Bo Bounds asked that question this morning. I say 5-2. I'm not sure if Stevens brought enough to the table after he was injured and he wasn't mobile enough.
If Keytaon was starting - what would be our record?
- Thread starter dawgstudent
- Start date
We don't have enough info to answer that question. I know that's a copout, but KT played in this offense against SFA (and his passing wasn't great), and that 1 horrendous series against A&M last year. That's all we have. I think I know what you're going with here, that some consistency at the QB position might have translated into wins against K-State and UT, but I think there is a reason KT is so far down the depth chart right now. For all we know, we could have lost to Kentucky if KT was our starter.
IF I have to answer, then I think our record would be the same. I also think Shrader would have come in whenever KT struggled, and, assuming KT was healthy, we would have a full blown QB controversy going on.
IF I have to answer, then I think our record would be the same. I also think Shrader would have come in whenever KT struggled, and, assuming KT was healthy, we would have a full blown QB controversy going on.
We’ve had 4 different QB’s start a game in this regime, and the offense has yet to look good against any defense with a pulse. I’m not sure who the QB is really matters. And I frankly don’t think KT brings anything to the table that Shrader doesn’t. They are similar runners and Shrader is pretty clearly a more efficient passer.
I was excited about Tommy but yes...in hindsight bad mistake. I think he may have fractured that locker room too. I know he was welcomed supposedly. And Joe is the coach and knows and sees more than me but damn I wish I could watch KT and Mayden in practice. Are they really that bad ?? Guess so.
It was, and those who refused to recognize at least the possibility of it being a mistake were being extremely naive
Let’s go through the steps.
1. We blame last year’s entire offensive ineptitude on the school’s second best best QB in program history
2. In spite of having two highly rated QBs on the roster waiting their turn, Joe decides he can’t use either of them
3. Joe goes after one grad transfer(Kelly Bryant) who ultimately says no thanks.
4. Joe goes after a second grad transfer(Tommy Stevens) with 41 career passes who ends up coming aboard 3 months before kickoff
5. After “competing” for the job over the summer, Stevens is handed the keys
This outcome may not have been obvious, but I do not agree with anyone claiming that you needed a Hubble telescope to have seen a bad scenario
Let’s go through the steps.
1. We blame last year’s entire offensive ineptitude on the school’s second best best QB in program history
2. In spite of having two highly rated QBs on the roster waiting their turn, Joe decides he can’t use either of them
3. Joe goes after one grad transfer(Kelly Bryant) who ultimately says no thanks.
4. Joe goes after a second grad transfer(Tommy Stevens) with 41 career passes who ends up coming aboard 3 months before kickoff
5. After “competing” for the job over the summer, Stevens is handed the keys
This outcome may not have been obvious, but I do not agree with anyone claiming that you needed a Hubble telescope to have seen a bad scenario
I think we could potentially be 4-3 with KT, or if Tommy never got hurt, or if Garrett had started from day one. The constant shuffling and splitting no1 practice reps has to have had an impact because our margin of error is so thin. I thought our offense did enough to beat Kansas State, but our defense and special teams let us down.
With that said, I think we could be 3-4 with all as well because we are generally unprepared, undisciplined and do not play with the level of precision required to execute against average defenses or on the road against anyone. The UT loss is squarely on the coaches having a **** plan on offense and not having the team ready to play after a bye week.
With that said, I think we could be 3-4 with all as well because we are generally unprepared, undisciplined and do not play with the level of precision required to execute against average defenses or on the road against anyone. The UT loss is squarely on the coaches having a **** plan on offense and not having the team ready to play after a bye week.
Pretty damning when you look at it like that.
All I have heard about Moorhead is that he was like, "Wait until Shrader gets here". So I don't know why he tried to go out and find another guy to replace Thompson. Just roll with it and then you could have at least kept the 'I need my QB' narrative.
The guy has just made every bad decision you could make this year. He's trying, though.
You make a good point about Shrader. If Joe had known that he’d be ready to lead the offense this year, he probably still takes a shot at Bryant, but I’m not so sure about Stevens.
At that point, the only issue is that if Shrader went down, he’d be forced to go back to one of two guys that Joe clearly has zero confidence in. Not to say that it wouldn’t have worked, but I doubt we’d be getting either KT’s or Mayden’s best effort
People can justify all of this like they’ve been doing for a year now, but when you typically only carry 3 legit QBs on a roster to begin with, Joe’s inability to utilize two of them was always going to be a problem for us. It frankly would have taken a semi-miracle for all of this to have seamlessly worked out
At that point, the only issue is that if Shrader went down, he’d be forced to go back to one of two guys that Joe clearly has zero confidence in. Not to say that it wouldn’t have worked, but I doubt we’d be getting either KT’s or Mayden’s best effort
People can justify all of this like they’ve been doing for a year now, but when you typically only carry 3 legit QBs on a roster to begin with, Joe’s inability to utilize two of them was always going to be a problem for us. It frankly would have taken a semi-miracle for all of this to have seamlessly worked out
When you think about like this, Moorheads' mishandling the QB situation alone tells you the guy is in waaay over his head.
I will stand by statement from roughly a year ago when I said that any coach that cannot figure out how to effectively utilize the 2nd best career QB in school history, a 5th ranked dual threat from ‘17, or another 4-star dual threat from ‘18 is not an offensive savant. They’re inept
Yeah but a lot of those never kept Shrader’s shoulder issue in mind. His shoulder was still weak his senior year. It looked better as the season went along and in our spring but it was a concern you had to keep in mind. Along with if he could handle the game speed as a freshman in the SEC. That was a big unknown
5-2 and we don't suffer such an embarrassment at Auburn, either. Inviting an outsider in to take control is always risky business. It worked out at Oklahoma with Jalen Hurts, but that's an exceptional case. The team identity was lost when KT was benched. Shrader has played well, but KT could have produced those same runs and about the same passing success. The suspensions hurt, too, but the defense shouldn't have been that soft. Lafayette ran up over 400 yards on us in the season opener.
Probably the same or worse. I think Shrader is better personally. Obviously Stevens didn’t work but I can’t fault Joe for bringing in someone that he was familiar with to run his offense who didn’t work out in large part because he got hurt.
The good news is there are 100 more things that Joe has screwed up that I can point to since I want him gone yesterday.
The good news is there are 100 more things that Joe has screwed up that I can point to since I want him gone yesterday.
I posted this b4, right after we signed TS, and will say again...that first game in Joe's system vs SFA should be viewed in context. Not only every offensive position still learning it and trying in live action for the first time, but Joe clearly
having decided going into that game he was going to force the pass, no matter what.
Thing is, we don't know if Stevens didn't work out because he got hurt or because he's just like Moorhead, good against teams that suck and sucks against teams that are at least halfway decent. I didn't blame him for bringing him in, but it obviously backfired on him badly.
3 of 9 current undefeated Top 20 teams picked up a QB in the transfer portal this year. Hurts, Fields, Buechele. Last year Burrow and Minshew transferred and won big. The playoffs may end up with 3 out of 4 teams having a starting QB from the transfer portal.
R
RPOdawg
Guest
3-4. QB play hasn’t lost us a game and KT wouldn’t have done anything more to overcome our other shortcomings to win us a game.
Yeah bringing in Stevens isn’t a bad decision IMO. He was a senior, that was familiar with the offense. He had some decent potential, and honesty looked pretty good until he got hurt. Look how many guys from the transfer portal have worked so far. Of corse it went as badly as possible at Mississippi State. This was absolutely the worse possible case scenario and I was the reality.
Where Joe screwed up, was that he didn’t see that it wasn’t going to work until it was far too late. Shrader should have been handed the keys fully after KSU. He 100% without a doubt should have been the starter after Auburn. It was really clear Stevens wasn’t the guy then. Yet, he tried the experiment once again vs UT and it failed miserably.
I’m not saying it changes any outcome, but I think Shrader gives us the best chance to win IMO.
Where Joe screwed up, was that he didn’t see that it wasn’t going to work until it was far too late. Shrader should have been handed the keys fully after KSU. He 100% without a doubt should have been the starter after Auburn. It was really clear Stevens wasn’t the guy then. Yet, he tried the experiment once again vs UT and it failed miserably.
I’m not saying it changes any outcome, but I think Shrader gives us the best chance to win IMO.
not 100% certain. the offense has been terrible pretty much no matter who is qb. garrett is beast, but the offense is still pretty much ranked in the 100yrs. Garrett is better passing. Keytaon is probably a better runner. It depends on if Moorhead would have just chunked the playbook. considering he hasn't chunked his playbook and scheme, i really don't think it would have better. Not to mentioned the whole team discipline and effort would have been the same under K State and Tenneesee. They looked pretty uninspiring in the spring game earlier this year. KT looked way better under the previous regime. i'm not sure he looks any better that Shrader or Stevens under this regime. I'm not convince Moorhead or Breiner are great QB coaches or QB developers. I think they can only work with highly talented kids instead of developing average qb's or dual threat average qb's in to great college qbs. I think the kids under them have to already be a pretty special qb.
Not entirely true. Looked pretty good until Stevens got hurt. We moved the ball on Kansas State and Tennessee too until the injury had him sailing the ball and throwing high.
Bottom line, have to be able to throw to run the offense, unless we just have better personnel.
The exact same. On 4th and 1 we'd still be out of the gun faking jet sweeps
and running up the middle giving defenses time to file their taxes and write a letter back home to their folks. To be honest, I can't see any QB anywhere in this conference excelling in this offense. Defenses are too fast and disguise themselves much better in our part of the country.
and running up the middle giving defenses time to file their taxes and write a letter back home to their folks. To be honest, I can't see any QB anywhere in this conference excelling in this offense. Defenses are too fast and disguise themselves much better in our part of the country.
Last edited:
This. We could have Prescott back and I don't think our record would be any better.
Agreed. Shrader gives me hope that one day we can get back to regularly beating the doldrums of the SEC, but it’s not like we’re going to suddenly start churning out 40 pts/gm next year.
We’ve been told for two years that this is an offense that will have some firepower behind it once it starts rolling, but we weren’t even getting that against UT.
We’ve been told for two years that this is an offense that will have some firepower behind it once it starts rolling, but we weren’t even getting that against UT.
This is one of many things that told me Moorhead was a fraud. If you couldn’t use that qb room we had you aren’t the offensive you claim to be. We had one of the rates highest dual threat qb roomS in the country. JoMo said nope can’t use that we gonna go Xbox and sling it down field.
That's something I hadn't really thought much about. How do you not find a way to utilize the strengths of the best QB depth state has ever had. They may not be the downfield bomb throwing QBs Moorhead wanted, but they can make plays and be effective.
I don’t mean to be argumentative, but I keep reading comments about how Joe’s offense worked well until this or that, and aside from a quarter and a half against USM, it just hasn’t been true.
Against K State, Tommy was 7-15 while accounting for 105 total yds of offense, 2 TDs and 2 Ints. If you want to add Kylin’s yards to the mix, then we got about 160 yds of total offense while Tommy was in the game which would be good #115 in the country. Digging a little deeper, you also have to remember that we went on a miracle 66 yd, 31 second scoring drive at the end the end of the half. In other words, aside from that, we got a whopping 100 yds of offense in an entire half of football against KSU at home.
Against UT, it was actually even worse as Tommy was 6/11 while accounting for 93 total yds of offense, 0 TDs and 2 Ints. As Kylin was also completely ineffective, that would have been good for one of the worst offensive outputs in the entire country.
I’m not trying to dog on Tommy by any means. It’s just that there has been virtually no scenario in two years where Joe’s offense has actually worked against anything other than garbage. Shrader’s ability to run does give us an extra dynamic that we were missing earlier this year, but that’s about the only positive out there until Joe either lands some premier talent or makes some serious changes
Against K State, Tommy was 7-15 while accounting for 105 total yds of offense, 2 TDs and 2 Ints. If you want to add Kylin’s yards to the mix, then we got about 160 yds of total offense while Tommy was in the game which would be good #115 in the country. Digging a little deeper, you also have to remember that we went on a miracle 66 yd, 31 second scoring drive at the end the end of the half. In other words, aside from that, we got a whopping 100 yds of offense in an entire half of football against KSU at home.
Against UT, it was actually even worse as Tommy was 6/11 while accounting for 93 total yds of offense, 0 TDs and 2 Ints. As Kylin was also completely ineffective, that would have been good for one of the worst offensive outputs in the entire country.
I’m not trying to dog on Tommy by any means. It’s just that there has been virtually no scenario in two years where Joe’s offense has actually worked against anything other than garbage. Shrader’s ability to run does give us an extra dynamic that we were missing earlier this year, but that’s about the only positive out there until Joe either lands some premier talent or makes some serious changes
Latest
-
01
Maroon and White
Mississippi State Week 9 Preview: Lebby Offense vs. Texas Defense
-
02
Maroon and White Football
Steve Sarkisian, Texas prepping for "Jeff Lebby offense" regardless of QB situation
-
03
Maroon and White
Mississippi State Depth Chart lists Puckett OR Swann at QB1
-
04
Maroon and White Football
Everything Steve Sarkisian said about facing Mississippi State
-
05
Maroon and White
Mississippi State Week 9 Preview: Texas Players to Know