Team Identity

[Dawgzilla]

I have absolutely no issue with us running a pass-oriented spread offense. It doesn't make any difference what type of athletes Mississippi produces, or what type of athlete we have traditionally recruited; if we hire a coach who has a reputation for running a successful passing attack, then we will attract better QBs and WRs. We've simply never really had that type of coach before, so we haven't gotten those types of players.

Everyone saying we cannot be successful with that type of offense must have been really relieved when we didn't hire Spurrier back in '86.

I love a power running game, but to be successful in the SEC West with that type of offense these days you better have NFL talent all across the two-deep in your offensive line. I think that type of game will give us Mullen level success, but nothing beyond that (and, yes, I would be grateful for Mullen level success right now). If we want to compete for a division title, we need an offense that will help overcome our talent deficiencies.

Now, if we have a more wide open offense, we need to combine that with a defense built around a dominating front 7, which absolutely plays to our traditional recruiting strengths. I also think we are more successful with an offense that can stitch together time consuming drives and I don't care of JoMo's big play philosophy. I get his thinking that a time consuming drive can be difficult to maintain, but I think a conservative, time control approach can keep games close against more talented teams and give us a chance to steal a win.

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

I'm not gonna disagree with any of the highly successful ex coaches and athletic directors on here but I think the first and foremost thing this team needs to fix is line play on both sides of the ball. Esp on the O line but also the D line. Either our talent level is pitiful or our O line coach sucks. Pretty simple. On the D line I would accept the excuse that we are playing true freshman but even at that they should still be improving every game if they are being coached up. Improvement there would help everything else in particular on the offense. Kylin just needs a little gap to hit and Shrader needs a couple seconds to survey the field.

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

Problem is

this Strength and Conditioning Issue,

is not an in-season Fix PROCESS.

 

[bruiser.sixpack]

But why on 2 and 6 or 3 and 7 do you throw it 40 yards down field? If 2 guys are going 8 and out and 1 is going 10 and in, and the TE is releasing across the middle, aren’t there enough options to get it out quick for the needed yards to move the chains? Especially if those guys are occupying guys where the RB can block then release as well?

Drew Brees threw for 377 yards Sunday on 34 completions. He completed 12 passes of 8 yards or less. When he needs 15-18 he throws it 25 not 45.

 

[sandwolf.sixpack]

The part that pisses me off is that to my knowledge it's not etched in stone anywhere that we have to make bad hires like our latest loser BUT WE DO over and 17ing over. We once again have sub par athletic administration and the crap flows down hill from there. The blame lies at the top of the ladder and nobody can ultimately straighten this CF out but Keenum.

That one flew right over your head didn't it chief. Of course it is VERY hard to hire a great coach with a good AD but next to impossible with incompetent administrator. If you look at Cohen's resume tell me what you see that would encourage you to think he could pick the right candidate for an SEC HC. I don't know or care what you know about life but your reading comprehension sucks.

Look, I was pissed when we hired Cohen as AD too, and I agree that there was absolutely nothing on his resume to indicate that he was qualified to be the AD of an SEC program.

But I just don't hold the Moorhead train wreck against him. Sure, at the end of the day it falls on him, but I just don't see it as an indictment of him as an AD. It looked like a great hire at the time, he did a good job conducting the search quietly, and he oversaw about as smooth of a coaching transition as you will see. We got all sorts of props from the sports media for making a great hire and having such a well run athletic department (as opposed to Tennessee who was in the middle of their cluster17 of a coaching search). Literally no one saw this coming and I feel like he managed everything as well as he could have, so I am ok with giving him a pass on this. That said, if he allows this **** show to continue, then I will dust off my pitchfork. Moorhead is clearly a bust and if Cohen doesn't recognize that and/or doesn't have the stones to fix it, then I will question his competence.

 

[The Situation]

this Strength and Conditioning Issue,

is not an in-season Fix PROCESS.

Need to do DDP Yoga.

 

[The Situation]

I have absolutely no issue with us running a pass-oriented spread offense. It doesn't make any difference what type of athletes Mississippi produces, or what type of athlete we have traditionally recruited; if we hire a coach who has a reputation for running a successful passing attack, then we will attract better QBs and WRs. We've simply never really had that type of coach before, so we haven't gotten those types of players.

Everyone saying we cannot be successful with that type of offense must have been really relieved when we didn't hire Spurrier back in '86.

I love a power running game, but to be successful in the SEC West with that type of offense these days you better have NFL talent all across the two-deep in your offensive line. I think that type of game will give us Mullen level success, but nothing beyond that (and, yes, I would be grateful for Mullen level success right now). If we want to compete for a division title, we need an offense that will help overcome our talent deficiencies.

Now, if we have a more wide open offense, we need to combine that with a defense built around a dominating front 7, which absolutely plays to our traditional recruiting strengths. I also think we are more successful with an offense that can stitch together time consuming drives and I don't care of JoMo's big play philosophy. I get his thinking that a time consuming drive can be difficult to maintain, but I think a conservative, time control approach can keep games close against more talented teams and give us a chance to steal a win.

What are our most successful teams the modern era? What did they all have in common? That's right, good defense. Defense is absolutely a must, and even when Mullen was here, he was dependent on the defense to get to 8-4 or better.

So the question is, how do we create an offense? You go with your strengths. You don't create a plan that begins with overcoming talent deficiencies. That's nutty.

 

[thatsbaseball]

OK for the sake of this discussion Cohen gets a pass because blah blah blah....NOW do you let him make the next hire ?

 

[Dawgzilla]

So the question is, how do we create an offense? You go with your strengths. You don't create a plan that begins with overcoming talent deficiencies. That's nutty.

Those are not mutually exclusive concepts. We are going to have talent deficiencies in the SEC West no matter what. So, you develop strengths to help you overcome those deficiencies. IMHO, that means a more wide open offense that gets the ball to your playmakers in 1 on 1 opportunities.

 

[The Situation]

Those are not mutually exclusive concepts. We are going to have talent deficiencies in the SEC West no matter what. So, you develop strengths to help you overcome those deficiencies. IMHO, that means a more wide open offense that gets the ball to your playmakers in 1 on 1 opportunities.

Our strengths over time have been road grading linemen, good tailbacks and dual threat quarterbacks. If you want to overcome the talent deficiencies, you'll have to find a good quarterback and some wide receivers. There's really no secret here. In other words, increase the talent.

I've always thought we could innovate by develop a lot of offensive linemen. Having two full units who could just road grade the entire game. Would need to keep about 20 on the roster and balance the classes.

 

[Dawgzilla]

Our strengths over time have been road grading linemen, good tailbacks and dual threat quarterbacks. If you want to overcome the talent deficiencies, you'll have to find a good quarterback and some wide receivers. There's really no secret here. In other words, increase the talent.

I've always thought we could innovate by develop a lot of offensive linemen. Having two full units who could just road grade the entire game. Would need to keep about 20 on the roster and balance the classes.

Yes. But the point of my original post was that our strengths "over time" are irrelevant. First, because playing to those strengths will not get us above .500 in the SEC, unless we actually could develop an OL roster like you describe (spoiler alert: not gonna happen). Second, if we hire a coach who is capable of executing a successful passing attack, then the QBs and WRs will follow, and we won't have to worry about the types of players we recruited in the past.

 

[Seinfeld]

One of my biggest concerns with recruiting is that this offense desperately needs high profile receivers to be successful, yet look at the lack of progress of the guys that Moorhead has pulled in during the last 2 classes. Guidry, Payton, Jason...

This will 100% be used against him during the coming months

 

[The Situation]

Yes. But the point of my original post was that our strengths "over time" are irrelevant. First, because playing to those strengths will not get us above .500 in the SEC, unless we actually could develop an OL roster like you describe (spoiler alert: not gonna happen). Second, if we hire a coach who is capable of executing a successful passing attack, then the QBs and WRs will follow, and we won't have to worry about the types of players we recruited in the past.

MSU recruiting linemen the way I would like, is far more likelier than MSU recruiting the QBs and WRs we need to launch an air raid offense. Put the meth down.

 

[engie]

Either our talent level is pitiful or our O line coach sucks.

Or maybe it's schematic.

I remember thinking how Penn St accomplished all that they did under Moorhead with a "terrible" OL that when they ran up against a buzzsaw(read, SEC level) defense, McSorley didn't have time to do anything. Now that same issue has followed him to MSU -- where we know what the talent level has been. Maybe these guys need to actually know what to do on occasion rather than trying to both run block and pass block while guessing what the QB is going to do/what the read is?

Even then, the OL is still good to elite in many metrics. The one we saw a huge dropoff in under Moorhead is sack rate and all of the advanced stats off of that. We saw it get far worse last year in what was an ELITE OL otherwise, and this year it's among the worst in the country. Here are the advanced OL stats: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaol/2019

 

[engie]

One of my biggest concerns with recruiting is that this offense desperately needs high profile receivers to be successful, yet look at the lack of progress of the guys that Moorhead has pulled in during the last 2 classes. Guidry, Payton, Jason...

This will 100% be used against him during the coming months

Receiver help is on the way, for better or worse. I agree that the ones here have been disappointing all the way across the board.

 

[philduckworth]

agree, I mean 2 guys from last year's O-line are STARTING in the NFL.

We had 5 guys on last year's team who are starters in the NFL as rookies. And we went 8-5. Amazing.

 

[Dawgzilla]

I never asked for an air raid offense. All I said was we can look for a more pass-oriented spread and not be so focused on establishing a conservative ground game. Get a good dual threat QB (which we pretty much already have), and run the type of offense that successful playoff teams are currently running, and which I thought JoMo was bringing with him.

 

[The Situation]

I never asked for an air raid offense. All I said was we can look for a more pass-oriented spread and not be so focused on establishing a conservative ground game. Get a good dual threat QB (which we pretty much already have), and run the type of offense that successful playoff teams are currently running, and which I thought JoMo was bringing with him.

Did you like the offense in 2014 and 2015? There was nothing conservative about those, and we were running a run-based spread. Not so much 2015, but it was still Mullen's offense, and that makes my point more. The offensive scheme only takes you so far, then players take you the rest of the way.

 

[Dawgzilla]

I cannot fully answer that, but part of the equation is the defense has to respect the deep ball at all times. If we connected on a few more of those throws, I don't think we would all be complaining so much. On 3rd and 7, if the Safety moves in to defend the run, then the QB is supposed to be looking for receivers that are flowing to the spot the Safety has left unguarded. Depending on the play call, the QB is supposed to chunk it if the deep man is 1-on-1. It is not always the QB's first option, but the idea is to let the defense know it is always going to be an option. Eventually the Safety won't step up to defend the run, and we either run it or throw a shorter pass.

In theory.

 

[Dawgzilla]

No. I never liked Mullen's offense. It was too limiting, and too dangerous for QBs.

Of course players take you the rest of the way....this thread was a question about our offensive identity, and all I'm saying is we do not have to stick with what we have had in the past, unless we are all satisfied with being at the bottom end of the Top 25.

 

[oxfordrebel22]

Been discussed ad nauseum but I’m not an ******* like Nunya so here goes:

- Run based, attacking offense with road grading linemen and dual threat quarterback
- Fundamentally sound coaching style
- Deep defensive line and line backing groups

This takes advantage of the type of talent MS produces and assures we play a physical brand of football.

To rise to the elite level, we have to get a dual threat quarterback that can throw at Dak’s level.

In other words, what Mullen did but improve the recruiting slightly. Or what Sherrill did but actually have a talented quarterback.

We were close under Mullen. If he had closed on a handful more top players, and hired a real OC so he didn’t make stupid in game decisions, we’d have gotten there. His recruiting logistics were exactly what we needed.

He’s right, because this is exactly what OM fans hope you don’t do. Not only does this maximize State’s talent resources, but it’s the opposite of the way the current OM program is ran. Meaning that State would have even stronger than normal chances of landing the players needed to execute this system.

However, Mullen also had the luxury of a patient fanbase that allowed him to sign talented 3-Star MS kids and redshirt them and build the program from the ground up. Those 4th year Junior’s and 5th year Senior’s that had a chip on their shoulder were tough as hell. I’m not sure the next coach will get that same luxury, based on the way Mullen raised expectations. (Moorhead didn’t get the luxury - but he also didn’t deserve it. He took over a Top 5-6 SEC roster.)

 

[sandwolf.sixpack]

OK for the sake of this discussion Cohen gets a pass because blah blah blah....NOW do you let him make the next hire ?

Honestly, yes I would. Like I said, I thought he did a great job managing the coaching search and I like where his head was at with the Moorhead hire. I think he was going for another Mullen, except better at recruiting. It obviously didn't work out, but I wouldn't have a problem with giving him another go at it.