I hate to say it but I think I must buy. Croom was a special kind of awful. Yes I remember the maine but he inherited a cratered program fresh on three years probation that he utterly failed to elevate, but did manage to somehow organically raise it to win 8 games one season. Joe was handed a program fresh off 9 straight bowl appearances, consistently ranked, a newly expanded stadium, good fan support, a team stocked with NFL talent on D, an experienced offense with a veteran QB and he managed to ruin it in less than two years.
Buy/Sell: Croom>JoeMo....
- Thread starter thekimmer
- Start date
Bama in the mid 2000’s is the essentially what Kentucky is right now. Granted, not even sure Joe would’ve even beaten those Shula teams after Saturday.
Croom was worse schematically but he was an infinitely better head coach.
The players respected him & he had discipline.
Both are awful, but due to how Croom ran the program, after 5 years Mullen had something to work with. If we keep Moorhead for 5 years, the next coach will have a complete dumpster fire to deal with
The players respected him & he had discipline.
Both are awful, but due to how Croom ran the program, after 5 years Mullen had something to work with. If we keep Moorhead for 5 years, the next coach will have a complete dumpster fire to deal with
There's some serious revisionist history going here. How many players were arrested during the Croom era? It was like double digits.
It’s sad we’re at a point where we can legitimately debate this.
Croom may have been a better “mentor to young men” than JoMo... but he was a horrible head football coach. Joe may sound like a better x’s and o’s guy but he obviously doesn’t connect with the players as well as Croom and has no control over the team. Maybe if you could mix the best of both you’d get a decent coach - but they both appear to be overly stubborn to the point they’ll both end up being coaches fired by MSU. So I’m not sure even a coach with the best qualities from both would survive as a head coach.
Croom may have been a better “mentor to young men” than JoMo... but he was a horrible head football coach. Joe may sound like a better x’s and o’s guy but he obviously doesn’t connect with the players as well as Croom and has no control over the team. Maybe if you could mix the best of both you’d get a decent coach - but they both appear to be overly stubborn to the point they’ll both end up being coaches fired by MSU. So I’m not sure even a coach with the best qualities from both would survive as a head coach.
For me its a question of who to date did the most with what they were given. Croom was given a sow's ear and didn't do much to transform it into anything else. Argument could be made that their wasn't anywhere to go for him but up and I get that. Joe was given a silk purse (in MSU terms) and proceeded to turn it into a sows ear. It really is a sad day I suppose when we are left to debate who did it worse.
Yeah, these arguments are crazy, but there's always somebody willing to make them. Croom had discipline problems of his own, and Alabama sucked back then.
Three's a reason almost every program Croom beat ended up firing their coach.
Nobrainer sell. I think the anger over the current situation is hindering some memories. Croom was way worse.
This is like debating which smell would be better in your house.. rat piss or dog crap.
Moorhead inherited the '39 Yankees compared to what Croom stepped into. Croom went 3-8, 3-8 his first two years but Moorhead wouldn't have done any better and probably wouldn't have won the game over #20 Florida.
Moorhead inherited the '39 Yankees compared to what Croom stepped into. Croom went 3-8, 3-8 his first two years but Moorhead wouldn't have done any better and probably wouldn't have won the game over #20 Florida.
I'm not saying nothing happened under Croom's watch, but he inherited a program fraught with discipline issues. He had to yank some scholarships in a couple of cases, but he did his best to restore order. And Bama may have been down by their standards in those years, but they were still Bama.
Croom was quick to blame Sherrill's discipline problems and get rid of Sherrill's old players. But he didn't do the same thing with his own. Sylvester Croom was a hypocrite in that way.
And Bama sucked in those days. They went 6-6 both years we beat them. In 2006 they barely beat Hawaii and in 2007 they lost to Louisiana Monroe.
Getting Croomed was an actual term the media used for coaches that were fired for losing to Croom.
Until Moorhead gets to that level of ****, Croom is worse.
Until Moorhead gets to that level of ****, Croom is worse.
No kidding. And it wasn’t just driving with suspended license type **** either. We had one guy firing a pistol on campus.
Croom also beat Nick Saban. I know he beat Nick Saban with Mike Shula's players but he still beat Nick Saban.
Absolutely. Croom had more players arrested in 5 years than Sherrill had in 13. The character of this teams was no better than anything before or after his tenure.
Maybe, but I don't see Joe fielding a team that will ever be able to pull one of those wins off.
It’s like people didn’t even watch the games, they just watched the 30 for 30 and bought what Croom said of himself.
Croom was a horrendous coach. No order, no discipline, no coherent strategy. We had a delay of game on the first offensive play of the season! We had delays of game penalties nearly every single game. The man took off for vacation a while month a year. Where were you people.
Croom is easily the worst MSU coach since integration. Easily. He was horrible. Get out of here with this nonsense.
Croom was a horrendous coach. No order, no discipline, no coherent strategy. We had a delay of game on the first offensive play of the season! We had delays of game penalties nearly every single game. The man took off for vacation a while month a year. Where were you people.
Croom is easily the worst MSU coach since integration. Easily. He was horrible. Get out of here with this nonsense.
Beating two 6-6 Bama teams, including one coached by Saban, while trying to breathe life into a dead program goes a long way in my book. Yes, Croom had to deal with some knuckleheads on his watch, but he was a far better head coach than Moorhead. If he had the talent and situation to start with that JoMo did, his legacy would have been different.
If a legitimate comparison can be made between them, then Vroom Croom will be Moorhead’s limo driver out of Starkville.
Shmuley’s right. November 2020.
Shmuley’s right. November 2020.
Sell in mass quantities - there was some talent at MSU when Croom arrived & he was determined to play his guys. Croom ran off too many players. He could have been mediocre if adapted his offense somewhat for Omar. Omar may have been a Heisman contender in Mullen's offense. Croom also had more discipline issues than JWS or Mullen. It also appears than Moorhead is recruiting at a much higher level than Croom although he may have HELL holding this class together. Moorhead is just a moron is preparation, discipline, & possibly conditioning where Croom was incompetent in every area of the job.
My my...how people forget just how truly terrible Croom was...
Coach Joe has royally **** the bed for sure, but come on.. He is no where near Croom bad.
In case anyone has forgotten, or they've eaten up the BS positive love affair the media had with Coach Croom:
WL and Offensive ranking:
2004: 3-8, 117/120
2005: 3-8, 114/119
2006: 3-9, 97/119
2007: 8-5, 97/120
2008: 4-8, 116/120
Coach Joe has royally **** the bed for sure, but come on.. He is no where near Croom bad.
In case anyone has forgotten, or they've eaten up the BS positive love affair the media had with Coach Croom:
WL and Offensive ranking:
2004: 3-8, 117/120
2005: 3-8, 114/119
2006: 3-9, 97/119
2007: 8-5, 97/120
2008: 4-8, 116/120
For real. If Croom coached this team, we’d be 1-5.
Croom did nothing mediocre. His coaching was abysmal in every aspect.
EDIT: And it’s worse than losing 8 games per season. It’s how badly we were beaten in those 40 (FORTY) losses.
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I'll defend him here, in this direct comparison to Moorhead. I never saw a Croom team get two delay of games on its first offensive series and fall behind 21-0 in the first quarter! I never saw him create a QB controversy and then further mismanage it the way Moorhead has done. Croom's pedigree as an All-American and national championship player alone made him a far better head coach than this impostor we've hired now, and I don't have to wait four years to come to that conclusion.
Croom was a center. And Croom did all of those things you listed above. He also lost to Maine, in case you forgot.
I'm not defending Moorhead. But Croom is the biggest stain on an MSU football program full of them.
Croom absolutely got down 21-0 in the first quarter. Remember the 2008 Egg Bowl? His final game it was 24-0 in the first. We had 37 TOTAL yards in that game by the way. He also completely created a QB controversy between Wesley Carroll and Tyson Lee in the 2008 season. After Carroll played pretty well (by Croom QB standards) in 2007 and we won eight games, all of a sudden he starts splitting time with Lee. Which led to four wins in 2008. I don’t care how good of a player he was, Croom was a terrible coach, full stop.
Okay. If nothing else, I've learned to check my facts closer before I post. I have to take my hat off to you and some of the others here who have kept me straight in that regard today.
But doggone it, I stand by my contention that Sylvester Croom knew more about football than Joe Moorhead ever will. That's my opinion, and I have absolutely no facts to support it. Tear it down, but please don't ruin it.
Croom was the worst coach in our programs history. Nothing he did was good. Even the things people here think was positive from Croom like mentoring young men and discipline was a fallacy. People only think that because that's what Croom told people he was doing. He did an awful job at everything.
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