need to figure out a new talking point. This isn't a stand behind Trump regardless thing. It's a do what is right for people thing. HCL, Z and zinc have been effective so roll with it for those that can take it. Keep searching for a more effective and more widely usable treatment and quit selling the falsehood of a vaccine to people especially with an incompetent fool like Fauci behind the wheel.

 

[Hump4Hoops]

Uh oh

^^^this ^^is the BS that needs to stop. The "only Trump supporters " are in favor of it or are too blind to see it has side effects needs to be laid to rest. . Well, no **** it can have side effects. Hell, many OTC meds are not safe for people with liver and heart problems. Not every medication out is safe for every single person so you guys need to figure out a new talking point. This isn't a stand behind Trump regardless thing. It's a do what is right for people thing. HCL, Z and zinc have been effective so roll with it for those that can take it. Keep searching for a more effective and more widely usable treatment and quit selling the falsehood of a vaccine to people especially with an incompetent fool like Fauci behind the wheel.

You've gone and outed yourself.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

^^^this ^^is the BS that needs to stop. The "only Trump supporters " are in favor of it or are too blind to see it has side effects needs to be laid to rest. . Well, no **** it can have side effects. Hell, many OTC meds are not safe for people with liver and heart problems. Not every medication out is safe for every single person so you guys need to figure out a new talking point. This isn't a stand behind Trump regardless thing. It's a do what is right for people thing. HCL, Z and zinc have been effective so roll with it for those that can take it. Keep searching for a more effective and more widely usable treatment and quit selling the falsehood of a vaccine to people especially with an incompetent fool like Fauci behind the wheel.

Everyone, regardless of how they feel about Trump, wants this to be a miracle cure. But only Trump supporters are willfully ignoring rigorous studies to listen to cherry-picked anecdotes in order to make Trump "right" about it.

We (liberals) don't even care about proving anyone right or wrong - we just want to study all possible treatments. That's why Cuomo, Whitmer, and the rest are publically supporting research into this. Only one side is treating this like a game for bragging rights.

 

[L4Dawg]

You're trying to sound like you're down the middle on this, but your political bias is showing. The only reason Trump ever talked about it was because scientists were doing their job and he was relaying what they were telling him. He's never once pushed it beyond saying it looked promising, or hopefully it will work, etc. This narrative that he was pushing it as a successful therapy for covid over the advice of scientists on his task force is a dishonest media narrative.

The last Democrat I voted for in a national type election was John Stennis. I didn't comment one way or the other on what he actually said. Read it again. When he speaks, even if he is right it becomes a political football. THAT is harming the actual science. It's not his fault, but there is no denying that it happens. He just needs to be quiet for that reason and that reason alone.

 

[memphisbulldog]

After seeing people I personally know vastly improve, literally, overnight after taking HCL, zinc and Z-pack there is no way you can say it doesn't help. Might not help all but it does help many. It's past 17ing time to stop trumpeting the "vaccine is our only hope" BS and put just as much effort into a treatment.

I agree. My next door neighbor was in hospital with Covid-19. Could not breathe. He took Hydrochloroxine at night and the next morning he was in good shape. I asked him how confident he was that it worked vs he would have gotten better anyway (like the VA study implied). He said it 100.00% worked. Just sayin'.

 

[MrKotter]

Everyone, regardless of how they feel about Trump, wants this to be a miracle cure. But only Trump supporters are willfully ignoring rigorous studies to listen to cherry-picked anecdotes in order to make Trump "right" about it.

We (liberals) don't even care about proving anyone right or wrong - we just want to study all possible treatments. That's why Cuomo, Whitmer, and the rest are publically supporting research into this. Only one side is treating this like a game for bragging rights.

And the other is refusing to see it has benefits. Not one person is claiming it's a miracle cure. As for your "cherry-picked anecdotes " your side is equally if not more guilty in that regard. The HCL combo is not the best answer but it's the only thing currently. To completely ignore its success is irresponsible at best. If you are seriously holding out hope on a vaccine that actually works, good luck.

 

[MrKotter]

You've gone and outed yourself.

Outed myself about what? Knowing Fauci should have zero to do with what is going on? Then oh, you got me.

 

[Dawgg]

You're trying to sound like you're down the middle on this, but your political bias is showing. The only reason Trump ever talked about it was because scientists were doing their job and he was relaying what they were telling him. He's never once pushed it beyond saying it looked promising, or hopefully it will work, etc. This narrative that he was pushing it as a successful therapy for covid over the advice of scientists on his task force is a dishonest media narrative.

"What do you have to lose? Take it. I really think they should take it."

"It can help them, but it's not going to hurt them."

 

[40 acres and a mule]

There is zero reason to be promoting this treatment. The media isn't trying to kill this.

Here is a reason. It was being touted as a possible treatment for the the SARS virus in the early 2000's. That virus was also a corona virus. Here is a link to the Virology Journal from 2005. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/. This was an in vitro study. And this is chloroquine rather than hydroxy chloroquine, but I doubt if a side chain will make much difference.

I the agree the jury is still out on whether it works with Covid 19 in vivo, but the is reason for hope.

Also, I think you underestimate the medias unhinged hatred of Trump.

 

[jdbulldog]

I know 2 people who took hydroxy+zpack. One was dying and three days after taking it was doing much better. The other was running a 104 temp with low oxygen levels for three straight days. Upon entering the hospital she was treated with same meds and her fever broke within 24 hours or less. And that is all I know bout that.

 

[dawgoneyall]

Everyone, regardless of how they feel about Trump, wants this to be a miracle cure. But only Trump supporters are willfully ignoring rigorous studies to listen to cherry-picked anecdotes in order to make Trump "right" about it.

We (liberals) don't even care about proving anyone right or wrong - we just want to study all possible treatments. That's why Cuomo, Whitmer, and the rest are publically supporting research into this. Only one side is treating this like a game for bragging rights.

I don't believe you.

One would have to been living under a rock top believe that the left was pulling for this drug to work/help.

And that is dark.....

 

[fang]

I know one Dr office in NE MS that prescribed Z-Pac and HCQ as the standard protocol with good results. Think he's a democrat too...........just sayin......

 

[QuaoarsKing]

I don't believe you.

One would have to been living under a rock top believe that the left was pulling for this drug to work/help.

And that is dark.....

Sorry you feel that way, but you are sorely mistaken if you think that I or anyone else on the Left is hoping hydroxychloroquine or any of the other potential treatments doesn't work. You should probably stop believing whatever sources are telling you that nonsense.

I mean, even Drebin acknowledged just a few posts up that Cuomo is pulling for it.

 

[paindonthurt_]

Are either of those statements wrong for you personally?

For me? No they aren’t wrong. If I’m in serious condition with covid 19, I’m asking my doctor to give me every single reason not to take it Bc I can’t think of any good reasons not to.

 

[paindonthurt_]

You people are unhinged morons Bc you hate trump so much.

The right wants it to work. Do you think that’s more abt Trump or you know HOPE?

The left wants it not to work. Do you think that’s more abt trump or you know ANYTHING ELSE?