Tutorgate 10 guarantees Joe next year, which is the wrong decision

[TheStateUofMS]

Imagine being fired from your performance based job with several top employees out on leave for nearly 70% of the year with a few being high achievers on the sales floor. I think Cohen will look at this from that perspective and being a former coach he probably has some sympathy for Joe.

Having said that, it's clear as day the tutorgate fiasco has nothing to do with the 99 other problems we have. Sigh....

 

[MSUDC11]

Ok.

 

[She Mate Me]

Imagine being fired from your performance based job with several top employees out on leave for nearly 70% of the year with a few being high achievers on the sales floor. I think Cohen will look at this from that perspective and being a former coach he probably has some sympathy for Joe.

Having said that, it's clear as day the tutorgate fiasco has nothing to do with the 99 other problems we have. Sigh....

You know, we're getting to the point where it's all been said before. Jus sayin.

 

[The Situation]

It does, assuming a baseline level of competency. We haven't really seen that this year, but I agree, you still can't pull the plug on firing him unless he loses badly to Ole Miss, at home, with a better roster, with no suspensions, and a bowl on the line.

Kansas State was bad, but not killer, considering the maturity on their roster. Auburn, LSU, and Alabama were bad, but can be sort of explained away due to talent gaps. Tennessee was bad, but it was on a road against a team with an equal or better roster on paper.

There is no such excuse for Ole Miss. It's quite simple.

Another thing that is damning to me is the management of Tutorgate 10, the suspensions, etc. It was awful. But honestly a lot of that falls on Cohen which may signify bigger issues.

The management of the quarterbacks has been awful, from Thompson to Stevens to Shrader.

Every decision made this year has been the wrong one. Schedule sucked. Gameday sucked. Weather sucked.

 

[philduckworth]

Nah, the tutorgate 10 didn't effect the offense. Also, we lost to UT with them.

Lose to Ole Miss and things will get interesting.

 

[TheStateUofMS]

I know. I've been commenting a lot like everyone else and much has been beating a dead horse, but I kind of came to terms with this last night and wanted to wait until I got to work to make the post so I had something to do today***

 

[TheStateUofMS]

I get it. All good points, but if we were full strength the entire year, you never know how a team ends up gelling. I mean CJ Morgan was picked on all year, but he looked pretty good at a soph when he had studs taking some pressure off him by getting to the QB quickly and not making CJ cover. Perhaps Autry, Gay and Murphy would have shielded his poor coverage skills. Some younger guys would have been allowed to develop as well getting PT without too much on their shoulders.

None of that fixes the 99 other problems though, but we probably would have won at least one more game being full strength all year. Either Tenn or KSU.

 

[patdog]

The management of the quarterbacks has been awful, from Thompson to Stevens to Shrader.

I don't think it would be possible for him to have done a worse job with our QBs the last 2 years if he tried. Which is hard to do considering he inherited a pretty good situation at QB and managed to bring in 2 more who looked promising at the time.

 

[She Mate Me]

I know. I've been commenting a lot like everyone else and much has been beating a dead horse, but I kind of came to terms with this last night and wanted to wait until I got to work to make the post so I had something to do today***

Guvmt job?

 

[TheStateUofMS]

LMAO no I was being sarcastic. I'm one of the stock market gurus on here don't ya know!***

 

[Seinfeld]

Where I differ from a lot of people on the subject of tutorgate is that I don’t see it as a pass for Moorhead. I see it as another black mark

Either he knew about it, someone he trusts dearly to overlook academics knew about it, or they should’ve known about it. No answer is acceptable, and it’s not as if I think Joe should be canned for it, but he is not the victim here. Tutorgate happened on his watch as MSU head football coach, and he doesn’t get a pass for it

 

[TheStateUofMS]

I agree it'll be interesting if we lose the EB and I was ready to move on after the UK win and got roasted on here for it, but there is a strong case to be made for having another year having to play down 10 men all year and some of those guys being elite to border line elite talents.

Another thing I was shocked to here was Willie Taggert had one of the shortest tenures of any P5 coach in history. Joe only getting 2 seasons would make him up there for one of the shortest as well I'd imagine. He's earned the right to have one of the shortest tenures, however, I just don't think it's gonna happen outside of a total *** kicking by OM.

 

[The Situation]

Nah, the tutorgate 10 didn't effect the offense. Also, we lost to UT with them.

Lose to Ole Miss and things will get interesting.

The performance of our defense absolutely affects the offense. You just showed a little football ignorance. Just sayin'.

 

[thatsbaseball]

More to the point...exactly whose fault was tutorgate ?

 

[philduckworth]

The performance of our defense absolutely affects the offense. You just showed a little football ignorance. Just sayin'.

I always appreciate your insights Goat. I always learn something.**

 

[philduckworth]

More to the point...exactly whose fault was tutorgate ?

The players, the tutor, academic advisors, Moorhead, Brackey/Compliance and ultimately Cohen.

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

It's the right decision. There is a lot more than tutorgate going on this year. This roster is full of holes. Full of injuries. For some reason we have freshmen and RS freshmen playing all over the field. I'm not sure what happened to all our sophomores but we must not have any. Freshmen all thru the defense and we even have to turn to a true freshman running back.

 

[BulldogBillyCrash]

You know, we're getting to the point where it's all been said before. Jus sayin.

It’s become a daily thing with the same posters complaining about that same thing. Allow me to highjack this thread with something different the men’s basketball team is playing in the myrtle beach invitational starting Thursday at 1 vs. Tulane. If we beat them we will most likely get Villanova which will be a solid OOC victory if they can pull it out.

 

[Nunya.sixpack]

You know, we're getting to the point where it's all been said before. Jus sayin.

slow news day.

btw, Andrew luck retired.

 

[RiverCityDawg]

Imagine being fired from your performance based job with several top employees out on leave for nearly 70% of the year with a few being high achievers on the sales floor. I think Cohen will look at this from that perspective and being a former coach he probably has some sympathy for Joe.

Having said that, it's clear as day the tutorgate fiasco has nothing to do with the 99 other problems we have. Sigh....

I just don't think it does. IB already knows whether Joe is getting it done and/or if he can get it done. He might or might not still think he's the guy, but either way he doesn't need to wonder about what could have been without tutorgate 10 to make a determination no more than any of us do.

The other side is if someone thinks it shows bad to prospective replacements that we fired a guy after one losing season when he had 10 guys suspended for 8 games. I think if that question or hesitation comes up it's easily explainable based on how we have trended, what Joe took over, the lack of discipline and toughness and the fact that the offense was pretty much unaffected by the suspensions. Also, I would say any coach that's "scared" to take over the job isn't going to be the right guy anyway. We've proven we will pay top 20 money if you have the guys playing hard, disciplined and win 8 or so games a year. Any coach who doesn't think he can do that isn't worthy consideration anyway.

 

[patdog]

Ultimately, the university and Keenum for not having controls in place to prevent academic fraud in online classes.

 

[TheStateUofMS]

I don't think it would be possible for him to have done a worse job with our QBs the last 2 years if he tried. Which is hard to do considering he inherited a pretty good situation at QB and managed to bring in 2 more who looked promising at the time.

Yes this is included in the "99 other problems" Joe created department.

 

[philduckworth]

our starting offense vs Bama consisted of 6 seniors and 5 juniors. We scored 7 points total and that drive was extended thanks to a face mask on a 3rd down sack.

 

[TheStateUofMS]

I agree with you. No coach is going to be "scared" to get paid $3-4mil per year no matter the amount of pressure either.

 

[Phil Wenneck.sixpack]

Several top employees? I count only 3. Gay, Autry, Murphey. And even Murphey

wasn't guaranteed to start. None of the other suspended players were ever expected to make meaningful contributions this year. Let alone the fact that the 3 listed above are all on defense. JoeMo's high powered offensive attack wasn't affected at all.

 

[philduckworth]

wasn't guaranteed to start. None of the other suspended players were ever expected to make meaningful contributions this year. Let alone the fact that the 3 listed above are all on defense. JoeMo's high powered offensive attack wasn't affected at all.

I don't know why so many people struggle with this concept. It's the tutorgate 3, not the tutorgate 10.

 

[TheStateUofMS]

All 3 are getting a shot in the NFL and who knows how the others would have played but they were some high profile recruits, so yes "top employees" is a good analogy IMO especially considering Gay was a potential 1st round draft pick.

 

[Dawgzilla]

It's not a question of "fear" from potential coaches. The question is whether they think coming to Mississippi State can further their career. State is a difficult place to succeed, and if the school is going to have a quick trigger on firing you, then maybe you wait for a position where people will be a little more patient.

If Cohen is even thinking about firing Moorhead, then he better be on the phone with agents figuring out who the replacement would be. The last thing we want to do is fire Moorhead, only to find out that no one else wants the job.

 

[BigWorm.sixpack]

The players, the tutor, academic advisors, Moorhead, Brackey/Compliance and ultimately Cohen.

I supported Moorhead for as long as anyone, and I've come to the realization that he is not a fit at Mississippi State. BUT, as a former student athlete at MSU, if I decided to cheat on a test or get drunk and get a DUI, that is 100% on ME. You can blame my parents, all my teachers in grade school and my head coach in college, but all of that is a cop out for who's really to blame here. These young adults made a poor judgement like 99% of all the posters on this board made while attending college... and they are paying the price. You can blame Cohen and CJM for a lot of things but it's a stretch to place blame on them for the tutor scandal. All of these Student-Athletes know about the honor code because it is plastered all throughout the Templeton Athletic-Academic Center and addressed by the AD and the faculty-athletics representative at the beginning of the year before the first class is attended.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

the tutorgate 10 is the most worn out narrative and excuse for this sorry excuse for a football coach and football season. he has had no suspensions on the starting offense all season. he has had 2/3 starters on defense this season. only 1 of those is really a top profile player from last year and expected to be a top profile player from last year. They are not and were not expected to be world changers for the defense this season. those 3 players didn't have much of an impact in the games they have played except for the kentucky game which one of them got themselves kicked out of because of the continued lack of discipline.

just stop with this worn out narrative. unfortunately if you have employees that are breaking the rules you are ultimately held accountable as the CEO if the rest of the company is flailing. if it was just one department where those employees are out, then you might get the benefit of the doubt to make some changes, but when it's the whole company struggling including the department you are supposed to be the SME of, then there isn't much of an excuse for the poor performance.

 

[She Mate Me]

slow news day.

btw, Andrew luck retired.

Shut the front door!! When did that happen??

 

[RiverCityDawg]

It's not a question of "fear" from potential coaches. The question is whether they think coming to Mississippi State can further their career. State is a difficult place to succeed, and if the school is going to have a quick trigger on firing you, then maybe you wait for a position where people will be a little more patient.

We literally just had a coach average about 8 wins a year with a $4M/yr salary parlay that into a top 10 job and a $6M/yr salary. What more do we need to show that this is a place where you can further your career? Again, if he doesn't think he can do what Mullen did he isn't the right person for the job anyway.

Worst case scenario is Hud, who would without a doubt be better than Joe.

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

our starting offense vs Bama consisted of 6 seniors and 5 juniors. We scored 7 points total and that drive was extended thanks to a face mask on a 3rd down sack.

So we haven't been playing a ton of freshmen and RS freshmen ?? Check the defensive side of the ball. We only have 8 true freshmen that haven't played so far and we have had to burn 6 chances to rs guys

 

[Dawgtruc]

Nah, the tutorgate 10 didn't effect the offense. Also, we lost to UT with them.

Lose to Ole Miss and things will get interesting.

But injured QBs and OL affected the offense.

 

[tenureplan]

^ This OFC

Not only does the whole thing put a taint on our athletic programs, but it puts a taint on all of our degrees.

 

[TheStateUofMS]

I agree. I just said why I think he gets another year and what the logic may be for the man making the decision who will look at this, at least partially, through the eyes of a coach.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

i know. i've heard cohen make a lot of excuses. i get him not trying to throw him under the bus, but at the same time you can be serious and talk about expectations and being better without throwing him under the bus at the same time. You can say that we need to be better and we expect better and the coaches understand that. that's saying your coaches are sucking it up without throwing them under the bus.

 

[Dawgzilla]

Mullen was the exception, and not the rule. State was a coaching graveyard before Mullen came along. Potential new coaches will see what Mullen did, but also see how we treated Moorhead. We stuck with Mullen through some difficult seasons, but we dump the new guy after 2 years? I'm not saying no one will take the job, I'm saying Cohen better know what direction he is going before he thinks about firing Moorhead, regardless of the result of the Egg Bowl.

 

[TheStateUofMS]

The fact he's lost several games he was favored in and routinely can't beat the spread tells you Joe's results are below expectations. I'm not saying ATS should be used to fire a coach, but it's one of many indicators that suggest Joe has not lived up to the billing. The #1 thing of course is what he was brought here to do: upgrade the offense. The offense has been terrible.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

The fact he's lost several games he was favored in and routinely can't beat the spread tells you Joe's results are below expectations. I'm not saying ATS should be used to fire a coach, but it's one of many indicators that suggest Joe has not lived up to the billing. The #1 thing of course is what he was brought here to do: upgrade the offense. The offense has been terrible.

he really kind of screwed himself this year bringing in tommy and only playing tommy and shrader. if he would have played Thompson, the results may have been the same, but then he could have said i'm still trying to build and get my qb ready. This year he only played his qb's. that didn't work out for him either.