Dave Bartoo says

[RPOdawg]

On Bo Bounds this morning that Lane Kiffin is basically Chad Morris. Said he has a career -2 coach effect. He went on to say everyone thought Chad Morris was a great recruiter. False. Everyone thinks lane Kiffin is a great recruiter. False. Everyone thought Chad Morris was a great coach. False. Everyone thinks Lane Kiffin is a great coach. False. Career -2 coach effect. He said he thinks Lane goes to Arkansas FWIW.

 

[msstate7]

Isn't bartoo the one that says Moorhead is a stud?

 

[The Situation]

Bartoo is usually right when it comes to X/O coaching. But his system also says Orgeron sucks, but there again, would anyone really argue? It takes quite a situation to make those CEO type hires actually work. They are rare.

I'll say this about Bartoo, he nailed Chad Morris. He also said Mullen was a good playcaller, which is not true. I'm not real sure what type of coach Kiffin is, if I had to guess, I'd call him a system coach. I think he's probably better than Morris, though. Either way, it takes time to install those types of deals.

But again, that's Bartoo's problem, he just lumps all coaches into either an offensive or defensive schemer, and rates them based on that. It's incomplete, although I do like his work overall.

 

[bulldoghair]

I'll say this about Bartoo, he nailed Chad Morris. He also said Mullen was a good playcaller, which is not true.

Mullen is absolutely a good play caller. There is rhyme and reason to it. You can see him setting things up. You can see him hiding weaknesses and maximizing strengths by his play calling- and you can see this change game to game and year to year depending on personnel. He’s very good at identifying what he has and play calling to it.

 

[RPOdawg]

Isn't bartoo the one that says Moorhead is a stud?

Not sure tbh

 

[8dog]

+1 coach effect!

 

[BlueRidgeMtns]

no, he rode a stud... on that recruiting trip.**

 

[BlueRidgeMtns]

with the exception of the QB draw on 3rd and long .... and the 150lb RB up the gut 3 times then punt.

 

[Maroonthirteen]

Bartoo also said, State played the 3rd toughest schedule in college football this year. Also we played the most talented AND best coached defenses in the country this year.

 

[oxfordrebel22]

This is really about the only thing that I've seen or heard that has given me pause on Kiffin. Bartoo's system is not perfect, but it is one of the only ways we have of looking at a coach's record/resume without bias. Ole Miss fan's will freak out if they don't get Norvell or Kiffin, but Napier could very easily become the best of the 3. These thing's are total crapshoots.

 

[The Situation]

Isn't bartoo the one that says Moorhead is a stud?

According to most advanced stats, Moorhead has been very close to expectations. Whether we all like it or not.

 

[msstate7]

Bartoo also said, State played the 3rd toughest schedule in college football this year. Also we played the most talented AND best coached defenses in the country this year.

Georgia, Ohio st, and Clemson aren't in that group of the best and most talented defenses? El oh el

 

[The Situation]

Mullen is absolutely a good play caller. There is rhyme and reason to it. You can see him setting things up. You can see him hiding weaknesses and maximizing strengths by his play calling- and you can see this change game to game and year to year depending on personnel. He’s very good at identifying what he has and play calling to it.

Agree to disagree. Mullen has a lot of common sense though, and has good overall gameplans. His in-game coaching and calls left a lot to be desired.

 

[The Situation]

Bartoo also said, State played the 3rd toughest schedule in college football this year. Also we played the most talented AND best coached defenses in the country this year.

That doesn't fit the 'easy schedule' narrative so many of our fans have created.

 

[Dawgzilla]

Kiffin has never held a job long enough to show whether he was a good coach. He made his reputation working for Pete Carroll at USC. Since then he hasn't accomplished anything. He did fine as Alabama's OC, but, then, so did Steve Sarkisian. I think he will be hired by a P5 school soon, and it will be a disaster.

 

[TrapGame.sixpack]

Bartoo also said, State played the 3rd toughest schedule in college football this year. Also we played the most talented AND best coached defenses in the country this year.

But isn't that based on his "metric"?

 

[RPOdawg]

Kiffin has never held a job long enough to show whether he was a good coach. He made his reputation working for Pete Carroll at USC. Since then he hasn't accomplished anything. He did fine as Alabama's OC, but, then, so did Steve Sarkisian. I think he will be hired by a P5 school soon, and it will be a disaster.

I could do fine as Alabama’s OC as well

 

[maroonmania]

According to most advanced stats, Moorhead has been very close to expectations. Whether we all like it or not.

So with an offensive 'guru', even if you pair him with the top scoring defense in the nation, all we can expect is 8-4? Something doesn't smell right about that. I realize you can use the old well 'he doesn't have his type offensive players yet' but still. I'm wondering if at MSU he will ever have what he supposedly needs on offense.

 

[Philly Dawg]

I’m not sure we can call what Bartoo does “advanced stats.” It’s more mathy than math.

 

[UpTheMiddlex3Punt]

I'd like to see D&D character sheets on these college coaches.

Some other interesting coaching effects:
Nick Saban: +2 on officiating saving throws against non-blue bloods. -5 Special Teams Penalty during last 2 minutes of a half.
Dan Mullen: -1 Clock Management. +1 Coaching when team favored against the spread.
Joe Moorhead: -1 Strength and Conditioning Penalty per quarter. Shield of Offensive Savant (+2 Quarterback bonus if Quarterback has at least an 18 INT, -2 Quarterback penalty otherwise).

 

[$altyDawg]

Until you watch some of the games, which have been well below.

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

So with an offensive 'guru', even if you pair him with the top scoring defense in the nation, all we can expect is 8-4? Something doesn't smell right about that. I realize you can use the old well 'he doesn't have his type offensive players yet' but still. I'm wondering if at MSU he will ever have what he supposedly needs on offense.

Transition has some effect. Changing all the coaches out and terminology etc. At the same time I say all that Bartoo probly doesn't know as much as he thinks he does. He would be coaching somewhere for 6 million a year if he was

 

[Drebin]

According to most advanced stats, Moorhead has been very close to expectations. Whether we all like it or not.

Because you say it over and over doesn't eventually make it true.

 

[The Situation]

So with an offensive 'guru', even if you pair him with the top scoring defense in the nation, all we can expect is 8-4? Something doesn't smell right about that. I realize you can use the old well 'he doesn't have his type offensive players yet' but still. I'm wondering if at MSU he will ever have what he supposedly needs on offense.

It's pretty simple when you think about it.

It boils down to us having typical MSU talent everywhere, but a stacked JUCO class on top of an upperclass heavy team in general. A lot of that overlap was on defense, obviously. That explains why the defense was #1 but we were still considered an 8 win team.

Remember, we had the #1 ranked defense in 1999 and pretty high again in 2000, and went 9-2 (10-2 in the modern era because we'd have had an FCS opponent now that we didn't have back then) and 7-4 (8-4). Of course, that schedule in 1999 was really easy SEC-wise, I think we drew Vandy, winless South Carolina and Kentucky that year. 2000 was more like 2018. Everybody thought we were national contenders then too, but we proved to be pretenders.

 

[TheStateUofMS]

I hope OM hires Kiffin. Not sure about Norvell. Could be good could be bad. I feel pretty good Napier would be a good coach though. He fits perfectly with their personnel they have on offense. Rich Rod would be a good OC under Napier as HC.

 

[$altyDawg]

And it looks like he's still dragging his almost 80 year old dad around to help him on defense. I wonder if he'll be a part of the package where Lane ends up next?

 

[$altyDawg]

Or in big games where it was QB draw 20 times or more.

 

[The Situation]

Because you say it over and over doesn't eventually make it true.

I realize you hate facts, but you're just boring at this point.

Proof of derp: https://www.sbnation.com/college-fo...i-state-football-2018-preview-schedule-roster

It's time to move on.

 

[wtw2400]

Kiffin ended up putting Tennessee and USC into as bad of a spot as they could be in. And probably had one of the most entertaining firings with Al Davis(on youtube should watch sometime if you haven't or didn't at the time).

Maybe you can look at what hes done at FAU and say that may lead to success at another SEC school. But he's been a clear P5 Failure. So it's no surprise that it's a questionable hire.

Kind of reminds me at a smaller scale about how everyone yapped about Chip Kelly. I knew as soon as his offense couldn't score on that meh 2010 Auburn Defense that he was overrated. And he just is.

 

[TheStateUofMS]

I've let it be known before, but when I was younger I did a little work for Bartoo. Interacted with him quite a bit. Few 1hr plus phone calls. The man is very smart. He has irons in the fire in all sorts of stuff out in Oregon where he lives.

I haven't listened to him in a while though since I moved from MS because I don't listen to Bo too often anymore.

Thing about Bartoo is he offers his opinion based on his data. He actually doesn't even watch that much football is what he told me.

 

[The Situation]

Transition has some effect. Changing all the coaches out and terminology etc. At the same time I say all that Bartoo probly doesn't know as much as he thinks he does. He would be coaching somewhere for 6 million a year if he was

Yep. Bartoo's system doesn't take into effect any transition. He and Bounds were talking about how McIntyre had the best year out of MSU/OM coordinators, and didn't mention the talent left over. They did explain a lot of the context though.

 

[mdm3045]

I could do fine as Alabama’s OC as well

Name a good OC at Bama before Kiffin

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

According to most advanced stats, Moorhead has been very close to expectations. Whether we all like it or not.

How about simple stats?

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs

#65 - Total Offense
#75 - Scoring Offense
#112 - Passing Offense
#74 - 3rd Down Conversions
#51 - Fewest Penalties
#100 - Turnovers Lost
#62 - First Downs

That might be some folks expectations but not if you are trying to win.

At least Kylin got us up to #17 in rushing offense.

 

[RPOdawg]

This is really about the only thing that I've seen or heard that has given me pause on Kiffin. Bartoo's system is not perfect, but it is one of the only ways we have of looking at a coach's record/resume without bias. Ole Miss fan's will freak out if they don't get Norvell or Kiffin, but Napier could very easily become the best of the 3. These thing's are total crapshoots.

I’d rather them get Kiffin than Napier 100%

 

[RPOdawg]

Name a good OC at Bama before Kiffin

Jim McElwain

 

[Drebin]

I realize you hate facts, but you're just boring at this point.

Proof of derp: https://www.sbnation.com/college-fo...i-state-football-2018-preview-schedule-roster

It's time to move on.

You sound like Nancy Pelosi, talking about "facts" that you have yet to present.

I didn't click your little link, so I don't know what you're trying to prove. You can make numbers look like anything. I choose to rely on what I see on the field with my own eyes. Most people agree. You're not presenting facts. You're sharing your opinion - one that most disagree with.

It's time to stop defending the indefensible.

 

[hogfan14]

Morris wasn't a bad recruiter. Doesn't matter if you can't coach or develop at all though. He never came close to having a season like Kiffin is currently having.

 

[Shamoan]

change any 3 of Florida '18, Kentucky '18, Iowa '18, Tennessee '19, and Kansas State '19 and its an entirely different narrative and if we are somewhat competitive in some of the blowout losses, we are probably talking about how we keep him.

 

[RPOdawg]

Morris wasn't a bad recruiter. Doesn't matter if you can't coach or develop at all though. He never came close to having a season like Kiffin is currently having.

He sure as **** wasn’t a “good” recruiter

 

[$altyDawg]

Doug Nussmeier