Cohen hired the two time National O coordinator from a high profile program

[jdbulldog]

please show me the posts immediately after the hire that were highly critical. Just about everyone believed Joe was a good hire. Had Cohen passed on Joe people would have called him an idiot. The best measure of Cohen will be how he handles this now.

 

[msstate7]

What does any of that matter now? Joe sucks, and he has to go. Hindsight and all, but penn state had an unbelievable collection of skill players... it would've been really hard to not be great offensively with 2 nfl RBs, nfl qb, nfl te, and 2 nfl WRs in the big10. I really hope this time around that Cohen looks at guys that get the job done without having an extreme talent advantage bc we won't have that here. Joe still kills it when he has a decided advantage... if we even or at a disadvantage, forget it.

 

[57stratdawg]

There aren’t any. None in the media either. I just don’t think the people involved in that hiring decision really understood the level of change required to go from Mullen’s offense to Moorhead’s. They saw innovative coach taking over for innovative coach. They did not register the overhaul at QB, rebuild at WR and change in OL.

 

[Shmuley]

They also failed to account for the wholesale change over in assistants that precipitated a wholesale change in culture, attitude, work ethic, accountability, etc, etc

 

[Cooterpoot]

He was two time national OC of the year? When?

 

[ronpolk]

Some hires work out and some don’t. I’m not blaming Cohen for joe not working out. Although it probably would have made more sense to hire someone that runs the same type of offense to keep the train rolling.

To me, Cohen will be judged on how he moves forward. Joe has not given a single reason for optimism. The further we delay getting rid of him the further he’s going to damage what was built.

 

[wayneland5025]

Ole Miss is going to roll over us if they play anything like they did last night. If Cohen and Keenum cant get rid of Jomo after that happens we will be Arkansas next year for sure. I dont see how we can do worse for a head coach, although I know there will be no magic overnight cure whoever we get. The mistake was already made.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

You can give Cohen a pass on the hire, but you can’t on giving Joe an extension or the constant Cluster 17 of not being able to handle Game Day Operations with 35 -50K in attendance when Stricklin had far less trouble handling 60K.

 

[patdog]

It's not that big of a change from Mullen's offense to this one. The difference is, players were coached to execute and were generally used to get the best out of their ability before.

 

[The Situation]

It's not that big of a change from Mullen's offense to this one.

Good Lord son.

Rich Rods offense is not that big of a change. Moorhead’s is a wholesale change.

I mean, whatever you think. Just amazing that you can have a take THAT bad.

 

[kired]

I assume the point is that it’s dumb to act like Cohen made a bad decision in hiring Joe.

 

[dawgdr]

My issue with the hire is the whole “I’m not using someone else’s offense” attitude. Arkansas same way. A set up for failure. I don’t understand the AD not asking that question and I sure as hell don’t understand pig headed coaches. Maybe at AL you can get the players to fit your system every year. But coaches need to be able to adapt to what they have. May not have made a difference this year. But last at least two games.

One thing to tell you he is not a good head coach. One simple thing. We keep running kick offs back instead of fair catching. I would have had a stroke had I been the coach the
second time that happened.

 

[Cooterpoot]

Moorhead was demoted at UConn and about to be fired before resigning at another stop. His offense wasn’t good vs the best teams in the Big 10 with the talent he had. Nobody even attempted to look into Moorhead. They saw Barkley.

 

[campshelbydog842003]

It really is not that hard to google. 16 and 17....it’s in his biography on the Mississippi State athletic department page. It is on cohen to fix his mistake. Coaching hires are a crapshoot. He was amazing as an OC. He was amazing as a head coach at a lower level. You sound ridiculous acting like Cohen should have known what literally no one else in the football landscape knew....except you, who are nowhere in the football landscape, obviously.

 

[Dawgzilla]

My issue with the hire is the whole “I’m not using someone else’s offense” attitude. Arkansas same way. A set up for failure. I don’t understand the AD not asking that question and I sure as hell don’t understand pig headed coaches. Maybe at AL you can get the players to fit your system every year. But coaches need to be able to adapt to what they have. May not have made a difference this year. But last at least two games.

One thing to tell you he is not a good head coach. One simple thing. We keep running kick offs back instead of fair catching. I would have had a stroke had I been the coach the
second time that happened.

It wasn't supposed to be that big of a change from Mullen's offense, and it was supposed to be a versatile enough offense to utilize the strengths of our players. That's how Moorhead sold his offense, and how multiple experts explained his offense.

I've posted multiple times that I still dont understand the disconnect between what this offense is supposed to be vs. what we see on the field.

There are multiple videos out there of JoMo explaining the versatility of his offense so that he can adapt it to his players' strengths, and describing an offensive philosophy that doesn't mesh with what we're seeing.

I'm as frustrated as anyone, but to claim that Cohen should have known better or that Cohen was deciding to make a wholesale change in offensive philosophy is just hindsight. In real time it seemed that Mullen to Moorhead should be a seamless transition.

 

[Cooterpoot]

It really is not that hard to google. 16 and 17....it’s in his biography on the Mississippi State athletic department page. It is on cohen to fix his mistake. Coaching hires are a crapshoot. He was amazing as an OC. He was amazing as a head coach at a lower level. You sound ridiculous acting like Cohen should have known what literally no one else in the football landscape knew....except you, who are nowhere in the football landscape, obviously.

It’s simple *** research. Go look who named Moorhead OC of the year those years.
Cohen didn’t research his hire. He didn’t do his job.

 

[Ibdancin]

What does any of that matter now? Joe sucks, and he has to go. Hindsight and all, but penn state had an unbelievable collection of skill players... it would've been really hard to not be great offensively with 2 nfl RBs, nfl qb, nfl te, and 2 nfl WRs in the big10. I really hope this time around that Cohen looks at guys that get the job done without having an extreme talent advantage bc we won't have that here. Joe still kills it when he has a decided advantage... if we even or at a disadvantage, forget it.

Why would we not give him the proper amount of time to build that here. You mentioned RBs.... Look at who HE is bringing in. Look at what he is bringing in with WRs. Look at the kid at QB. The passing game is better than last year.

What he was facing is not a quick fix. Like it or not, we lack the players we need and Mullen would have too. It was his graduating class that put us in a hole for this season.

SO Moorhead gets another year. And I expect that to be one where he has to prove it.

 

[Ibdancin]

There aren’t any. None in the media either. I just don’t think the people involved in that hiring decision really understood the level of change required to go from Mullen’s offense to Moorhead’s. They saw innovative coach taking over for innovative coach. They did not register the overhaul at QB, rebuild at WR and change in OL.

This is the most accurate statement I have read in a while. I just have to add the roster issues created by Mullen.

 

[Ibdancin]

It's not that big of a change from Mullen's offense to this one. The difference is, players were coached to execute and were generally used to get the best out of their ability before.

It's a major change. In Moorhead's system, he needs an accurate QB and down field threats. Mullen did not. It's why he never recruited and put WRs in the NFL because WRs knew they would not be show cased.

Even the reads are different.

 

[Ibdancin]

My issue with the hire is the whole “I’m not using someone else’s offense” attitude. Arkansas same way. A set up for failure. I don’t understand the AD not asking that question and I sure as hell don’t understand pig headed coaches. Maybe at AL you can get the players to fit your system every year. But coaches need to be able to adapt to what they have. May not have made a difference this year. But last at least two games.

One thing to tell you he is not a good head coach. One simple thing. We keep running kick offs back instead of fair catching. I would have had a stroke had I been the coach the
second time that happened.

Moorhead was not hired to run Mullen's offense. He was hired for his offense in the wake of the upgrades that LSU, Bama etc were moving towards. What you seem to be saying is that we are Ms St and we will never recruit the players we need.

Moorhead seems to be proving that wrong. Now will that translate to the field? We are going to find out. If it does not, he will be fired. If it does, then he will get another year for 2021.

 

[ronpolk]

Moorhead was not hired to run Mullen's offense. He was hired for his offense in the wake of the upgrades that LSU, Bama etc were moving towards. What you seem to be saying is that we are Ms St and we will never recruit the players we need.

Moorhead seems to be proving that wrong. Now will that translate to the field? We are going to find out. If it does not, he will be fired. If it does, then he will get another year for 2021.

If Mullen left such **** and joe is recruiting so good, name me an offensive joe recruit that is producing?

 

[Strike.sixpack]

Good Lord son.

Rich Rods offense is not that big of a change. Moorhead’s is a wholesale change.

I mean, whatever you think. Just amazing that you can have a take THAT bad.

The run scheme was very similar. They even run several plays almost identical with the same option tag. Moorehead even stayed that their systems are in the same “church but not the same pew” overall. That is NOT a wholesale change. Heck what we ran vs Auburn last year was already in Moorehead’s playbook. That was not a game plan in which we went back to Mullen’s playbook.

 

[campshelbydog842003]

Moorhead was also named the top rising assistant coach in the country by both Sports Illustrated and Yahoo. Who the 17 else did you want to say he was good? It really is ok to be mad at Moorhead for sucking and have enough common sense to realize that it was a well thought out hire that made sense on paper. I bet the Patriots are glad they went ahead and hired their current head coach even after one failed stop 30 years ago. Seahawks too.

 

[The Situation]

The run scheme was very similar. They even run several plays almost identical with the same option tag. Moorehead even stayed that their systems are in the same “church but not the same pew” overall. That is NOT a wholesale change. Heck what we ran vs Auburn last year was already in Moorehead’s playbook. That was not a game plan in which we went back to Mullen’s playbook.

Yeah, no, it wasn't.

 

[Strike.sixpack]

Yeah, no, it wasn't.

Uh...yes it is. Read what they are doing in the run game. Not the RPO’s but the run /blocking portion of the offense. There is a lot of overlap. And you are just going to disregard what Moorehead himself said about the offenses? Sorry but if you think this was a wholesale change in offense, then you have no clue about X & O’s within the run section of the systems

 

[The Situation]

If Mullen left such **** and joe is recruiting so good, name me an offensive joe recruit that is producing?

Uh, Shrader?

But either way, it doesn't matter. Apparently you don't understand that all Joe's recruits are freshmen or redshirt freshmen, so they likelihood they were going to produce was always low.

 

[Cooterpoot]

Moorhead was also named the top rising assistant coach in the country by both Sports Illustrated and Yahoo. Who the 17 else did you want to say he was good? It really is ok to be mad at Moorhead for sucking and have enough common sense to realize that it was a well thought out hire that made sense on paper. I bet the Patriots are glad they went ahead and hired their current head coach even after one failed stop 30 years ago. Seahawks too.

It was 247 Sports, a recruiting site that named him top OC. We put that crap in his bio. There is no top OC award. He didn’t win the Broyles award for top assistant either. Yahoo and Sports Illustrated know less about football than my dog. The man failed at two of three big school stops and the one he succeeded at had Barkley and a load of NFL talent. And still didn’t handle the better defenses in that conference.

 

[Bullldawg78]

Don't blame Cohen on the hire, it's simple refusing to recognize a mistake and be a leader and fix the mistake, not point fingers who fault etc.... Just fix it plain and simple.

 

[ronpolk]

Uh, Shrader?

But either way, it doesn't matter. Apparently you don't understand that all Joe's recruits are freshmen or redshirt freshmen, so they likelihood they were going to produce was always low.

I would expect that if they skill players were that bad under Mullen at least someone of joe’s would have stepped forward regardless of age, similar to bumphis.

 

[The Situation]

I would expect that if they skill players were that bad under Mullen at least someone of joe’s would have stepped forward regardless of age, similar to bumphis.

Unfortunately for your bad argument, age does matter. Can’t just say ‘regardless’.

But yeah, Shrader. I noticed you ignored him.

 

[ronpolk]

Unfortunately for your bad argument, age does matter. Can’t just say ‘regardless’.

But yeah, Shrader. I noticed you ignored him.

I have not noticed him on the field the last couple of games. Can you post his stats from the Bama game?

 

[Ibdancin]

If Mullen left such **** and joe is recruiting so good, name me an offensive joe recruit that is producing?

1st, it's not an either or. We can point out things with out it being all or nothing. Mullen recruited his way. His record shows it and there is nothing more anybody can do about that. It's history. 2011,2013,2016... all due to his recruiting. Remember the 1a and 1b defense. It was his pattern. There's nothing wrong with point that out. 2019 is that pattern showing up.

2nd, Moorhead inherited a great defense and they made it better. He did not inherit a great offense. We all complained about the lack of WRs and Fitz not throw decent passes. How was that going to get better under Moorhead in year 1 when 2 of the top receivers graduated, the other was injured and never the same? How was it a great offense inherited when Fitz was a 51% passer? How was it great when 5 of the WRs out of the 10 on roster were gone from 2017? We had the 112th ranked passing game in 2017 and lost 5 wrs, and a special TE... Somethings are not either or and no in-between.

3rd, you asked for an offensive recruit that is producing. Shrader. But let's not stop there. Moorhead had to replace 5 wrs. He got a 4 star in 3 weeks time. Out of the 14 passing TDs, his recruit has 4, Guidry. Stevens... to date, the best passing QB since Dak. But what do you expect with not even 2 years. What's reasonable?

4th, everybody knew that in year 2 we would take steps backwards. There was way to much to over come in attrition that we ALL knew was going to happen. That's amplified by 10 players who cheated in the transition of a new coach coming in. There are 3 starters on that bench at every level of that defense. We all knew this coming in.


So that moves us to what's being done about it. Recruiting. It's the only way to fix a recruiting issue a coach inherited. You are not going to fix it without it and had mullen stayed, he would have been dealing with that too.

He recruited an OL and it the first 5 star OL we have ever signed. EVER. And he was our first 5 star on offense since 2002.
Cross OT 5 star
Johnson OT 4 star
Shrader 4 star
Guidry 4 star
4 more 4 stars coming in with this class.

But he didn't stop with that. Look at the talent he signed for defense.

 

[Shmuley]

1 rush attempt. Minus one yard.

 

[Ibdancin]

I would expect that if they skill players were that bad under Mullen at least someone of joe’s would have stepped forward regardless of age, similar to bumphis.

Bo Nix... again, young players in this league at skill positions lack the experience to do great no matter WHERE they are on roster at. But you have been given names... like I said, it's not either or. There are actual processes that matter. NOBODY was going to come in and make year 2 be dramatic. Too many needs from attrition.

 

[Ibdancin]

I have not noticed him on the field the last couple of games. Can you post his stats from the Bama game?

That's dishonest. Here are his stats:

1022 passing yards
503 rushing yards.

Like I said.. somethings matter and if you don't care to know, then you won't. If what you want to do is yell, then carry on. BUT if you want honesty, look for it. You want see Shrader unless you have to. He isn't 100% and will have surgery in the off season.

 

[ronpolk]

1st, it's not an either or. We can point out things with out it being all or nothing. Mullen recruited his way. His record shows it and there is nothing more anybody can do about that. It's history. 2011,2013,2016... all due to his recruiting. Remember the 1a and 1b defense. It was his pattern. There's nothing wrong with point that out. 2019 is that pattern showing up.

2nd, Moorhead inherited a great defense and they made it better. He did not inherit a great offense. We all complained about the lack of WRs and Fitz not throw decent passes. How was that going to get better under Moorhead in year 1 when 2 of the top receivers graduated, the other was injured and never the same? How was it a great offense inherited when Fitz was a 51% passer? How was it great when 5 of the WRs out of the 10 on roster were gone from 2017? We had the 112th ranked passing game in 2017 and lost 5 wrs, and a special TE... Somethings are not either or and no in-between.

3rd, you asked for an offensive recruit that is producing. Shrader. But let's not stop there. Moorhead had to replace 5 wrs. He got a 4 star in 3 weeks time. Out of the 14 passing TDs, his recruit has 4, Guidry. Stevens... to date, the best passing QB since Dak. But what do you expect with not even 2 years. What's reasonable?

4th, everybody knew that in year 2 we would take steps backwards. There was way to much to over come in attrition that we ALL knew was going to happen. That's amplified by 10 players who cheated in the transition of a new coach coming in. There are 3 starters on that bench at every level of that defense. We all knew this coming in.


So that moves us to what's being done about it. Recruiting. It's the only way to fix a recruiting issue a coach inherited. You are not going to fix it without it and had mullen stayed, he would have been dealing with that too.

He recruited an OL and it the first 5 star OL we have ever signed. EVER. And he was our first 5 star on offense since 2002.
Cross OT 5 star
Johnson OT 4 star
Shrader 4 star
Guidry 4 star
4 more 4 stars coming in with this class.

But he didn't stop with that. Look at the talent he signed for defense.

Joe inherited an offense that averaged 30 points per game. Statistically speaking, I would imagine the 2017 offense is probably one of the better in MSU history. Just because joe couldn’t figure out how to coach it does not mean it was not good.

 

[ronpolk]

1 rush attempt. Minus one yard.

Exactly. My point is not to run him down because I think he’s going to be great. My point is that if GS is the prized recruit so far, and has out performed TS, why is he not playing? And it’s because we have an idiot coach that is more worried about throwing a 50 yard touchdown than running a competent offense.

 

[campshelbydog842003]

It was 247 Sports, a recruiting site that named him top OC. We put that crap in his bio. There is no top OC award. He didn’t win the Broyles award for top assistant either. Yahoo and Sports Illustrated know less about football than my dog. The man failed at two of three big school stops and the one he succeeded at had Barkley and a load of NFL talent. And still didn’t handle the better defenses in that conference.

Ok, so sports illustrated and Yahoo, 2 of the biggest sports sites on Earth is not good enough for you. 247, the biggest college football site on earth is not good enough for you. Who in the 17 do you want to give him praise? Please find a negative opinion of him from a credible news outlet when he was hired. I can find plenty positive non biased articles on him when he was hired. Can you find one single negative article or anything about him from people who matter? Just one? I want him fired yesterday, but blaming Cohen for hiring someone that EVERYONE that covers college football praised is just being ridiculous.

 

[The Situation]

Exactly. My point is not to run him down because I think he’s going to be great. My point is that if GS is the prized recruit so far, and has out performed TS, why is he not playing? And it’s because we have an idiot coach that is more worried about throwing a 50 yard touchdown than running a competent offense.

Oh right, Tommy Stevens. Another guy Moorhead brought in.

Stop for your own good.

 

[ronpolk]

Oh right, Tommy Stevens. Another guy Moorhead brought in.

Stop for your own good.

Yeah, TS is really lighting the world on fire. You’re making a real compelling case for Joe’s recruits.