Robert Woodard and Reggie Perry

[dawgstudent]

#44 and #64 respectively on The Athletic's NBA Draft Board. Next year could be special for MSU basketball if they both stay.

https://theathletic.com/1635879/202...board-3-0-the-internationals-make-their-move/

 

[My Bru]

Next year could be special for MSU basketball if they both stay.

Lemme get some of dat crystal

 

[mstateglfr]

Yup. Perry is basically not projected in the 1st round, if you compile all the various mock drafts. That doesnt keep players from leaving early, but when you arent even in the 2nd round for many drafts, it may give you pause.

 

[NWADog]

They both have the talent to go now. I hope (selfishly) that Perry gets feedback saying he needs another year for maturity. Maybe Woodard can really breakout his junior season.

The lineup could be nasty

If we went small ball similar to Arkansas with Perry gone:

PG: Molinar
SG: Weatherspoon
SF: DJ Stewart
PF/SF: Woodard
C: Ado

With both returning:

PG: Weatherspoon
SG: DJ
SF: Woodard
PF: Perry
C: Ado

 

[57stratdawg]

I'm surprised to see Woodard being projected ahead of Perry. Maybe his advance numbers are better than I realize and there is a little bit of Draymond-ing going on. But, I don't see how people can watch him this year and think he's going to consistently create looks at the next level.

 

[Seinfeld]

In all honesty, if Perry has a legit 15-ft jumper, I think he’d be close to a lottery pick. The problem for him this year has been that simply shooting them isn’t impressing anyone. They’ve got to go in, and it just seems like 2 out of every 3 are badly forced shots

Kid’s got a world of talent, but it obviously would be great to have both him and Woodard back next year so that they can continue to work on their game

 

[hullabaloodog]

Yes, we would be special if they both stay. But they aren't staying. We're already over the scholarship limit (only 12 next year due to Tutorgate) and according to Paul Jones we're still actively looking to add another player to this year's class. That tells me the staff expects to lose at least three guys-- Some combination of Carter (grad), Reggie (NBA), Woodard (NBA), or bench player (transfer).

 

[Shmuley]

Could be a deep NIT run.

 

[Shamoan]

if im advising perry, he needs to come back and play more consistently. he needs a lot of work, but the potential is there.

 

[mstateglfr]

Yes, we would be special if they both stay. But they aren't staying. We're already over the scholarship limit (only 12 next year due to Tutorgate) and according to Paul Jones we're still actively looking to add another player to this year's class. That tells me the staff expects to lose at least three guys-- Some combination of Carter (grad), Reggie (NBA), Woodard (NBA), or bench player (transfer).

Perhaps EJ Datcher will also be gone since he is a SR...

 

[Seinfeld]

Yeah, this is gonna sound like I’m knocking the guy, and that’s not at all my intent, but his stats tell the story. His minutes are up about 30% since last year, and lo and behold... most of his stats are up around 25-40% as well. Assists are a positive area, but then turnovers are definitely not.

In other words, it’s hard to pinpoint an area that has truly improved by leaps and bounds since last year that can’t be attributed to more minutes.

 

[dawgstudent]

His jumper just isn't consistent enough and he struggles if someone is more physical than him - which is rare. He's a pretty damn good player if he stays on the low block and he can't be pushed around. But in the NBA - it's all a perimeter game.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

the a true assessment. we really don't want him to work on his perimeter game for us to be successful though. we need our guards to be better in perimeter shooter. last thing we need is one of our big men in Perry hanging outside of the low block all of the time like Holman did all of the time.

 

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

In all honesty, if Perry has a legit 15-ft jumper, I think he’d be close to a lottery pick. The problem for him this year has been that simply shooting them isn’t impressing anyone. They’ve got to go in, and it just seems like 2 out of every 3 are badly forced shots

Kid’s got a world of talent, but it obviously would be great to have both him and Woodard back next year so that they can continue to work on their game

I agree. His release is low, which makes it difficult for him to get off a quick jumper. If he could reform his shot to a place where he could release the ball at a higher position , he would be a more appealing draft pick.

 

[mstateglfr]

the a true assessment. we really don't want him to work on his perimeter game for us to be successful though. we need our guards to be better in perimeter shooter. last thing we need is one of our big men in Perry hanging outside of the low block all of the time like Holman did all of the time.

I know, right? It was awful having a big man who could draw the defense out from the lane to open things up for others and also make 43% of his shots from behind the arc.***

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

haha, nice. holman was a wasted space on the floor most of the time. the last thing we need is our bigs roaming out by the three line. especially the way we play. we don't shoot that well from behind the arc and when they do roam outside we don't drive the lane. even the announcers points that out when Perry starts going outside too much.

 

[mstateglfr]

haha, nice. holman was a wasted space on the floor most of the time. the last thing we need is our bigs roaming out by the three line. especially the way we play. we don't shoot that well from behind the arc and when they do roam outside we don't drive the lane. even the announcers points that out when Perry starts going outside too much.

Perry gets work done down low- he has the size to bang and build to stay on balance thru contact. Holman was more finesse and ethereal. They were different types of bigs and should be played differently as a result.

 

[mstateglfr]

if im advising perry, he needs to come back and play more consistently. he needs a lot of work, but the potential is there.

He can always stay in the draft and come back to school if he goes undrafted. Its a rule change starting 2 drafts ago, I think.

 

[hullabaloodog]

Perhaps EJ Datcher will also be gone since he is a SR...

I heard recently that he is not using one of our 13 scholarships this season. Tolu Smith is using one.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

the problem with your tall big men being out near the arc is post prescense and rebounding. that's why he was a wasted space. he was useless under the rim. Perry big out on the arc is bad for rebounding. We got crushed in rebounding in games when Holman played a lot last year because we rarely had a post presence.

 

[Nunya.sixpack]

No one puts ado last. This is his team.

 

[mstateglfr]

the problem with your tall big men being out near the arc is post prescense and rebounding. that's why he was a wasted space. he was useless under the rim. Perry big out on the arc is bad for rebounding. We got crushed in rebounding in games when Holman played a lot last year because we rarely had a post presence.

Stats time.

Holman pulled down 2.1 offensive rebounds per game last season in 24.4mpg.
Perry pulled down 2.6 offensive rebounds per game last season in 23.9mpg.
Ado pulled down 1.7 offensive rebounds per game last season in 24.1mpg.

Your claim that a big man outside on offense is bad for rebounding just doesnt make sense here. All 3 played the same minutes per game, and Holman was hardly wasted space. Holman averaged half an offensive rebound less per game than Perry and about half an offensive rebound per game more than Ado.

Compare Holman's offensive rebounds per 40minutes to Perry this season- Holman was 3.44/game and Perry is 3.87/game this season. Again- how is that 'getting crushed' in rebounding?
Remember- this is offensive rebounding since we are talking about Holman stretching the floor on offense due to being effective from deep.

Now on defense, Holman averaged 4 rebounds per game last season. Ado averaged 2.8! And this season Ado is averaging 3.3! So Holman averaged more defensive rebounds than Ado averaged or averages this season, and Holman had the highest 3pg% for impact players.

Again- hardly wasted space.



I get that numbers can be interpreted to support all sorts of wacky stuff, but come on now- this is actual data that directly refutes what you are claiming. Holman was never a rebounding stud, but he was hardly wasted space. He grabbed offensive rebounds at a solid rate and grabbed more rebounds on both offense and defense than Ado while playing the same amount per game.

 

[Shamoan]

a team may take a flyer in the second round. im guessing that commits him at that point?

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

But he declared for the draft last year and pulled out at the last minute. I think you can only do that twice. If he declares this time, he has to stay in.

 

[VegasDawg13]

if im advising perry, he needs to come back and play more consistently. he needs a lot of work, but the potential is there.

This common opinion implies that he would get more "NBA prep" as a college junior than he would if he were already in the NBA or G-League, which doesn't seem realistic to me at all. Why do we assume Ben Howland & Co. can help him improve his NBA skills more than an NBA coaching staff would?

 

[Drebin]

I'm surprised to see Woodard being projected ahead of Perry. Maybe his advance numbers are better than I realize and there is a little bit of Draymond-ing going on. But, I don't see how people can watch him this year and think he's going to consistently create looks at the next level.

Woodard is a freak with off the charts measurables. Someone would love to get ahold of him and stuff him away on their G League roster and in their development programs. If he allows himself to be coached constructively, he could have big upside to an organization.

 

[Drebin]

His jumper just isn't consistent enough and he struggles if someone is more physical than him - which is rare. He's a pretty damn good player if he stays on the low block and he can't be pushed around. But in the NBA - it's all a perimeter game.

I'd love him to come back, but with the G-league so widely used now, there's really no incentive for him to stay here when he can go up there and develop his game with NBA coaches and draw a paycheck. It sucks but it is what it is.

 

[RightOfCenter]

What rounds provide “real” money in the NBA? First?

I think both should return because the stupid mistakes both make and they have both have two years, if needed to make themselves ultra valuable.

I understand the desire to want to get paid but I think more refinement could add some zeros to the pmt for these guys.

 

[oxfordrebel22]

I'm surprised to see Woodard being projected ahead of Perry. Maybe his advance numbers are better than I realize and there is a little bit of Draymond-ing going on. But, I don't see how people can watch him this year and think he's going to consistently create looks at the next level.

Woodard profiles as a 3 and D wing in the NBA. Teams will be super excited if they can nab him in the 2nd round, I think. If you can switch screens on the wing, defensively, and knock down a catch and shoot NBA 3 at 30% or better, you can play in the NBA with the way the floor is spread. Look at how Terrence Davis’s game has transitioned to the NBA. It’s crazy.

One thing that’s interesting as far as Perry and Woodard go, is this year’s draft is considered to be one of the worst in a long time. And they are projecting the 2021 draft to be an all-timer. So, you wonder if that will factor in to the advice they receive.

I love a draft, in any sport, and outside of Ole Miss I watch State players more than any other team, so this is interesting to me.

 

[mstateglfr]

But he declared for the draft last year and pulled out at the last minute. I think you can only do that twice. If he declares this time, he has to stay in.

Yeah, I thought that it changed where an undrafted player could come back. It was a couple years ago.
A rule about getting to withdraw once was also made...maybe that was earlier?

I cant keep up.